TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
thanks for the update bro,,im buying some seeds from mr.nice at the winter auction, 70-80 seeds in a pack,,any recomendations of strains from them? i have critical mass,shit,g13xskunk already!!
What's Super Skunk like?
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
Obviously the seeds, especially the WW isn't 30 years old.
We have a saying in dutch: "In the past everything was better".
It's apparent many people have no clue where modern indoor cannabis comes from.
NL#5/Haze from sensi is what both Arjan (GHS) and shantibaba (mr nice seedbank) started out with. Amongst others...
Add Skunk #1 and you got SSH, the foundation for some of the best hybrids today, as well as popular cuts (Blue Dream...)
GHS Super lemon haze is SSH x (skunk #1 x citral) = Sensi x sensi x sensi x sensi...
C99 is bag seed from sensi JH... and more of their strains added.
Hindu kush suitable for indoor growing didn't just fall out of the air... need I go on (hint.. Masterkush...)
Those indoor high yielding high thc short flowering strains didn't just fall out of the air... (sensi, positronics!)
As for mr nice, the auction is definitely a good way to get good genetics for a reasonable price.
The best they have to offer is the SSH . Shit is Skunk #1 (sensi), Critical Mass is Big Bud (sensi...), etc, ETC...
Back in the day Sensi was a coffeeshop, they were one of the first to sell seeds suitable for indoor growing in Amsterdam. Do I have to mention Sam the Skunkman...
We have a saying in dutch: "In the past everything was better".
Ironically, NL#5 no longer exists.
It's apparent many people have no clue where modern indoor cannabis comes from.
NL#5/Haze from sensi is what both Arjan (GHS) and shantibaba (mr nice seedbank) started out with. Amongst others...
Add Skunk #1 and you got SSH, the foundation for some of the best hybrids today, as well as popular cuts (Blue Dream...)
GHS Super lemon haze is SSH x (skunk #1 x citral) = Sensi x sensi x sensi x sensi...
C99 is bag seed from sensi JH... and more of their strains added.
Hindu kush suitable for indoor growing didn't just fall out of the air... need I go on (hint.. Masterkush...)
Those indoor high yielding high thc short flowering strains didn't just fall out of the air... (sensi, positronics!)
As for mr nice, the auction is definitely a good way to get good genetics for a reasonable price.
The best they have to offer is the SSH . Shit is Skunk #1 (sensi), Critical Mass is Big Bud (sensi...), etc, ETC...
Back in the day Sensi was a coffeeshop, they were one of the first to sell seeds suitable for indoor growing in Amsterdam. Do I have to mention Sam the Skunkman...
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GroErr
Well-Known Member
Exact same experience with a freebie SS from sensi seeds, super low yield, smelled and tasted like skunk piss, not even sure I'd use it for oil/hash. May have been a bad pheno but I wouldn't grow it again.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
thanks,,
u must admit though the seeds bought today from sensi are not near as good as the seeds bought from them 10-20 years ago?
also, just on the previous page i said how sam the skunkman was the one who brought skunk over from the states as stated in the big book of buds..
i bought nl#5 from bcsc paid 14 bucks per seed,says its the real thing,, however they popped overnight but took 3 months just to get 3 clones off 2 plants,,,very slow growth...i would say ur probably wright the real nl5 is gone or has been degraded over time? i just found out yesterday out of the 2 nl5's i planted 1 is male 1 is female, but it will be another 40-50 days before i can tell u how she turns out..
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Post below turned into a rant, not directed to your personally 
It just relates to my nr 1 annoyance in the cannabis industry.
When talking about old strains you don't buy seeds, you buy genetics. And when it comes to originals, sensi is one of the best places to get them, and in fact where many breeders got and still get them.
The whole thing is so ironic, retaining the genetics of all the pollen chucks people made with amongst others sensi seeds is the hard part and what in fact is messing up the gene pool and makes it harder for actual breeders. Saying that sensi seeds was better 10-20 years ago is just barking up the wrong tree and ungrateful to Ben Dronkers who if he were american would probably called "a hero". Without people like him you'd all have far less strains and hybrids to order online and grow.
It's what mr nice is all about (and hence no fem seed) though, and for some strains his could be the better. Keeping the old ones alive so breeders still have the ol'd dutch IBLs to work with instead of the unstable narrowed down pollen chucks. If I remember correctly they also tried to breed the NL#5 (which is long gone) out of the NL#5/Haze again. Theoretically doable with enough NL#5/Haze to get something close, but in reality downright impossible to get the NL#5 as it was.
The saying "in the past everything was better" is always meant sarcastic, the older you get, the more people go "this and that was way better in the past".
Super skunk never was that uber strain people pretend they remember of it. I smoked it daily for years, and sold a lot of it while working in a coffeeshop 2 decades ago when the whole menu in most coffeeshops contained largely classics only. I've seen the rest appear bit by bit.
Obviously there are many strains/crosses/pollenchucks out there that are much better than the old sensi IBLs, but if you want an old skunk (or o haze and many others) that comes close to what it was 20 years ago...
http://www.olded.nl/Old Ed geschiedenis.html (select english translation). I have a grow guide written by those guys nearly 3 decades ago.
Perhaps it's because in the US people are more used to hyping the real thing when it comes to clones, like the real GSC forum cut, or another unstable "elite" OG Kush pheno. Those are hard to keep available for decades, because, they are not bred as a strain.
The whole point of creating stable IBLs is so they and the hybrids created with them can be reproduced endlessly and effortlessly.
That's what breeding is really about... At the same time they, especially combined, provide a wide genepool used to create most of the popular crosses and hybrids. It's why those sensi seeds are so valuable, a LOT of work has gone into those from which not only growers but also many pollen chucking pocket fillers benefit from today. People say sensi is expensive... well, should have paid them instead of the rippers.
And while I'm at it... Dinafem... their popular strains, praised by many, especially by the wannabees in Spain, are nothing more than sensi x mr nice... They won't even deny it. They actual sent an email to mr nice to let him know they stole his Critical Mass (which again, is big bud, something mr nice won't deny either). Their WW is nothing more than our WW crossed with our WW... I say "our" because before amnesia haze and SSH that was the nr 1 popular strain on coffeeshop menus for over a decade.
While their methods disgust me, at least they know what the real good stuff is and are honest about what they stole (others just rename it... as if they magically found an indoor strain that finishes in 9 weeks...)
Starting a breeding project with dutch ibl x bag seed x pollen chuck x forum cut is not only unpractical, it's unethical, and unless you put years in stabilizing that soup it simply is not breeding.
Starting a breeding project using sensi seeds AND actually create something new AND reproducible is acceptable though. It is in fact the legal way in NL for non-cannabis species (giving monsanto a harder time...), you can borrow genetics from anyone, as long as what you create with it is actually a new strain that can consistently be reproduced. That requires IBLs... and if you want to create something new, you need variation, which means a wide genepool, something old, not something 5 pollen chuckers worked on before you.
Ok I'm done
It just relates to my nr 1 annoyance in the cannabis industry.No not for "the seeds" as in all seeds and especially not the "near as good part". For some strains that could obviously be true, for some the opposite.
When talking about old strains you don't buy seeds, you buy genetics. And when it comes to originals, sensi is one of the best places to get them, and in fact where many breeders got and still get them.
The whole thing is so ironic, retaining the genetics of all the pollen chucks people made with amongst others sensi seeds is the hard part and what in fact is messing up the gene pool and makes it harder for actual breeders. Saying that sensi seeds was better 10-20 years ago is just barking up the wrong tree and ungrateful to Ben Dronkers who if he were american would probably called "a hero". Without people like him you'd all have far less strains and hybrids to order online and grow.
It's what mr nice is all about (and hence no fem seed) though, and for some strains his could be the better. Keeping the old ones alive so breeders still have the ol'd dutch IBLs to work with instead of the unstable narrowed down pollen chucks. If I remember correctly they also tried to breed the NL#5 (which is long gone) out of the NL#5/Haze again. Theoretically doable with enough NL#5/Haze to get something close, but in reality downright impossible to get the NL#5 as it was.
The saying "in the past everything was better" is always meant sarcastic, the older you get, the more people go "this and that was way better in the past".
Super skunk never was that uber strain people pretend they remember of it. I smoked it daily for years, and sold a lot of it while working in a coffeeshop 2 decades ago when the whole menu in most coffeeshops contained largely classics only. I've seen the rest appear bit by bit.
Obviously there are many strains/crosses/pollenchucks out there that are much better than the old sensi IBLs, but if you want an old skunk (or o haze and many others) that comes close to what it was 20 years ago...
And where do you think Sam's seeds ended up directly and indirectly? Positronics, flying dutchmen (which is now sensi seeds because he's one of the most reliable and actual seed banks able to retain genetics over long times), and sensi seeds itself. A LOT of work has been done on that since, from which you all benefit still today.
http://www.olded.nl/Old Ed geschiedenis.html (select english translation). I have a grow guide written by those guys nearly 3 decades ago.
Perhaps it's because in the US people are more used to hyping the real thing when it comes to clones, like the real GSC forum cut, or another unstable "elite" OG Kush pheno. Those are hard to keep available for decades, because, they are not bred as a strain.
The whole point of creating stable IBLs is so they and the hybrids created with them can be reproduced endlessly and effortlessly.
That's what breeding is really about... At the same time they, especially combined, provide a wide genepool used to create most of the popular crosses and hybrids. It's why those sensi seeds are so valuable, a LOT of work has gone into those from which not only growers but also many pollen chucking pocket fillers benefit from today. People say sensi is expensive... well, should have paid them instead of the rippers.
And while I'm at it... Dinafem... their popular strains, praised by many, especially by the wannabees in Spain, are nothing more than sensi x mr nice... They won't even deny it. They actual sent an email to mr nice to let him know they stole his Critical Mass (which again, is big bud, something mr nice won't deny either). Their WW is nothing more than our WW crossed with our WW... I say "our" because before amnesia haze and SSH that was the nr 1 popular strain on coffeeshop menus for over a decade.
While their methods disgust me, at least they know what the real good stuff is and are honest about what they stole (others just rename it... as if they magically found an indoor strain that finishes in 9 weeks...)
Starting a breeding project with dutch ibl x bag seed x pollen chuck x forum cut is not only unpractical, it's unethical, and unless you put years in stabilizing that soup it simply is not breeding.
Starting a breeding project using sensi seeds AND actually create something new AND reproducible is acceptable though. It is in fact the legal way in NL for non-cannabis species (giving monsanto a harder time...), you can borrow genetics from anyone, as long as what you create with it is actually a new strain that can consistently be reproduced. That requires IBLs... and if you want to create something new, you need variation, which means a wide genepool, something old, not something 5 pollen chuckers worked on before you.
Ok I'm done
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TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
i think a lot of the seed co's use sensi seeds genetics, probably all as sensi was the original seed co before it became sensi.. nirvana seeds, seedsman seeds, and many others can trace their strains back to sensi...ie, seedsmans skunk1 and original afghani, both admtedly aquired from sensi...Post below turned into a rant, not directed to your personally
No not for "the seeds" as in all seeds and especially not the "near as good part". For some strains that could obviously be true, for some the opposite.
When talking about old strains you don't buy seeds, you buy genetics. And when it comes to originals, sensi is one of the best places to get them, and in fact where many breeders got and still get them.
The whole thing is so ironic, retaining the genetics of all the pollen chucks people made with amongst others sensi seeds is the hard part and what in fact is messing up the gene pool and makes it harder for actual breeders. Saying that sensi seeds was better 10-20 years ago is just barking up the wrong tree and ungrateful to Ben Dronkers who if he were american would probably called "a hero". Without people like him you'd all have far less strains and hybrids to order online and grow.
It's what mr nice is all about (and hence no fem seed) though, and for some strains his could be the better. Keeping the old ones alive so breeders still have the ol'd dutch IBLs to work with instead of the unstable narrowed down pollen chucks. If I remember correctly they also tried to breed the NL#5 (which is long gone) out of the NL#5/Haze again. Theoretically doable with enough NL#5/Haze to get something close, but in reality downright impossible to get the NL#5 as it was.
The saying "in the past everything was better" is always meant sarcastic, the older you get, the more people go "this and that was way better in the past".
Super skunk never was that uber strain people pretend they remember of it. I smoked it daily for years, and sold a lot of it while working in a coffeeshop 2 decades ago when the whole menu in most coffeeshops contained largely classics only. I've seen the rest appear bit by bit.
Obviously there are many strains/crosses/pollenchucks out there that are much better than the old sensi IBLs, but if you want an old skunk (or o haze and many others) that comes close to what it was 20 years ago...
And where do you think Sam's seeds ended up directly and indirectly? Positronics, flying dutchmen (which is now sensi seeds because he's one of the most reliable and actual seed banks able to retain genetics over long times), and sensi seeds itself. A LOT of work has been done on that since, from which you all benefit still today.
http://www.olded.nl/Old Ed geschiedenis.html (select english translation). I have a grow guide written by those guys nearly 3 decades ago.
Perhaps it's because in the US people are more used to hyping the real thing when it comes to clones, like the real GSC forum cut, or another unstable "elite" OG Kush pheno. Those are hard to keep available for decades, because, they are not bred as a strain.
The whole point of creating stable IBLs is so they and the hybrids created with them can be reproduced endlessly and effortlessly.
That's what breeding is really about... At the same time they, especially combined, provide a wide genepool used to create most of the popular crosses and hybrids. It's why those sensi seeds are so valuable, a LOT of work has gone into those from which not only growers but also many pollen chucking pocket fillers benefit from today. People say sensi is expensive... well, should have paid them instead of the rippers.
And while I'm at it... Dinafem... their popular strains, praised by many, especially by the wannabees in Spain, are nothing more than sensi x mr nice... They won't even deny it. They actual send an email to mr nice to let him know they stole his Critical Mass (which again, is big bud, something mr nice won't deny either). Their WW is nothing more than our WW crossed with our WW... I say "our" because before amnesia haze and SSH that was the nr 1 popular strain on coffeeshop menus for over a decade.
While their methods disgust me, at least they know what the real good stuff is and are honest about what they stole (others just rename it... as if they magically found an indoor strain that finishes in 9 weeks...)
Starting a breeding project with dutch ibl x bag seed x pollen chuck x forum cut is not only unpractical, it's unethical, and unless you put years is stabilizing that soup simply is not breeding.
Starting a breeding project using sensi seeds AND actually create something new AND reproducible is acceptable though. It is in fact the legal way in NL for non-cannabis species (giving monsanto a harder time...), you can borrow genetics from anyone, as long as what you create with it is actually a new strain that can consistently be reproduced. That requires IBLs... and if you want to create something new, you need variation, which means a wide genepool, something old, not something 5 pollen chuckers worked on before you.
Ok I'm done
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
also in my opinion, girl scout cookies is shit, or at least the bud i got from the dr. was..all hype, and the og kush craze, i dont understand as nobody truly knows if what they are getting is what its said to be..half of the shit passed around in the states is called kush,, and its no such thing,,mostly bag seed grown and passed along as kush...
Sativied
Well-Known Member
There's a lot of conflicting info about who got what from who but in short, Sam sold skunk and o haze to Neville, who sold his stock to Ben (sensi). As you can read in the history link I posted about Old Ed, they got skunk from Sam too.
One of them, Wernard, started positronics, they had the first grow shop (with hps), the first coffeeshop (mellow yellow.), and the first seedshop. They went bankrupt in 1997 (although there's Postitronics.eu - don't know the story, probably sold his stock to them).
Many roads lead to Rome, regardless, they all "shared" the same original stock. Many of those other early breeders got their blessing or earned the respect to use it. If you weren't willing to put in the work however... and that attitude still exist, even amongst growers.
Referring to pollinating a plant as "breeding" is generally not accepted. There's a big difference between making beans and breeding strains.
Was looking for another link, but:
"arrested more than 80 times..." so yeah, hard with the cops, but enough money to be a real seed bank and keep those IBLs in the family forever. A seed bank isn't a web site where you buy pollen chucks, it's where genetics are preserved.
We had that with skunk, super skunk (especially long after it was introduced), white widow, power plant, and a couple of others. Especially white widow. If it was strong, it was white widow.
I recently read in the UK strong stuff is commonly referred to as skunk or super skunk...
sunny747
Well-Known Member
So where do we get good genetics? I think that the thing to do is grow a bunch of the strain and pick out the traits that you find desirable, but for most people that's not practical. I just like to pop a seed and grow it pretty much no matter how it turns out.
The person at my hydro store is always telling me to start with good genetics and to buy seed from local dealers of Apothecary Genetics. They're pretty expensive as I recall.
Here is an idea. Someone needs to head up to the North Pole and raid the seed vault. You KNOW they have the original strains hidden up there for themselves
The person at my hydro store is always telling me to start with good genetics and to buy seed from local dealers of Apothecary Genetics. They're pretty expensive as I recall.
Here is an idea. Someone needs to head up to the North Pole and raid the seed vault. You KNOW they have the original strains hidden up there for themselves
sunny747
Well-Known Member
Wow. This bud really has a strong smell when burned.
I chopped it all up today and placed in jars for the cure. I took a small piece of bud and took it into the bathroom. I torched the bud, but didn't smoke it. I just wanted to see how it smells.. It reallly stunk up everything. I think I got a little medicated from just being in the enclosed space. I can't stop laughing. I'm not sure if it's a buzz or if it's just hilarious how strong the smell is
I chopped it all up today and placed in jars for the cure. I took a small piece of bud and took it into the bathroom. I torched the bud, but didn't smoke it. I just wanted to see how it smells.. It reallly stunk up everything. I think I got a little medicated from just being in the enclosed space. I can't stop laughing. I'm not sure if it's a buzz or if it's just hilarious how strong the smell is
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
Wow. This bud really has a strong smell when burned.
I chopped it all up today and placed in jars for the cure. I took a small piece of bud and took it into the bathroom. I torched the bud, but didn't smoke it. I just wanted to see how it smells.. It reallly stunk up everything. I think I got a little medicated from just being in the enclosed space. I can't stop laughing. I'm not sure if it's a buzz or if it's just hilarious how strong the smell is
i know true breeding is dificult especially w/ limited space like most of us.. i buy seeds in packs of ten. and normally plant all ten to find the best male and female, cross plant roughly 15-20 of those find best female, use original male to pollenate, plant 15-20,find best female again and repeat till cubed, then plant seeds to see if they are uniform, most times they are after 3 crosses but sometimes it takes another back cross or 2..i try to bring all f1's i buy to uniform true breeds ,then keep 100 seeds for the future to do crosses or whatever. so no strain i buy really gets lost, but i still dont have the time to isolate genes, i just pick the best as far as smell, stature, and production..i know real breeders can use hundreds of seeds and isolate genes but what i do is good enough for me..i respect breeders, i know the work that goes in, i just feel like i should get what i pay for, if i read that the plant will look and smell,produce a certain way ,i feel duped when i grow it and its nothing near what it was claimed to be..i would think all of us seed hoarders would feel this way..especially knowing that after all the backcrossing is done, a single mother can produce thousands of seeds..i also know when buying f1 hybrids each seed will differ, but they should all be at least worth wile to grow, not turn out like ditch weed...i buy alot of landraces and truebreeds also to save myself time, and if as some strains are so expensive ill buy a few feminized,,those are the ones ive been fucked on most, buy 3-4 fems, plant em and none are what the strain claimed to be..its my feeling most seeds sold should be true breeds,uniform hybrids, rather than f1's w variation between plants, iknow what about hybrid vigour? in my expierince they dont grow,perform or mature much faster than a uniform hybrid..Once again i do respect breeders i just feel we as a colective should get the strain we pay for at least..
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
many of the seedbanks today are owned n operated by peple who worked at sensi in the past. like u said though the seedbanks are suppose to preserve genetics...yet old strains are lost as nl5 as u said..i would think its obtainable again by using nl5xafghan and nl5xhaze if a seeds company knew what the original nl5 was by isolating the certain genes and breeding untill all the nl5 genes are there wile getting rid of the haze and afghan genes wright???im just saying it is possible if one who knew the strain were inclined to put in the work to do so...
Sativied
Well-Known Member
"if a seeds company knew what the original nl5 was",
That's why I said (in a post above) :
Theoretically doable with enough NL#5/Haze to get something close, but in reality downright impossible to get the NL#5 as it was.
The thing is, nobody knows what the original nl#5 was in terms of genetic make up, that data is simply not available in a form that someone can compare any attempt to recreate it to the real thing. There are many genes, and no single seed of those crosses contain the complete genetic profile, just a random half, so it's scattered across seeds. It just wouldn't be the same, it would be at most 'a' northern light but not the NL#5.
I think NL#5 was lost, don't know by who, don't know if sensi even got it from neville. Seed banks save genetics yes, but in seed form, NL#5 was clone only, while one can get NL, you can't get that same pheno the NL#5 crosses have been made with.
rob333
Well-Known Member
gdp all i can say or cinderella
TheHermit
Well-Known Member
I would like to see Sensi or Serious work on some of the modern strains. It would be interesting to see what an og or trainwreck would be like in the hands of a real breeder. I have always been impressed by the strains I have grown from Sensi. My only real complaint about the Dutch breeders is that it seems like they have stopped trying to come out with anything new in the last decade or so.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
i noticed even the regular nl differs from seed bank to bank, like all were created a bit differently..seedsmans nl is skunk x afgahanx haze.. most just say nl but their all different phenios..
Well, like I said in another thread....
Sensi didnt invent shit in a testtube.
Just like ALL breeders, they took the popular genetics going around at that time and crossed them.
They are no different than today's breeders who are taking the most popular strains and crossing them.
Pretty sure University of Mississippi did NOT give Sensi or Mr.Nice permission to use their G-13 and make crosses with it.
Sensi didnt invent shit in a testtube.
Just like ALL breeders, they took the popular genetics going around at that time and crossed them.
They are no different than today's breeders who are taking the most popular strains and crossing them.
Pretty sure University of Mississippi did NOT give Sensi or Mr.Nice permission to use their G-13 and make crosses with it.
When did Sensi ever cross anything? lul.
They bough all of their genetics from Neville, when he was fleeing to Australia.
G-13 from a lab in Mississippi...
sunny747
Well-Known Member
I wanted to update this... Last year i said I was dissapointed with SS and that it smelled fruity. i just finished a SS plant a few weeks ago and it is curing. The skunky smell is overwhelming. Could be better lighting, or a better seed, or curing process or even the Terpinator I have been using. Either way it STINKS!!!