Pot black market isn't expected to disappear even as marijuana becomes legal

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/pot-cannabis-marijuana-illegal-1.4431419



Knowing a guy who knows a guy who gets you your pot: it's familiar, trusted and feels safe
New
Colin Perkel · The Canadian Press First published: December 04, 2017 at 9:48 AM ET
Last updated: December 04, 2017 at 9:48 AM ET 35 Minutes Ago


A man holds a joint between his lips during the annual 4-20 cannabis culture celebration at Sunset Beach in Vancouver on April 20. It seems clear that the illegal market is unlikely to disappear in a puff of smoke come legalization day. (Darryl Dyck/Canadian Press)

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From texting a local dealer to dropping into a neighbourhood dispensary or ordering online, Canada's black market for recreational marijuana has seen significant changes in recent years and, no doubt, will see more as the country hurtles toward a new world of legalization next summer.

What does seem clear, however, is that the illegal market is unlikely to disappear in a puff of smoke come legalization day.

"There's a huge, complex system out there operating in the world that has been delivering excellent product to people at reasonable prices for 40 years now," says Donald MacPherson, the executive director of the Canadian Drug Policy Coalition, an organization based out of Simon Fraser University that advocates for evidence-based policy-making and harm-reduction strategies.

"It's really the degree to which the regulated system can, over a period of years, encroach on as much of that pre-existing market as possible — that is the key question."


Websites now feature different cannabis products along with prices and, in some cases, testimonials, contests, specials, and freebies. (Jim Mone/Associated Press)

Talking to users quickly reveals three major strands that make up the current system, starting with the traditional approach: knowing a guy who knows a guy who gets you your pot. It's familiar, it's trusted, it feels safe.

More recently, street-level dispensaries have offered a somewhat normal retail store-front experience, though some offer only delivery, but perhaps the biggest change has been in what appears to be a very Canadian phenomenon: the burst of website-based mail-order marijuana suppliers, or MOMs as they are known.

A plethora of websites now feature different cannabis products along with prices and, in some cases, testimonials, contests, specials, and freebies. Most ask for proof of age in the form of an uploaded ID document — 18 or 19 is generally minimum — and payment takes place via Interac. The vacuum-packed product is shipped to the buyer via Canada Post or courier.

Francois, 34, an IT professional in Quebec City, says he now buys exclusively online.

"The convenience factor is what brought me there," says Francois, who like other users interviewed for this article only wants his first name used. "It's delivered to your doorstep. It's super easy, it's super discreet."


A young man smokes a joint during a rally in downtown Vancouver last April. Customer experience is also important. (Darryl Dyck/Canadian Press)

Marie-Helene, 26, a journalist in Montreal who smokes recreationally most evenings and weekends, says she doesn't expect much will change for her post legalization. She plans to stick with buying from a guy she knows who sells medical grade weed. She trusts him, she says, and she enjoys the personal touch — he knows what strains she likes — and what she calls their "professional-business relationship."

"It doesn't feel super shady," she says. "It probably sounds silly (but) it's the same thing as people who enjoy buying stuff in stores — because it's customer experience."

Robert, 55, an IT professional based in St. Catharines, Ont., a recreational user for decades, says he now has a medical prescription and can avoid a black market he believes was tied to organized crime. The illegal market is doomed over time, he says, because every gram sold legally is a gram the black market won't need to grow.

"Most of my friends can't wait to purchase legally and are quite jealous that I am currently able to do that," Robert says. "Friends who have more libertarian leanings swear they will never buy from the Ontario government (but) I bet that changes. People are lazy and follow the path of least resistance, so if they can buy a couple grams in the same shopping plaza that they are grocery shopping, they are going to do that."

Statistics Canada data indicate about 12 per cent of Canadians aged 15 and older — or 3.6 million of us — reported in 2015 having used cannabis in the previous year, with 840,000 saying they used it most every day.

Robert, however, says he thinks governments have hugely underestimated the prevalence of use and the Ontario government's plan, for example, to start out with 40 retail outlets is laughable.

"People don't honestly answer surveys about sex and drugs, so nobody really understands how big the market will be," Robert says. "I predict massive lines for legal weed next year."

Whether the black market shrinks and how quickly, observers say, will depend on what the legal market ends up looking like. It's far from clear. Each province is charting its own course, with some tending toward maximum restrictions in terms of retail outlets, while others talk of stiff criminal sanctions for selling product to underage buyers or near schools.

"These new laws are going to make the black market thrive," says Chad, 40, who produces edible cannabis products in Toronto. "The black market is really vast. It's really huge, right now, the competition."

The advent of dispensaries, he says, forced the black market to up its game in terms of quality and price. While the recent police crackdown on storefronts in Toronto has just pushed them underground, it has not dented what is a plentiful supply, he says. What Chad does believe is that many online sellers will go dark post-legalization.

"Being online is just a way to get caught," he says.

The challenge facing federal and provincial governments, says MacPherson of the Canadian Drug Policy Coalition, is the fact that the current system is so large, diverse and filled with expertise — in other words, it is mature.

Police concerned
Across Canada, hundreds if not thousands of small-scale growers along with some large grow-ops supply a seemingly ravenous consumer cohort that includes younger Canadians who have some of the highest usage rates in the world, according to various surveys.

Canada's police services, however, have expressed concern they won't be ready to enforce the new laws by next summer. They told a Commons committee earlier this year that among other things, they would need more time to train officers and increase the ranks of those certified to do roadside drug-impaired driving testing.

OPP Deputy Commissioner Rick Barnum warned that organized crime will flourish.

"Policing will not be ready to go Aug. 1," Barnum told the committee. "The damage that can be done between the time of new legislation and police officers ready to enforce the law in six months or a year can make it very, very hard to ever regain that foothold."

Enforcement is unlikely to make the illegal market go away, MacPherson says, but legalization does afford governments an opportunity to deploy policing resources elsewhere, and to make reliable public health information readily available as cannabis use becomes normalized in the way a glass of wine or beer already is.

Most importantly, he says, displacing well entrenched networks now used for selling and buying good quality pot from people users know will require hassle-free access.

"It's a really interesting and complex thing that the government is trying to do," MacPherson says. "It's trying to take a very robust, complex pre-existing market and basically put it out of business by coming up with a better robust market."
 

stoned-monkey

Well-Known Member
at best the black market could just be "legalized" but untaxed, as person-to-person sales are often hard to tax. that would probably not be on any governments agenda though.

ideal world everyone would have the freedom to grow the best smoke they can and sell it based on quality and market demand.

ever wonder why the products we buy today seem to have a shorter life span then back in the day? because of big money not caring about quality only dollars. so legal market will likely have some good smoke but the black market will (at least for awhile) have the highest quality, therefore not going away.

question for my northern neighbors, how are they planning/doing the roadside sobriety for marijuana? here in MI a few counties are doing salvia test, which will never work cause it to vague (counts days, maybe more, not hours since usage). also same touch your nose, walk a line etc drunk driving stuff (more reasonable)
 

HotWaterKarl

Well-Known Member
It's a shit show here they haven't even announced the device being used but had previously mentioned saliva testing. Ontario (a province akin to a state) has set the limits at 2 and 5 ng .....a limit I would go over even if I stopped my medication 5 days in advance before driving lol.
 

stoned-monkey

Well-Known Member
errrr..... wish policy makers would do their homework. honestly was hoping the Canadian government was better at planning then the US. I am still a little bewildered on how driving with prescription opioids in your system is fine (at least to the extant they don't test or don't even seem worried about making one). Its a new world I guess and it takes time to adjust, at least that's the excuse I will give them.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
No need to make excuses for those succeeding at what they intended. Which was a monopoly. They had no intentions in letting anyone into their "club"
I think is awesome when a shit business gets its shit jammed right bck up its asshole...
Its not like they weren't told ! :cool:
They never figured the courts would be involved in business ethics 101..

That's where they failed! and will continue to do so and will let us pay as they go!:finger: 8-)
 

Moldy

Well-Known Member
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/pot-cannabis-marijuana-illegal-1.4431419



Knowing a guy who knows a guy who gets you your pot: it's familiar, trusted and feels safe
New
Colin Perkel · The Canadian Press First published: December 04, 2017 at 9:48 AM ET
Last updated: December 04, 2017 at 9:48 AM ET 35 Minutes Ago


A man holds a joint between his lips during the annual 4-20 cannabis culture celebration at Sunset Beach in Vancouver on April 20. It seems clear that the illegal market is unlikely to disappear in a puff of smoke come legalization day. (Darryl Dyck/Canadian Press)

38 shares

38 comments

From texting a local dealer to dropping into a neighbourhood dispensary or ordering online, Canada's black market for recreational marijuana has seen significant changes in recent years and, no doubt, will see more as the country hurtles toward a new world of legalization next summer.

What does seem clear, however, is that the illegal market is unlikely to disappear in a puff of smoke come legalization day.

"There's a huge, complex system out there operating in the world that has been delivering excellent product to people at reasonable prices for 40 years now," says Donald MacPherson, the executive director of the Canadian Drug Policy Coalition, an organization based out of Simon Fraser University that advocates for evidence-based policy-making and harm-reduction strategies.

"It's really the degree to which the regulated system can, over a period of years, encroach on as much of that pre-existing market as possible — that is the key question."


Websites now feature different cannabis products along with prices and, in some cases, testimonials, contests, specials, and freebies. (Jim Mone/Associated Press)

Talking to users quickly reveals three major strands that make up the current system, starting with the traditional approach: knowing a guy who knows a guy who gets you your pot. It's familiar, it's trusted, it feels safe.

More recently, street-level dispensaries have offered a somewhat normal retail store-front experience, though some offer only delivery, but perhaps the biggest change has been in what appears to be a very Canadian phenomenon: the burst of website-based mail-order marijuana suppliers, or MOMs as they are known.

A plethora of websites now feature different cannabis products along with prices and, in some cases, testimonials, contests, specials, and freebies. Most ask for proof of age in the form of an uploaded ID document — 18 or 19 is generally minimum — and payment takes place via Interac. The vacuum-packed product is shipped to the buyer via Canada Post or courier.

Francois, 34, an IT professional in Quebec City, says he now buys exclusively online.

"The convenience factor is what brought me there," says Francois, who like other users interviewed for this article only wants his first name used. "It's delivered to your doorstep. It's super easy, it's super discreet."


A young man smokes a joint during a rally in downtown Vancouver last April. Customer experience is also important. (Darryl Dyck/Canadian Press)

Marie-Helene, 26, a journalist in Montreal who smokes recreationally most evenings and weekends, says she doesn't expect much will change for her post legalization. She plans to stick with buying from a guy she knows who sells medical grade weed. She trusts him, she says, and she enjoys the personal touch — he knows what strains she likes — and what she calls their "professional-business relationship."

"It doesn't feel super shady," she says. "It probably sounds silly (but) it's the same thing as people who enjoy buying stuff in stores — because it's customer experience."

Robert, 55, an IT professional based in St. Catharines, Ont., a recreational user for decades, says he now has a medical prescription and can avoid a black market he believes was tied to organized crime. The illegal market is doomed over time, he says, because every gram sold legally is a gram the black market won't need to grow.

"Most of my friends can't wait to purchase legally and are quite jealous that I am currently able to do that," Robert says. "Friends who have more libertarian leanings swear they will never buy from the Ontario government (but) I bet that changes. People are lazy and follow the path of least resistance, so if they can buy a couple grams in the same shopping plaza that they are grocery shopping, they are going to do that."

Statistics Canada data indicate about 12 per cent of Canadians aged 15 and older — or 3.6 million of us — reported in 2015 having used cannabis in the previous year, with 840,000 saying they used it most every day.

Robert, however, says he thinks governments have hugely underestimated the prevalence of use and the Ontario government's plan, for example, to start out with 40 retail outlets is laughable.

"People don't honestly answer surveys about sex and drugs, so nobody really understands how big the market will be," Robert says. "I predict massive lines for legal weed next year."

Whether the black market shrinks and how quickly, observers say, will depend on what the legal market ends up looking like. It's far from clear. Each province is charting its own course, with some tending toward maximum restrictions in terms of retail outlets, while others talk of stiff criminal sanctions for selling product to underage buyers or near schools.

"These new laws are going to make the black market thrive," says Chad, 40, who produces edible cannabis products in Toronto. "The black market is really vast. It's really huge, right now, the competition."

The advent of dispensaries, he says, forced the black market to up its game in terms of quality and price. While the recent police crackdown on storefronts in Toronto has just pushed them underground, it has not dented what is a plentiful supply, he says. What Chad does believe is that many online sellers will go dark post-legalization.

"Being online is just a way to get caught," he says.

The challenge facing federal and provincial governments, says MacPherson of the Canadian Drug Policy Coalition, is the fact that the current system is so large, diverse and filled with expertise — in other words, it is mature.

Police concerned
Across Canada, hundreds if not thousands of small-scale growers along with some large grow-ops supply a seemingly ravenous consumer cohort that includes younger Canadians who have some of the highest usage rates in the world, according to various surveys.

Canada's police services, however, have expressed concern they won't be ready to enforce the new laws by next summer. They told a Commons committee earlier this year that among other things, they would need more time to train officers and increase the ranks of those certified to do roadside drug-impaired driving testing.

OPP Deputy Commissioner Rick Barnum warned that organized crime will flourish.

"Policing will not be ready to go Aug. 1," Barnum told the committee. "The damage that can be done between the time of new legislation and police officers ready to enforce the law in six months or a year can make it very, very hard to ever regain that foothold."

Enforcement is unlikely to make the illegal market go away, MacPherson says, but legalization does afford governments an opportunity to deploy policing resources elsewhere, and to make reliable public health information readily available as cannabis use becomes normalized in the way a glass of wine or beer already is.

Most importantly, he says, displacing well entrenched networks now used for selling and buying good quality pot from people users know will require hassle-free access.

"It's a really interesting and complex thing that the government is trying to do," MacPherson says. "It's trying to take a very robust, complex pre-existing market and basically put it out of business by coming up with a better robust market."
We need a black market to keep the motherfuckers from totally ripping us off. Don't stop growing, double your crops!
 
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