Gavita Sold To Hawthorne Group

[8thGenFarmer]

one reason I frame it that way, in terms of the geo political argument, and indeed proves your point as well, about coal usage for most current Electricity use in the States, is that here in Oregon, we have 1 stinking coal plant and it is in the process of being phased out, even after they spent 150+ million retrofitting it with scrubbers a few years back...

I grew up in the Columbia basin and Oregon is self sufficient on hydro power from that alone. So self sufficient in fact, that a good chunk is being sent to California along the Pacific Intertie [google it] right down to LA.
One could make the argument that Oregon is paying the penalty for California's poor use of infrastructure, while California gains a cheap power source, from the grid. Oregon's bills are paid as a positive, possibly, since it is excess and we have very little population statewide.
Oregon is also a part of a bi-state effort that effectively wiped out was was known as the Salmon Superhighway, so there is that to contend with in terms of hydropower....

I sat four years on a state board that was re-licensing a Native American Tribes dam on an Oregon river. The dam makes a fair amount of power, but was originally intended for irrigation as parts of Oregon are in the Great Basin [sad but true]. It also wiped out an indigenous bull trout run that was one of the most prolific on a inland Western United States river. The re-licensing addressed this fact, actually was basically an integral part, with new techniques never used before in dam for fish passage. If you have read the news in the last ten years, the USF&W has had a serious boner for bull trout habitat restoration.

So know we really have this fish issue tied up in the electricity issue and makes this thing that much more complex. Hell, there is a plan in works to remove the lower 4 dams of the Snake River, a 2,000 mile long trib of the Columbia. Hell's Canyon, baby!

My point is, even though this is a state by state issue, would be be better off with less reliance of the grid, no matter the source of input?
Community grids seem more apt, more repairable and even possible more DIY in times of trouble, god forbid.

I also advocate for more efficiency, less redundancy, less of profile, etc etc, passive heating for all homes etc etc...
and another low impact source could be Solar mirrors focusing on Stirling Engine prototypes. The stirling was developed in England and can use solar and just about anything else combustible really, as a fuel source. It is a two cylinder engine which uses hot and cold to repel each other, basically making an engine/piston motion in the process.
I believe that somewhere along the Ca/Nv border is a proto field online currently or was.

lastly......
I am very skeptical about the free power and magnetics theories, but I wonder how in the hell we are not tearing apart Tesla's concepts on Earth grounding and magnetism as a viable power source. Is it possible? perhaps, me thinks more than perhaps, but that is another conversation unto itself. Is it fucking kooky beyond all belief? perhaps.


I hope I didn't come off with a snarky vibe. You are one of the good RG's yo! RG4L



A majority of coal use for electricty in CO right? I lived in Aurora for a year in 87, ah Fitzsimmons army hospital, I was a brat.

Dude, loved hearing it about the dams. If you look at the wiki page for California dams you'll see all California did was build those things through the late 1800's through the 50's. Then we just stopped doing any of it, and started removing em lol. Yup, salmons!

 

[Will Thayer]

My uncle builds methane generators at Dairies. They run off the methane from the cow shit which is stored in big vats outside, methane otherwise sneaks up and into the atmoshphere. I believe it's a win win. Free electric for farms, less pollution for all of us. That being said there isn't enough readily available shit.

It is good to hear that things like this are happening. I have seen a lot of good work in this field in developing countries using a village's waste and anaerobic digestion to provide cooking gas and lighting. Very exciting stuff. Not having enough dookie is a weird problem to have. Perhaps the answer is to add more organic waste material from other processes or urban green waste recycling.

Cheers,
Will

 

[Will Thayer]

Natural gas is another scam the oil industry is trying to pull on the American people. The industry says it's clean,bullshit,just cleaner than coal,it still puts a lot of carbon dioxide in the air. They say we can be energy independent,bullshit,they are building plants on every coast to liquefy it and sell it overseas using tanker ships,when that happens prices will go up for us. Fraking is polluting all our ground water and streams and a lot of it is what they call flared or lost to leaks in the pipeline system,some estimate 15% of the gas they bring up goes directly into the atmosphere. I can list more of their bullshit.

We are fighting fracking with tooth and nails here in the U.K. Unfortunately a local council has pulled a finger from the dike and granted planning permission recently
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/north-yorkshire-council-approves-fracking-plans/
I can think of no better example of planet rape then drilling pipes into the earth and filling it with toxic chemicals for very little gratification. Northern England has some of the most beautiful countryside in the U.K. but also is the poorest economically. The government in London is getting involved in local council decisions and influencing their vote in favour of big oil coin. I would rather have clean drinking water and for my property to maintain its value then a momentary economic boost from an unsustainable industry.

Cheers,
Will

 

[Will Thayer]

The beheadings suck too though lol. Cali has been in drought for 6 years. My neighborhood looks like it's rd to burst into flames any moment. But I'm sticking around. Syria is a proxy war over oil pipelines is my theory. America once again supporting jihadi wars, because it helps us against old Russia and Iran. Kinda like Afghanistan in the 80's.
We back the Saudis our best buddies and their Sunni rebels, Russia backs the alawites and Shia. If there is a revolution whoever takes power wil be US friendly. Shameful we have to arm the craziest bunch since the nazis to make that happen but that doesn't stop em.

Definitely more reasons to leave Syria than hunger. Whatever each factions motivations or the end game strategy of their sponsors are. That country is in chaos. The only folks there who appear to support democracy and multiculturalism are the Kurds and that is because they have felt the yoke of oppression since forever. Everyone else wants to dominate and take whatever they can. Your food,property, wealth,freedom to worship whoever and however you choose, your wife and daughters for war brides, your husbands and sons for cannon fodder. There is real "end times" shit going on over there. If I was in their position I would do everything I could to get my family as far away as I could.

Cheers,
Will

 

[Malocan]

People also believe the mass migration from Syria and the surrounding area is all about fleeing the war. In fact Syria is in the worst drought in at least 900 years,people are starving and that is a leading cause.

Hi captianmorgan,
i think you are right indirectly. But the people are fleeing in syria, beacuse of the war. i live in germany. I have a lot of syria friends, which have still family in syria.
They told me all the same things, the main reason why people fleeing is war. Some people from syria told me azad do the war and in the other hand they are syria people which tell me Isis/al kaida/ america goverment starts the war. Not even one of them told me the reason why they are fleeing is water.

But its wellknown fact that the whole area around israel /syria / palestina have drought problems only turkey have no problems with water. And yes, maybe the drought problems is one of the reason why they start the war in syria. I think other reasons are oil like always, and to replace the pro russia goverment in syria.

 

[Will Thayer]

Hi captianmorgan,
i think you are right indirectly. But the people are fleeing in syria, beacuse of the war. i live in germany. I have a lot of syria friends, which have still family in syria.
They told me all the same things, the main reason why people fleeing is war. Some people from syria told me azad do the war and in the other hand they are syria people which tell me Isis/al kaida/ america goverment starts the war. Not even one of them told me the reason why they are fleeing is water.

But its wellknown fact that the whole area around israel /syria / palestina have drought problems only turkey have no problems with water. And yes, maybe the drought problems is one of the reason why they start the war in syria. I think other reasons are oil like always, and to replace the pro russia goverment in syria.

Same here in the U.K. Brother Malocan, We have Syrian friends at work and some of the stories they tell you could not write into a hollywood horror script. I know we are all feeling the strain of immigration here in Europe but these people need help from somewhere. If drone strikes make more Jihadis what does taking in refugees and feeding their children make?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/09/14/world/middleeast/syria-war-deaths.html?_r=0


Cheers,
Will

 

[captainmorgan]

The beheadings suck too though lol. Cali has been in drought for 6 years. My neighborhood looks like it's rd to burst into flames any moment. But I'm sticking around. Syria is a proxy war over oil pipelines is my theory. America once again supporting jihadi wars, because it helps us against old Russia and Iran. Kinda like Afghanistan in the 80's.
We back the Saudis our best buddies and their Sunni rebels, Russia backs the alawites and Shia. If there is a revolution whoever takes power wil be US friendly. Shameful we have to arm the craziest bunch since the nazis to make that happen but that doesn't stop em.

Yea,if you take a world map of oil and gas pipe lines or proposed lines and lay it over a map of the conflicts in the world it's a real eye opener. I still believe that over the next 20 to 30 years there will be a even larger migration out of the area due to climate change and drought,this is just the start for Europe.

 

[whitebb2727]

They don't actually do that all the time. The only guys I know of in the United States who got sued replanted seed they harvested the prior year. they violated a contract they signed to not replant seed they buy. They wanted to save money on the planting next year. Monsanto proved in court that the genetics of what they planted were 100% from the batch they had sold them prior. If was just drift you wouldn't find an entire Monsanto strain in their field, it would be a mix of genes. There are bags of seed out there with no contract to sign. It's just not the newest fanciest stuff.

Farmers really are a well respected bunch in the community, start fucking with em juries tend to take their side. Our family was sued several times over our farm, never by big companies, always by neighbors who decided to build a new house next to our fields and then complain about smells and sounds. Honestly it's bored housewives who fucked with us the most, as far as court goes. We still won every case, cause we grew their for a century, and because farmers do get respect. Much less than I get now that I've been farming herbs anyway!

There are reasons to be concerned, but that one is as far as I know myth. It was his defense in court, but he lost on the science.

Just about every farmer I know used seed bought from big ag, all sign contracts, and no one was ever sued. Seriously my family has been buying commercial seed since the 70's with no stress. If Microsoft catches you with 100 hacked versions of Windows they'll sue you as well.

Do you have a link to a guy who was sued where he won in court? Or where he had never signed a contract?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/agricultural-giant-battles-small-farmers/

 

[whitebb2727]

8genfarmer,

I grew up farming. Was you that stated that farmers have to have GMO to run a large scale farm?

No they don't. Its more profitable but they don't need it.

I grew up with spray from farmers drifting on us all the time. Fuck big corporate farmers.

Its been proven time and time again that organic with no herbicides and no insecticides can compete with the big guys.

 

[8thGenFarmer]

8genfarmer,

I grew up farming. Was you that stated that farmers have to have GMO to run a large scale farm?

No they don't. Its more profitable but they don't need it.

I grew up with spray from farmers drifting on us all the time. Fuck big corporate farmers.

Its been proven time and time again that organic with no herbicides and no insecticides can compete with the big guys.

We never grew gmo tomato, did corn. there aren't any gmo tomato yet, but I'm sure my family would be open to it.
I grew up next to Amish folk, never sprayed anything on their fields either, but their yields without our advancements were 1/3 of ours per acre for beans and corn. We aren't organic but every one of our crops tests clean at harvest. We actually have people measure the concentration of pesticide or fungicide before it's sold, mainly to protect our own asses. If a sprayed fucked up or something was measured incorrectly, we don't want it to go to market.
Where I grew up if you spray someone else's farm you'd get a huge fine from EPA. We used tractor based sprayers, drive over the crop and spray down, can't spray in windy days, and have to fill out logbooks detailing all the spraying, including our license numbers and pertinent info. If we failed to mark something, once again big fine.
Our family farm is larger than most, but we aren't owned by banks, have no shareholders. We make decisions however we want, and keep it that way. I'm not a fan of corporate style farming either, I prefer family owned business and co-ops. i have like 3 uncles and 10 cousins and their kids all working one big family farm. We have like 40 others that show up around late July as well, but that's for harvest.

 

[whitebb2727]

We never grew gmo tomato, did corn. there aren't any gmo tomato yet, but I'm sure my family would be open to it.
I grew up next to Amish folk, never sprayed anything on their fields either, but their yields without our advancements were 1/3 of ours per acre for beans and corn. We aren't organic but every one of our crops tests clean at harvest. We actually have people measure the concentration of pesticide or fungicide before it's sold, mainly to protect our own asses. If a sprayed fucked up or something was measured incorrectly, we don't want it to go to market.
Where I grew up if you spray someone else's farm you'd get a huge fine from EPA. We used tractor based sprayers, drive over the crop and spray down, can't spray in windy days, and have to fill out logbooks detailing all the spraying, including our license numbers and pertinent info. If we failed to mark something, once again big fine.
Our family farm is larger than most, but we aren't owned by banks, have no shareholders. We make decisions however we want, and keep it that way. I'm not a fan of corporate style farming either, I prefer family owned business and co-ops. i have like 3 uncles and 10 cousins and their kids all working one big family farm. We have like 40 others that show up around late July as well, but that's for harvest.

I grew up in Amish country to. They yield better than the commercial ops. The ones where your at must have done something wrong.

You also have to look at the seeds being used. If a person uses GMO or f1 hybrids they grow bigger and faster because of hybrid vigor.

Heirloom seeds lack the vigor but you get the same thing year after year.

I feed my family with a no till organic garden. We are in a drought and my corn is already 8+ feet tall.

Humans are stupid. They think they can make nature better. If we are not careful we will destroy ourselves.

Crops have been growing for millennia without all out chemicals.

GMO is a horrible idea. What happens to all that roundup? Yea, that's right, in our water supply along with all the phosphates and shit from over fertilizing.

Sorry the truth is that I can yield more with my organic setup.




Don't get me wrong. I'm not an organic guy that preaches about it and not use synthetics.

I've used synthetics and still do for certain things. I'm against the over use of those products and using GMO that are immune to herbicides.

 

[8thGenFarmer]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/agricultural-giant-battles-small-farmers/

Did you read the article? The farmer was told he couldn't plant more Monsanto because he didn't cooperate with Monsanto. The farmer wasn't sued. He had been growing Monsanto seed he bought not from Monsanto, but from a seed cleaner, who procured it from other people's harvest. He was undercutting the people who did all the science and work to make the seed. The farmer never signed an agreement with Monsanto, so wasn't sued, but was just blacklisted. Monsanto can sell to whomever they want.
The guy who was sued, the seed cleaner, had been harvesting seed from people's crops, and giving it back to them. It's like opening a business where you copy DVDs from the rental store for people, you are helping people steal, the guy knew it. His records proved he knew it, which is why the court found him at fault. This is something every Monsanto customer knows not to do. My family could save hundreds of thousand per year if we did that, but it's dishonest and we don't. We could clean our own seeds but then we wouldn't get the tomato Monsanto developed "for us" in our field. They spent the years doing test crops in our fields, and analyzing the plants, we get to buy the product they made. We use less fungicide with their seed, and it yields well. It's fair enough for me. A win win.

 

[8thGenFarmer]

I grew up in Amish country to. They yield better than the commercial ops. The ones where your at must have done something wrong.

You also have to look at the seeds being used. If a person uses GMO or f1 hybrids they grow bigger and faster because of hybrid vigor.

Heirloom seeds lack the vigor but you get the same thing year after year.

I feed my family with a no till organic garden. We are in a drought and my corn is already 8+ feet tall.

Humans are stupid. They think they can make nature better. If we are not careful we will destroy ourselves.

Crops have been growing for millennia without all out chemicals.

GMO is a horrible idea. What happens to all that roundup? Yea, that's right, in our water supply along with all the phosphates and shit from over fertilizing.

Sorry the truth is that I can yield more with my organic setup.




Don't get me wrong. I'm not an organic guy that preaches about it and not use synthetics.

I've used synthetics and still do for certain things. I'm against the over use of those products and using GMO that are immune to herbicides.

We are both against over use, but if you look at records of crop yields, you'll see the record is broken every year, has been for decades. Our yields go up up up, and the winners for the past 50-60 years have all been non-organic.

Organic has its benefits, it's sustainable and it's healthy. But it isn't as productive IMO.

http://www.northernag.net/AGNews/AgNewsStories/TabId/657/ArtMID/2927/ArticleID/5797/New-World-Record-Corn-Yield-Set-Again-in-2015.aspx

Yields used to average under 100 bushels an acre, that guy just did 500. Most of the Amish where I grew up were lucky to break 100 still. Corn can be tall but has half the ears.

 

[whitebb2727]

Did you read the article? The farmer was told he couldn't plant more Monsanto because he didn't cooperate with Monsanto. The farmer wasn't sued. He had been growing Monsanto seed he bought not from Monsanto, but from a seed cleaner, who procured it from other people's harvest. He was undercutting the people who did all the science and work to make the seed. The farmer never signed an agreement with Monsanto, so wasn't sued, but was just blacklisted. Monsanto can sell to whomever they want.
The guy who was sued, the seed cleaner, had been harvesting seed from people's crops, and giving it back to them. It's like opening a business where you copy DVDs from the rental store for people, you are helping people steal, the guy knew it. His records proved he knew it, which is why the court found him at fault. This is something every Monsanto customer knows not to do. My family could save hundreds of thousand per year if we did that, but it's dishonest and we don't. We could clean our own seeds but then we wouldn't get the tomato Monsanto developed "for us" in our field. They spent the years doing test crops in our fields, and analyzing the plants, we get to buy the product they made. We use less fungicide with their seed, and it yields well. It's fair enough for me. A win win.

He had no knowledge that they were GMO seeds. I don't really care either way. Monsanto is an evil ccompany.

We are both against over use, but if you look at records of crop yields, you'll see the record is broken every year, has been for decades. Our yields go up up up, and the winners for the past 50-60 years have all been non-organic.

Organic has its benefits, it's sustainable and it's healthy. But it isn't as productive IMO.

http://www.northernag.net/AGNews/AgNewsStories/TabId/657/ArtMID/2927/ArticleID/5797/New-World-Record-Corn-Yield-Set-Again-in-2015.aspx

Yields used to average under 100 bushels an acre, that guy just did 500. Most of the Amish where I grew up were lucky to break 100 still. Corn can be tall but has half the ears.

Wait and see. When products are labeled GMO, you will see the decline of their use.


GMO has the possibility to ruin us.

 

[8thGenFarmer]

He had no knowledge that they were GMO seeds. I don't really care either way. Monsanto is an evil ccompany.
Wait and see. When products are labeled GMO, you will see the decline of their use.


GMO has the possibility to ruin us.

He did have knowledge they were gmo, the seed cleaner he bought them from advertised "hey I sell Monsanto for less." I believe the farmer in question was a scoundrel, he happened to steal from an unpopular company so people back him, I get it. But the courts don't take into consideration if you are popular or not when they protect your rights and property, thank goodness.

 

[whitebb2727]

Did you read the article? The farmer was told he couldn't plant more Monsanto because he didn't cooperate with Monsanto. The farmer wasn't sued. He had been growing Monsanto seed he bought not from Monsanto, but from a seed cleaner, who procured it from other people's harvest. He was undercutting the people who did all the science and work to make the seed. The farmer never signed an agreement with Monsanto, so wasn't sued, but was just blacklisted. Monsanto can sell to whomever they want.
The guy who was sued, the seed cleaner, had been harvesting seed from people's crops, and giving it back to them. It's like opening a business where you copy DVDs from the rental store for people, you are helping people steal, the guy knew it. His records proved he knew it, which is why the court found him at fault. This is something every Monsanto customer knows not to do. My family could save hundreds of thousand per year if we did that, but it's dishonest and we don't. We could clean our own seeds but then we wouldn't get the tomato Monsanto developed "for us" in our field. They spent the years doing test crops in our fields, and analyzing the plants, we get to buy the product they made. We use less fungicide with their seed, and it yields well. It's fair enough for me. A win win.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15825


Just so you know I'm against being able to patent a plant. Everyone has the right to eat and food.

That link is over second and third generation seeds.

If I grow your seed but cross it and work with it, is not now my work?

Its silly to be able to patent a plant.

 

[whitebb2727]

Did you read the article? The farmer was told he couldn't plant more Monsanto because he didn't cooperate with Monsanto. The farmer wasn't sued. He had been growing Monsanto seed he bought not from Monsanto, but from a seed cleaner, who procured it from other people's harvest. He was undercutting the people who did all the science and work to make the seed. The farmer never signed an agreement with Monsanto, so wasn't sued, but was just blacklisted. Monsanto can sell to whomever they want.
The guy who was sued, the seed cleaner, had been harvesting seed from people's crops, and giving it back to them. It's like opening a business where you copy DVDs from the rental store for people, you are helping people steal, the guy knew it. His records proved he knew it, which is why the court found him at fault. This is something every Monsanto customer knows not to do. My family could save hundreds of thousand per year if we did that, but it's dishonest and we don't. We could clean our own seeds but then we wouldn't get the tomato Monsanto developed "for us" in our field. They spent the years doing test crops in our fields, and analyzing the plants, we get to buy the product they made. We use less fungicide with their seed, and it yields well. It's fair enough for me. A win win.

Did you read it?

"The Runyons say they signed no agreements, and if they were contaminated with the genetically modified seed, it blew over from a neighboring farm."

They had no agreement and denied it.

I will further say that if you crops pollinate mine then I don't have to pay you for them.

 

[whitebb2727]

Monsanto is a great company. Horse shit.

In fact, in Feb. 2005 the Runyons received a letter from Monsanto, citing "an agreement" with the Indiana Department of Agriculture giving it the right to come on their land and test for seed contamination.

Only one problem: The Indiana Department of Agriculture didn't exist until two months after that letter was sent. What does that say to you?

This is the type shit they do.

 

[whitebb2727]

The seed cleaner didn't know either and Monsanto called his customers and threatened them.
74-year-old Mo Parr is a seed cleaner; he is hired by farmers to separate debris from the seed to be replanted. Monsanto sued him claiming he was "aiding and abetting" farmers, helping them to violate the patent.

"There's no way that I could be held responsible," Parr said. "There's no way that I could look at a soy bean and tell you if it's Round-up Ready."

The company subpoenaed Parr's bank records, without his knowledge, and found his customers. After receiving calls from Monsanto, some of them stopped talking to him.

"It really broke my heart," Parr said. "You know, I could hardly hold a cup of coffee that morning,"

Monsanto won its case against Parr, but the company, which won't comment on specific cases, has stopped its legal action against the Runyons.

And now four states, including Indiana, prohibit seed suppliers from entering a farmer's property without a state agent, tactics which have threatened a way of life.

 

[Malocan]

Monsanto is one of the biggest evil company we have, just google what they do and have allready done. They are so many examples for their devil behaviour which is not really a secret. Saccharin, Aspartam, Polystyrol, DDT, Dioxin, Agent Orange,
Alone the idea of patent a plant or their terminator seeds, the devil personally must have that idea.
I dont understand why someone would try to defend them? Only beacuse you got more yield?