Give A Hand Up not A handout, Lets Make Taxpayers Out Of Taxeaters

That is precisely what I am implying.

My remedy would be to lower everyone's marginal tax rate, put a moratorium on capital gains, responsibly reduce the amount of job killing federal regulations and put people back to work. Then I would ease the poor off government programs by giving them incentives to attend trade schools or other forms of higher education.

Now, what is your plan, more unemployment, disability and food stamps?

Why not raise capital gains taxes which are lower than the tax on wages, then lower the tax rate on wages so that the working poor and lower middle class get a break. Which federal regulations kill jobs? You do know that higher education is basically a scam now, right? Google "Law school scam" and look at how most law students who do not know somebody (AKA are rich) end up as indentured servants. Government programs like WIC and food stamps are absolutely needed to supplement income because guess what... Most of the decent jobs were sent overseas and what is left are low-paying Mcjobs because the minimum wage is set low to exploit workers. How about if we raise the minimum wage instead of pushing for everything the very wealthy and corporations want like less social programs?
 
Why not raise capital gains taxes which are lower than the tax on wages, then lower the tax rate on wages so that the working poor and lower middle class get a break. Which federal regulations kill jobs? You do know that higher education is basically a scam now, right? Google "Law school scam" and look at how most law students who do not know somebody (AKA are rich) end up as indentured servants. Government programs like WIC and food stamps are absolutely needed to supplement income because guess what... Most of the decent jobs were sent overseas and what is left are low-paying Mcjobs because the minimum wage is set low to exploit workers. How about if we raise the minimum wage instead of pushing for everything the very wealthy and corporations want like less social programs?
Because lowering capital gains would spawn much more investment, investments means more jobs.
FYI, the working poor do not pay federal income taxes as it is.

Raising capital gains only puts money in the pocket of government, the idea is to put more money in the hands of the people and get the poor off the government teat. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to do away with all government programs that help the truly needy, but we do need to reduce the amount of people who depend on the government, there is no argument there.
 
what's not to get?

the 3 major components of the war on poverty were food stamps, medicare/medicaid, and an expansion of social security.

if grandma is just above the poverty level on her current SS check, she would be below the poverty line if you cut her check in half.

if you make just over poverty but had to pay for all your prenatal care and bills associated with your pregnancy, that kind of bill would put you well below the poverty line.

the work was done by researchers at columbia university. full methodology here: http://socialwork.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/file_manager/pdfs/News/Anchored SPM.December7.pdf

(not a rick roll)


Inflation is caused by coercive government and their buddies manipulating money. Much homelessness can be attributed to regulations that artificially restrict the natural supply and demand factors of housing needs and housing fulfillment. How you doing on that homework assignment on the Prussian School system...slave ?
 
Hey, here's more dispute resolution possibilities....


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The following is from The Stateless Society by Stefan Molyneux.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Dispute Resolution
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The fact that people still cling to the belief that the State is required to resolve disputes is amazing, since modern courts are out of the reach of all but the most wealthy and patient, and are primarily used to shield the powerful from competition or criticism. In this writer’s experience, to take a dispute with a stockbroker to the court system would have cost more than a quarter of a million dollars and taken from five to ten years – however, a private mediator settled the matter within a few months for very little money. In the realm of marital dissolution, private mediators are commonplace. Unions use grievance processes, and a plethora of other specialists in dispute resolution have sprung up to fill in the void left by a ridiculously lengthy, expensive and incompetent State court system.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Thus the belief that the State is required for dispute resolution is obviously false, since the court apparatus is unavailable to the vast majority of the population, who resolve their disputes either privately or through agreed-upon mediators.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]How can the free market deal with the problem of dispute resolution? Outside the realm of organized crime, very few people are comfortable with armed confrontations, and so generally prefer to delegate that task to others. Let’s assume that people’s need for such representatives produces Dispute Resolution Organizations (DROs), which promise to resolve disputes on their behalf.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Thus, if Stan is hired by Bob, they both sign a document specifying which DRO they both accept as an authority in dispute resolution. If they disagree about something, and are unable to resolve it between themselves, they submit their case to the DRO, and agree to abide by that DRO’s decision.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]So far so good. However, what if Stan decides he doesn’t want to abide by the DRO’s decision? Well, several options arise.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]First of all, when Stan signed the DRO agreement, it is likely that he would have agreed to property confiscation if he did not abide by the DRO’s decision. Thus the DRO would be entirely within its right to go and remove property from Stan – by force if necessary – to pay for his side of the dispute.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is at this point that people generally throw up their arms and dismiss the idea of DROs by claiming that society would descend into civil war within a few days.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Everyone, of course, realizes that civil war is a rather bad situation, and so it seems likely that the DROs would consider alternatives to armed combat.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]What other options could be pursued? To take a current example, small debts which are not worth pursuing legally are still regularly paid off – and why? Because a group of companies produce credit ratings on individuals, and the inconvenience of a lowered credit rating is usually greater than the inconvenience of paying off a small debt. Thus, in the absence of any recourse to force, small debts are usually settled. This is one example of how desired behaviour can be elicited without pulling out a gun or kicking in a door.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Picture for a moment the infinite complexity of modern economic life. Most individuals bind themselves to dozens of contracts, from car loans and mortgages to cell phone contracts, gym membership, condo agreements and so on. To flourish in a free market, a man must honour his contracts. A reputation for honest dealing is the foundation of a successful economic life. Now, few DROs will want to represent a man who regularly breaks contracts, or associates with difficult and litigious people. (For instance, this writer once refrained from entering into a business partnership because the potential partner revealed that he had sued two previous partners.)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Thus if Stan refuses to abide by his DRO’s ruling, the DRO has to barely lift a finger to punish him. All the DRO has to do is report Stan’s non-compliance to the localcontract-rating company, who will enter his name into a database of contract violators. Stan’s DRO will also probably drop him, or raise his rates considerably.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]And so, from an economic standpoint, Stan has just shot himself in the foot. He is now universally known as a man who rejects legitimate DRO rulings that he agreed to accept in advance. What happens when he goes for his next job? What if he decides to eschew employment and start his own company, what happens when he applies for his first lease? Or tries to hire his first employee? Or rent a car, or buy an airline ticket? Or enter into a contract with his first customer? No, in almost every situation, Stan would be far better off to abide by the decision of the DRO. Whatever he has to pay, it is far cheaper than facing the barriers of existing without access to a DRO, or with a record of rejecting a legitimate ruling.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]But let’s push the theory to the max, to see if it holds. To examine a worst-case scenario, imagine that Stan’s employer is an evil man who bribes the DRO to rule in his favour, and the DRO imposes an unconscionable fine – say, one million dollars – on Stan.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]First of all, this is such an obvious problem that DROs, to get any business at all, would have to deal with this danger up front. An appeal process to a different DRO would have to be part of the contract. DROs would also rigorously vet their own employees for any unexplained income. And, of course, any DRO mediator who corrupted the process would receive perhaps the lowest contract rating on the planet, lose his job, and be liable for damages. He would lose everything, and be an economic pariah.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]However, to go to the extreme, perhaps the worst has occurred and Stan has been unjustly fined a million dollars due to DRO corruption. Well, he has three alternatives. He can choose not to pay the fine, drop off the DRO map, and work for cash without contracts. Become part of the grey market, in other words. A perfectly respectable choice, if he has been treated unjustly.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]However, if Stan is an intelligent and even vaguely entrepreneurial man, he will see the corruption of the DRO as a prime opportunity to start his own, competing DRO, and will write into its base contract clauses to ensure that what happened to him will never happen to anyone who signs on with his new DRO.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Stan’s third option is to appeal to the contract rating agency. Contract rating agencies need to be as accurate as possible, since they are attempting to assess real risk. If they believe that the DRO ruled unjustly against Stan, they will lower that DRO’s contract rating and restore Stan’s.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Thus it is inconceivable that violence would be required to enforce all but the most extreme contract violations, since all parties gain the most long-term value by acting honestly. This resolves the problem of instant descent into civil war.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Two other problems exist, however, which must be resolved before the DRO theory starts to becomes truly tenable.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The first is the challenge of reciprocity, or geography. If Bob has a contract with Jeff, and Jeff moves to a new location not covered by their mutual DRO, what happens? Again, this is such an obvious problem that it would be solved by any competent DRO. People who travel prefer cell phones with the greatest geographical coverage, and so cell phone companies have developed reciprocal agreements for charging competitors. Just as a person’s credit rating is available anywhere in the world, so their contract rating will also be available, and so there will be no place to hide from a broken contract save by going ‘off the grid’ completely, which would be economically crippling.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The second problem is the fear that a particular DRO will grow in size and stature to the point where it takes on all the features and properties of a new State.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This is a superstitious fear, because there is no historical example of a private company replacing a political State. While it is true that companies regularly use State coercion to enforce trading restrictions, high tariffs, cartels and other mercantilist tricks, surely this reinforces the danger of the State, not the inevitability of companies growing intoStates. All States destroy societies. No company has ever destroyed a society without the aid of the State. Thus the fear that a private company can somehow grow into a State is utterly unfounded in fact, experience, logic and history.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]If society becomes frightened of a particular DRO, then it can simply stop doing business with it, which will cause it to collapse. If that DRO, as it collapses, somehow transforms itself from a group of secretaries, statisticians, accountants and contract lawyers into a ruthless domestic militia and successfully takes over society – and how unlikely is that! – then such a State will then be imposed on the general population. However, there are two problems even with this most unlikely scare scenario. First of all, ifany DRO can take over society and impose itself as a new State, why only a DRO? Why not the Rotary Club? Why not a union? Why not the Mafia? The YMCA? The SPCA? Is society to then ban all groups with more than a hundred members? Clearly that is not a feasible solution, and so society must live with the risk of a brutal coup by ninja accountants as much as from any other group.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]And, in the final analysis, if society is so terrified of a single group seizing a monopoly of political power, what does that say about the existing States? They have a monopoly of political power. If a DRO should never achieve this kind of control, why should existing States continue to wield theirs?[/FONT]​




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Why not raise capital gains taxes which are lower than the tax on wages, then lower the tax rate on wages so that the working poor and lower middle class get a break.
Everyone would just liquidate, causing the economy to instantly crash around the world, bring global economic suffering the world hasn't seen since the dark ages. If I knew next year I would be paying 50% tax on my paper investments, I could turn all those investments into cash and then just horde all the cash, as would just about anyone with any sense. Then wait a few years as prices crash and deflation takes a firm grip. Once prices are pennies on the dollar, buy everything in sight with the huge amounts of capital sitting in the mattresses of the wealthy and end up owning the 9% of the 10% wealth that the bottom 90% owns now. That way the bottom 90% will only have 1% of the wealth and a new permanent underclass can form. It will be Orwellian/hunger games type of world we can live in, where the wealthy and well connected have everything, and everyone else is barely able to keep themselves fed.

All you need to be in better shape than 70% of the nation is to have $1 in savings and zero debt.

70% of people have nothing at all once you deduct what they owe. Since most banks operate on capital gains from many of their investments, plus insurance companies and other lords of finance, making a major change in how much profit they can make will probably have some negative secondary effects.

I don't think its such a great idea.

Raising the minimum wage has no effect on the poverty rate, look at the number of people as a percentage of the population now, compared to other points in the history of the USA. If raising the min wage really did make people better off, you should have seen it by now.

Lowering tax rates, shrinking government, and reducing some irrational regulations are what will produce the economic stimulus that is needed. Forcing people to be responsible for themselves and not others will ignite the power of ideas and imagination needed to thrust us into a new golden age of prosperity.
 
it's pretty clear that the right has nothing but THEORY which, since their theories remain completely unproven and entirely hypothetical with no actual examples of success in the real world, make them TALKING POINTS.

whereas all i have is a ton of EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE to prove that the war on poverty has worked, especially for seniors and children, the most vulnerable segments of our society.

maybe thomas sowell will one day have something to say that has basis in reality rather than talking points, until then you guys are just listening to a beneficiary of welfare for right wing partisan hack writers.
 
Lowering tax rates, shrinking government, and reducing some irrational regulations are what will produce the economic stimulus that is needed. Forcing people to be responsible for themselves and not others will ignite the power of ideas and imagination needed to thrust us into a new golden age of prosperity.

citation needed.

since you have no citation to provide, it makes your theory unfounded.

since your theory is entirely unfounded and without basis in reality, it makes it a talking point.

YAWN.
 
The question: Wherefore doth thine nonaggression principal reconcile upon exclusive deed regarding innate wherewithal brethren?

Stephan Molyneux' answer: property is property is property.
 
Because lowering capital gains would spawn much more investment, investments means more jobs.

citation needed.

how did it work when jimmy carter slashed capital gains? did prosperity fall from the sky when carter lowered the living shit out of capital gains?

does carter's lowering of capital gains provide empirical evidence for your unfounded theory, or is your theory still unfounded and without basis in reality whatsoever?

talking points.
 
Don't get hung up on Buck's numbers.

yes, let's ignore EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

perhaps we can focus on unfounded talking points instead?

let's see....


It's Keynesian thinking that no senior would have changed their lifestyles and saved for retirement instead of starving later in life. The assumption is that everyone receiving welfare would just lay there like baby birds waiting to be fed instead of finding a way to feed themselves.

Presently if a single parent had to make 30K a year to replace the living welfare gives them, working an entry level job could actually make them worse off financially. If those people had taken that entry level position, they could have advanced to the middle class and self-sufficiency, with welfare, they are stuck. It's made up numbers to justify an ideology.

No doubt some people would be struggling hard without government assistance, but trying to quantify how many is an arrogant approach that you can predict human behavior. The prediction the study makes is that all welfare recipients are only on welfare because they can't help themselves. If instead of just handouts, we had gone with life training instead, there is no telling where poverty would be now.

cliffs: The assumption those numbers Buck posted is that all welfare people are just pitiful losers not capable of anything else, and that seniors who plan retirement around SSI would not have changed habits and planned differently.

I have more faith in my fellow man and the arrogance of Keynesians is astounding. If we could actually predict human behavior the stimulus predictions would have been correct and we'd have trillionaires in the markets.

yep, nothing but 100% talking points with no basis in reality. who would have seen that one coming?

:lol:

the arrogance of dumbasses with shitty talking points is astounding.

one might even say these talking point economists are quite uppity.
 
The question: Wherefore doth thine nonaggression principal reconcile upon exclusive deed regarding innate wherewithal brethren?

Stephan Molyneux' answer: property is property is property.

I appreciate that you are engaging in the intellectual conversation. It is refreshing. I have pondered the question myself and have yet to cast in stone my thoughts. It involves extracting oneself from the present paradigm and looking at things from a different point of view. Albeit, I like some of what Molyneux has to say, but that doesn't mean everything he says is spot on.

Ownership of land I can see as possibly distinct from ownership of self and other possessions as there are morality issues to consider. I believe the idea some put out there is if you manipulate (transform) the land to something useful, you have created property and become the rightful owner. What say you?
 
I need to post citations that backup quotes by President Johnson, really!

no, but your nonstop spamming of foxnews and theblaze and now the beneficiaries of welfare for shitty right wing writers should be cited.

unless, of course, you're embarrassed to be citing such shitty, partisan, idiotic sources.
 
My remedy would be to lower everyone's marginal tax rate, put a moratorium on capital gains, responsibly reduce the amount of job killing federal regulations and put people back to work. Then I would ease the poor off government programs by giving them incentives to attend trade schools or other forms of higher education.

more talking points.

seductive to dumbass partisans, completely without basis in reality.

just like how all those lazy homeless people simply refuse to work. nevermind the underlying reality of mental and physical handicaps within the homeless community, focus on the seductive, shiny, pretty talking point.

you guys are dumber than fucking horses.
 
Did you post all that garbage just to fill up the page, because it definitely doesn't explain how the poverty rate has dropped by 50% as you claimed.

In 1965 the poverty rate was 15%, 50 years later, the poverty rate is, 15%.

Derp de derp

caveman beenthere no need big words. caveman beenthere hate big words!

big words bad! caveman beenthere not read!

ugga bugga ugga bugga.
 
more talking points.

seductive to dumbass partisans, completely without basis in reality.

just like how all those lazy homeless people simply refuse to work. nevermind the underlying reality of mental and physical handicaps within the homeless community, focus on the seductive, shiny, pretty talking point.

you guys are dumber than fucking horses.

Then lets hear your plan, give us some insight to Buckonomics, should everyone drop out of college, make 50,000 posts on a stoner forum and become unemployed?
 
Then lets hear your plan, give us some insight to Buckonomics, should everyone drop out of college, make 50,000 posts on a stoner forum and become unemployed?

you didn't start a thread asking for answers, you started a thread calling the war on poverty a failure.

i don't need to provide anything else besides rebuttal to your false assertions and watch you flap like a sheet in the wind.

a very, very white sheet.
 
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