I'm in the mood to abuse my plant

[whitebb2727]

How they look today

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Even if the one without leaves ends up being bigger it doesn't prove taking the leaves is what made it grow bigger.

 

[Xs121]

Even if the one without leaves ends up being bigger it doesn't prove taking the leaves is what made it grow bigger.

Agreed. It takes multiple repeat experiments until enough data is accumulated and can be analyzed

 

[whitebb2727]

Agreed. It takes multiple repeat experiments until enough data is accumulated and can be analyzed

No. It requires proper setup and controls to qualify as an expierment in the first place. Then it needs repeated.

The results from this mean absolutely nothing, even if repeated as is.

 

[Lucky Luke]

wth

So you deny this?
Lucky Luke said: ↑
I'm pretty sure there has been a few science studies on defoliated cannabis


If you are so sure why wont you share with us that science studies you are referring to?

I am pretty sure that there would of been scientific studies by one of the many countries and organisations over the hundreds or thousands of years that the plant has been commercially grown on defoliating- yes.



I have know idea why I keep replying to you....and it looks like you put me on ignore? haha troll but me on ignore??lmao
Have a nice grow.

 

[Buba Blend]

How they look today

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Still haven't said a new growers should not defoliate. Why not troll?

Shouldn't healthy plants be used in an experiment?
Why don't we change the topic. If you are going to experiment, let us help you with your plant problems.
They Have multiple issues.
Don't worry we can help.
Are there any links in the problem section we can read to see what went wrong with your grow?
If not we need to know.
What medium?
How often you watered?
What nutes you used?
Temp/humidity?
All other info you can think of to help us fix your growing problems.

 

[Xs121]

No. It requires proper setup and controls to qualify as an expierment in the first place. Then it needs repeated.

The results from this mean absolutely nothing, even if repeated as is.

Alright, fair enough though you didnt elaborate what you mean of proper setup and controls. What's interesting to me, now that the 1st week result is in, my process suddenly becomes questionable whereas no one have offered this very guideline in Day 1. I wonder if the 1st week result is reversed, is my experiment still means nothing? Interesting.

As to proper set-up and controls. I've tried to be fair under my circumstances and as I've pointed out, any biases(including phenotype) can be deemed insignificant if there's enough data to collaborate the result.

So you're saying that if this experiment is repeated a 100 times over by me or anybody and each time the defoliated plant is bigger the informal experiment still means nothing?

 

[Xs121]

I am pretty sure that there would of been scientific studies by one of the many countries and organisations over the hundreds or thousands of years that the plant has been commercially grown on defoliating- yes.



I have know idea why I keep replying to you....and it looks like you put me on ignore? haha troll but me on ignore??lmao
Have a nice grow.

So we will just accept your statement with blind faith and here you are demanding precision from my experiment.

Dude learn to check if a person is online or offline before you say I ignore you.

 

[Xs121]

Still haven't said a new growers should not defoliate

I dont have a reason to tell them not to. This topic is about an experiment in defoliation, why would it be part of my obligation to inform new growers not to defoliate? Secondly, there's plenty enough of anti-defoliation in this forum and I'm presuming that we are all adult here and intelligent enough that we're capable to search for answer/s that we need and make our own individual decision.

Shouldn't healthy plants be used in an experiment?
Why don't we change the topic. If you are going to experiment, let us help you with your plant problems.
They Have multiple issues.
Don't worry we can help.
Are there any links in the problem section we can read to see what went wrong with your grow?
If not we need to know.
What medium?
How often you watered?
What nutes you used?
Temp/humidity?
All other info you can think of to help us fix your growing problems.

Appreciate your offer. I would certainly ask question/s if I have specific problem.

If you really want to know the background of this grow.

I started with 8 plants in a 2x2 grow space, SOG style, all are in 4x4 rockwool. Due to the storm, plants went through 5 days without power(meaning no light, no aeration, etc). After 5 days of no power, plants started to have issues, 3 died and I nurtured the remaining 5.

My original target for this grow is an oz a plant that would be 8oz for a 2x2 area. Now that I have 5 plants remaining, I would be happy to get 5oz. But from the look of it, I might even exceed that. Is there a problem with my grow at this point? I dont think so.

Yes because of what the plants went through, they all have 'similar' multiple issues. Which brings me to my point that cannabis are very resilient plants and I'm quiet surprised that it didnt went hermie on me.

If cannabis can endure 5 days without power, I wouldn't be surprise that cannabis can handle defoliation and still come up with acceptable yield.

How often you watered?

It's in a hybrid hydro system

What nutes you used?

I already posted this but, I mix my own nute, I have no loyalty to any brand.

Temp/humidity?

temp range 75-80 top of canopy
humidity range 57-65 at this point of grow

Hope that answers your question

 

[Buba Blend]

Yes it did! Thank You!

 

[Budley Doright]

There are lots and lots of scientific studies on cannabis.Here are a few https://www.thecannabisreporter.com/resources/cannabis-white-papers-research/ I'm pretty sure there has been a few science studies on defoliated cannabis and more of cause on trimming posted amongst the thousands of defoliating threads that usually don't mean defoliating...Most of cause don't cover to many variables and of cause most studies just come under botany plant science.
Pharma is currently trying to develop synthetic compounds that are easier to dose and put into a capsule form this does away with losing strains like has happened with ACDC and will legitimise the market more without the farming costs.

Enjoy ur trimming, I hope you have a few cold ones handy!

I've honestly never seen a study about defoliation regarding cannabis but think I've seen one on hemp. It didn't seem to hurt yields when I tried but didn't help either. My evidence is all personal experience so for me to declare it does/doesn't work would be wrong, just doesn't for me lol.

 

[Budley Doright]

There are lots and lots of scientific studies on cannabis.Here are a few https://www.thecannabisreporter.com/resources/cannabis-white-papers-research/ I'm pretty sure there has been a few science studies on defoliated cannabis and more of cause on trimming posted amongst the thousands of defoliating threads that usually don't mean defoliating...Most of cause don't cover to many variables and of cause most studies just come under botany plant science.
Pharma is currently trying to develop synthetic compounds that are easier to dose and put into a capsule form this does away with losing strains like has happened with ACDC and will legitimise the market more without the farming costs.

Enjoy ur trimming, I hope you have a few cold ones handy!

I'm referring to defoliation only.

 

[Budley Doright]

Your just trolling again now. This is the what I replied to: "What scientific results? I have not seen any scientific results pertaining to weed. Is there any?"

I'm not going to keep on replying to what is becoming troll like behaviour, perhaps the others were right earlier in the thread. Have a nice end of grow.

Yes I should have clarified that I was asking about defoliation studies, the topic at hand, sorry for the confusion .

 

[Flowki]

To an extent I agree with what you're saying. However, I think, there's a significant differences in ethylene production between outdoor vs indoor plants. For one, outdoor plants are subject to higher level of biotic and abiotic stress regardless how rich is the soil where as indoor plants are more protected and in a (somewhat)controlled environment. Sure, eventually the leaves will be shed but the delay in ethylene production would also means the delay of ripening or maturation process depending of course on factors that influence the rate of ethylene production.

Good info though.

Off topic for a sec.... I found this article that I think is really really interesting and I believe a must share.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/12/23/the-intelligent-plant

Na you can't suggest indoor plants do not suffer from stress no matter how perfect the environment appears to be. So many little things that are known and over looked or not even known about. The main one for me is that plants have been evolving for millions of years under the sun, putting them under anything else is going to be less than optimal. I tend to think accounting for the wind is something they need in order to trigger survival traits and man.. so many other things like this we could get into.

It's kind of irrelevant though as what it comes down to, is what exactly does any of this have to do with cutting all the leaves off the plant?. That in comparison I have to say appears to be a terrible way of reaching the goals you describe above. Get a more powerful fan, get lights that have a much wider spectrum. Mimic end season with temps, light duration/color yada yada yada. I just think you have better options.

Going down the defoliation route is chasing shadows, honestly. Things that work, like topping, have solid evidence in favor. Once you are maxing out your yields or quality with the proven practices within your setup limitation then think about experimenting as you have a more reliable bar for comparison.

People may not be able to link you evidence that defoliating MJ during flowering is bad, but equally you can provide no evidence to say it's good. People can how ever provide evidence to ''suggest'' it's bad. That is the part where you should detach emotionally and make a rational choice.

 

[Budley Doright]

Na you can't suggest indoor plants do not suffer from stress no matter how perfect the environment appears to be. So many little things that are known and over looked or not even known about. The main one for me is that plants have been evolving for millions of years under the sun, putting them under anything else is going to be less than optimal. I tend to think accounting for the wind is something they need in order to trigger survival traits and man.. so many other things like this we could get into.

It's kind of irrelevant though as what it comes down to, is what exactly does any of this have to do with cutting all the leaves off the plant?. That in comparison I have to say appears to be a terrible way of reaching the goals you describe above. Get a more powerful fan, get lights that have a much wider spectrum. Mimic end season with temps, light duration/color yada yada yada. I just think you have better options.

Going down the defoliation route is chasing shadows, honestly. Things that work, like topping, have solid evidence in favor. Once you are maxing out your yields or quality with the proven practices within your setup limitation then think about experimenting as you have a more reliable bar for comparison.

People may not be able to link you evidence that defoliating MJ during flowering is bad, but equally you can provide no evidence to say it's good. People can how ever provide evidence to ''suggest'' it's bad. That is the part where you should detach emotionally and make a rational choice.

Just for discussions sake it seems there is evidence that "suggest" it is a good practise as well. That is the reason this debate continues lol.

 

[whitebb2727]

Alright, fair enough though you didnt elaborate what you mean of proper setup and controls. What's interesting to me, now that the 1st week result is in, my process suddenly becomes questionable whereas no one have offered this very guideline in Day 1. I wonder if the 1st week result is reversed, is my experiment still means nothing? Interesting.

As to proper set-up and controls. I've tried to be fair under my circumstances and as I've pointed out, any biases(including phenotype) can be deemed insignificant if there's enough data to collaborate the result.

So you're saying that if this experiment is repeated a 100 times over by me or anybody and each time the defoliated plant is bigger the informal experiment still means nothing?

I'm saying exactly that. Its just random the way you are doing it.

You would need to grow 5 of each. Several strains worth. So at least 15 of each. If not more and then repeat it.

Preferably clones. Preferably even more plants. Some with a few leaves removed. Some with a few more and some with a few more until you get to the ones with all the leaves removed.

The study you posted even states removing all leaves was the worst yield.

 

[whitebb2727]

I also don't agree with the old leaf thing. If the plant doesn't need it, it will shed the leaf.

Leaves drive a plant. If you cut the leaves off and light is hitting the floor then the light is being wasted.


The studies you posted even state not to cut all the leaves off.

 

[Xs121]

Na you can't suggest indoor plants do not suffer from stress no matter how perfect the environment appears to be.

I didnt say that plants indoor doesnt experience stress. I did say that plants outdoor experience higher level of stress compared to plants indoor.

People may not be able to link you evidence that defoliating MJ during flowering is bad, but equally you can provide no evidence to say it's good. People can how ever provide evidence to ''suggest'' it's bad. That is the part where you should detach emotionally and make a rational choice

I dont know where that idea is coming from that I'm suggesting that it's good. I'm here to find out the answer to that too through sharing this experiment.

I have no problem with people 'suggesting' that it is bad. I get that and I respect that, including your post. What I dont get is when those 'suggestions' are not being close to rational as you would say and reeking of arrogance and tainted with insults....what's the point of that?

If I traded insults with them (which seems to be the norm here in RIU) I'm labeled as emotional. If I try to challenge their statements with reasons, I'm labeled as a troll. What am I suppose to do? Do nothing and accept their 'suggestions' blindly' as facts? Meanwhile what I'm doing is not precised enough for them?

Maybe I got heated one time, I'm just being me, I'll respond to politeness with politeness, insult to insult and what not. But I wont back down that's for sure.

Like I said before, the only way to settle this issue is....experiment vs experiment or any cannabis scientific studies that points out defoliation doesnt work, until then, if they dont like to defoliate their plants that's fine with me. I have no issue with that.

 

[Xs121]

I'm saying exactly that. Its just random the way you are doing it.

You would need to grow 5 of each. Several strains worth. So at least 15 of each. If not more and then repeat it.

Preferably clones. Preferably even more plants. Some with a few leaves removed. Some with a few more and some with a few more until you get to the ones with all the leaves removed.

The study you posted even states removing all leaves was the worst yield.

I have no issue with what you're proposing and yes in other crops its called field testing where one plot is control and different plots are treated to different level of the experiment.

 

[Xs121]

I also don't agree with the old leaf thing. If the plant doesn't need it, it will shed the leaf.

Leaves drive a plant. If you cut the leaves off and light is hitting the floor then the light is being wasted.


The studies you posted even state not to cut all the leaves off.

True. However, rate of photosynthesis is not dependent on 'whole leaves'. The rate of photosynthesis is dependent on the surface area that are capable of photosynthesizing.

Having said that, if you look closely at the defoliated plant, I believe, it has more than enough chloroplasts to provide photosynthesis. It's not like the plant is totally bald.

Edit:

Plants also has a limit on photosynthesis. Once that limit is reached, your light becomes useless and continued use of high intensity light when the stomata are closed is also stressful to the plants.

 

[Buba Blend]

I didnt say that plants indoor doesnt experience stress. I did say that plants outdoor experience higher level of stress compared to plants indoor.


I dont know where that idea is coming from that I'm suggesting that it's good. I'm here to find out the answer to that too through sharing this experiment.

I have no problem with people 'suggesting' that it is bad. I get that and I respect that, including your post. What I dont get is when those 'suggestions' are not being close to rational as you would say and reeking of arrogance and tainted with insults....what's the point of that?

If I traded insults with them (which seems to be the norm here in RIU) I'm labeled as emotional. If I try to challenge their statements with reasons, I'm labeled as a troll. What am I suppose to do? Do nothing and accept their 'suggestions' blindly' as facts? Meanwhile what I'm doing is not precised enough for them?

Maybe I got heated one time, I'm just being me, I'll respond to politeness with politeness, insult to insult and what not. But I wont back down that's for sure.

Like I said before, the only way to settle this issue is....experiment vs experiment or any cannabis scientific studies that points out defoliation doesnt work, until then, if they dont like to defoliate their plants that's fine with me. I have no issue with that.

I take the troll thing back. There are 3 threads going on defoliating and I got this one confused with the one in Newbie Central, that's why I made the Newbie remark. Anywhere but newbie central and I could care less, so that was a mistake.
My bad!
While your plants are nice they do have other issues IMHO. Could be wrong but I think I see N Tox.
What I don't get is how you can call it an experiment with out disclosing the problems you ran into until I brought up the conditions of the plant?
Unless I missed that disclosure somewhere why was it not mentioned early on?