The far red thread

salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
...sorry for my offtopic posts here and this extension,,,



...el espectroscopio de Public lab es barato y no le puedes exigir exactitud pero hace su ayuda...ole por ellos...
...tambien pienso que en la interpretacion de la imagen obtenida con el de public lab se puede haber avanzado y tener mas precision en los calibrajes... es software...y he estado fuera mucho... por lo que no dudo hayan habido avances...

este debo mirarlo mejor...es nuevo para mi...



...me gusta la idea sin software del theremino como un raton usb....
....debo seguir mirando cosillas sobre lo del tratamiento de imagenes digitales que esto vuela...joer...
....y software como sospechaba antes...

Pd,... is theremino her name... and thanks to RIU por permitirme hacer some things.... my bad english...

Saludos
 
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end_of_the_tunnel

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
They tell you to calibrate wavelengths using a CFL, because of it's know peaks. Then you can "calibrate" intensity by using a know light source. Like with one of those tungsten calibration bulbs.

I checked an Osram the 730nm led and this looked to actually peak around 715nm.
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Calibration for wavelength is trivial. But are you saying you have a means to accurately calibrate for intensity using tools like SpectralWorkbench or thermino?

If so please share details.
 
salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member



...estos los vi hoy... perdon es que estoy actualizandome mi vieja info


...faltaria añadirle la thermal cam a este ultimo.... mi dreamed cam multi-vision predator style....:fire:

y seguimientos de cultivo dia y noche de principio a fin con la predator multivision.... y si es un video acelerado lo flipo....

...ahi teneis un diy por hacer cojonudo ....una predator multivision cam estilo theremino.... sin software... como un raton....

Saludos
 
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CannaLED

Member
end_of_the_tunnel said:
Have not double checked your maths, but for simplicitys sake would say use the 6mins from lights out withought trying to straddle 3 mins either side of the main lights off. Right after lights off has reportedly worked for others here.
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Thanks Bro , actually I wanna increase my ield , by giving them more light , so some of you guys , could give some advice about a l light schedule to my plants , I was thought to give them 12/12 on the 1-2 weeks and than give 13,5/10,5 or 14/10 for the 3-4-5 week ,and comeback to 12/12 and decrease to 11/13 on the last week , what do you think guys ?
 
salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member




...sigue faltando la thermal cam pov.... estoy hablando de video cams cuando me refiero a las predator style...

...sobre video cam... ...parece una thermal cam pero tambien me gusto la idea....



ya no os molesto mas... aaadios

Saludos
 
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Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
CannaLED said:
Thanks Bro , actually I wanna increase my ield , by giving them more light , so some of you guys , could give some advice about a l light schedule to my plants , I was thought to give them 12/12 on the 1-2 weeks and than give 13,5/10,5 or 14/10 for the 3-4-5 week ,and comeback to 12/12 and decrease to 11/13 on the last week , what do you think guys ?
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It will be hard to say how that would affect finishing time. One way off upping yield is just making sure it runs for longer without ripening completely. 10 weeks is going to give more bud than 8.
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
end_of_the_tunnel said:
Calibration for wavelength is trivial. But are you saying you have a means to accurately calibrate for intensity using tools like SpectralWorkbench or thermino?

If so please share details.
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Yes, I'm saying you take the spectrum of a Tungsten calibration bulb (which are generally used for calibrating spectrometers). Then you can compare that spectrum measurement to the known spectrum of that bulb. Which then gives you a correction curve which you can apply to all your measurements.
 
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end_of_the_tunnel

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
Yes, I'm saying you take the spectrum of a Tungsten calibration bulb (which are generally used for calibrating spectrometers). Then you can compare that spectrum measurement to the known spectrum of that bulb. Which then gives you a correction curve which you can apply to all your measurements.
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It is not possible to calibrate for intensity with either spectralworkbench or theremino. That was why I was surprised when you mentioned it was so possible, and asked you for details. Again calibrating for wavelength is trivial. Units of intensity with those two software tools. No.

Possible with better software such as Spectragryph. But then we need a calibrated source and that is not cheap. And trashes the whole point of diy and affordability. Long and short of it, diy spec is good for confirming presence of specific wavelengths. Thats it.

Again, the maths behind thread tool, from Alesh, is a more fruitful option.
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
end_of_the_tunnel said:
It is not possible to calibrate for intensity with either spectralworkbench or theremino.
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Like I explained, it is possible. You need to manually apply the Tungsten calibration. So yes it's not in the tool, but it's used with data from the tool

That spreadsheet is 100% manual. And it does exactly the same by applying a correction curve.

Even then you only get some vague estimate based on the given SPD. Which seem to not be 100% accurate either. Then you still don't know the specific efficacy of the led you are using. It might be a different bin from the tested one.
 
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end_of_the_tunnel

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
Like I explained, it is possible. You need to manually apply the Tungsten calibration. So yes it's not in the tool, but it's used with data from the tool

That spreadsheet is 100% manual. And it does exactly the same by applying a correction curve.

Even then you only get some vague estimate based on the given SPD. Which seem to not be 100% accurate either. Then you still don't know the specific efficacy of the led you are using. It might be a different bin from the tested one.
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Are you actually familiar with spectralworkbench and theremino? You repeatedly provide a generic answer not applicable to these particular pieces of software. Don't make claims based on theory that is only applicable to commercial grade software for use in industry and institions of learning.

Poppycock and piffle.
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
end_of_the_tunnel said:
Poppycock and piffle.
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You might not be able to understand how to apply this, but if you understand how Alesh's excel sheet works, then this works the same way. you have two SPD's and you apply them to get a correction.

They sell these Tungsten lights specifically for calibrating spectrometers.
You are being redirected...

It's ridiculously expensive and completely insane to do something like this with a cheap and hardly functioning webcam spectrometer, but still. It can be done if you must.

Besides I have stated every time that it is a manual process on the data from spectralworkbench. I never claimed it's integrated in that tool.
 
SSGrower

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
Thank you @salmonetin for bringing uv to the converstion. My spanish is worse than your english.

IMO leaving both red and uv on for full day is the best way to mitigate the negative impacts of each. Further the advantage by adjusting intensity throughout the day.
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
CannaLED said:
Thanks Bro , actually I wanna increase my ield , by giving them more light , so some of you guys , could give some advice about a l light schedule to my plants , I was thought to give them 12/12 on the 1-2 weeks and than give 13,5/10,5 or 14/10 for the 3-4-5 week ,and comeback to 12/12 and decrease to 11/13 on the last week , what do you think guys ?
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I've been doing 12/12 first 1-2 weeks then 13.5/10.5 and back to 12/12 the last 1-2 weeks for years, shortens my flower time and increases yield.
 
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end_of_the_tunnel

Well-Known Member
Moflow said:

Would there be an "ideal spectrum" to use for under, intra canopy lighting as you already have far red and green down there?

On a side note any thoughts on these spectrums I found perusing the internet?
They look interesting but I can't find much information on them.
Probably very expensive......
View attachment 4596027
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I like your question. We have all seen the videos and data on the "effect" that foliage has on filtering light components out as it travels from canopy, top to bottom. I guess a grower has to decide what they want to achieve with added intra canopy lighting. More effective delivery of given wattage? Modulation of flowering characteristics, attempt to chunk up the lowers etc?

I would probably attempt with something in the range of 3000-4000K cct, as a means to lower overall wattage whilst getting light to the plants more effectively.
By adding intra canopy lighting, I am then reducing above canopy lighting levels. And so also levels of red and green filtering in from above.
I think you would have to experiment with your individual situation. Even generic 4K can have dramatic influence on the odd variety, creating disturbingly short plants.

What about buddies? This is where your examples above could make for an interesting proposition. A strip or bar product with your whites and red/far red on separate channels could be used in an attempt to modulate growth and final flower bulk.

@Moflow what results would you want to achieve by applying intra canopy lighting?
 
Moflow

Moflow

Well-Known Member
end_of_the_tunnel said:
I like your question. We have all seen the videos and data on the "effect" that foliage has on filtering light components out as it travels from canopy, top to bottom. I guess a grower has to decide what they want to achieve with added intra canopy lighting. More effective delivery of given wattage? Modulation of flowering characteristics, attempt to chunk up the lowers etc?

I would probably attempt with something in the range of 3000-4000K cct, as a means to lower overall wattage whilst getting light to the plants more effectively.
By adding intra canopy lighting, I am then reducing above canopy lighting levels. And so also levels of red and green filtering in from above.
I think you would have to experiment with your individual situation. Even generic 4K can have dramatic influence on the odd variety, creating disturbingly short plants.

What about buddies? This is where your examples above could make for an interesting proposition. A strip or bar product with your whites and red/far red on separate channels could be used in an attempt to modulate growth and final flower bulk.

@Moflow what results would you want to achieve by applying intra canopy lighting?
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The tomato industry, commercial greenhouses is where most of the research information is on intra canopy lighting.
I know cannabis isn't tomatoes lol
Seems to be they mostly use 450nm blue and 660nm
So with the far red already in the canopy from above perhaps the added 660nm produces the Emerson Effect at the middle, bottom of the plant producing bigger buds instead of larf?

Not very scientific but Im using side lighting on one plant at the moment to see if it works.
Top of plant gets 3000K, one side gets 30 watts, spectrum below
20200616_132213.png
and front side gets 30 watts of 2 x 660nm 1x 420nm and 1 x 395nm
Maybe it'll work, maybe not.....
 
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end_of_the_tunnel

Well-Known Member
Moflow said:
The tomato industry, commercial greenhouses is where most of the research information is on intra canopy lighting.
I know cannabis isn't tomatoes lol
Seems to be they mostly use 450nm blue and 660nm
So with the far red already in the canopy from above perhaps the added 660nm produces the Emerson Effect at the middle, bottom of the plant producing bigger buds instead of larf?

Not very scientific but Im using side lighting on one plant at the moment to see if it works.
Top of plant gets 3000K, one side gets 30 watts, spectrum below
View attachment 4596923
and front side gets 30 watts of 2 x 660nm 1x 420nm and 1 x 395nm
Maybe it'll work, maybe not.....
Click to expand...
Yes, their aim is supplementing daylight and encouraging fruiting. Look at how components of daylight shift. Compare noon with evening.
Spectrum_of_Sunlight_en.svg.png
It will be interesting to see how your plant responds. I wonder if it will react as a whole system. Or you will see like others have described. With different exposed areas displaying exploded and engorged buds. How tall is it now. Any flower set yet? Determinate or indeterminate. I used to know the difference but have forgotten. One you can pinch off to encourage more growth and fruiting, other not.
 
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