clone of a clone of a clone of a clone.....

YouGrowBoy · Sep 6, 2009

I have an advanced cloning question. Is it ok to be taking clones of clones going on for many generations?

Usually, right before going to flower, I'll take some lower branches from a clone to start the next crop. When these clones are ready to flower, I'll take some more and repeat the process again. This means having no mother.

How many generations can this process go on and will the deeper generation clones start to have any problems?

Thanks, YGB

Cane'Bosem · Sep 6, 2009

YouGrowBoy said:
I have an advanced cloning question. Is it ok to be taking clones of clones going on for many generations?

Usually, right before going to flower, I'll take some lower branches from a clone to start the next crop. When these clones are ready to flower, I'll take some more and repeat the process again. This means having no mother.

How many generations can this process go on and will the deeper generation clones start to have any problems?

Thanks, YGB

Ive read this question sooo many times... but im still gonna answer it...
Clones will never have problems that the original plant didnt have. its a clone... that means its the same plant, just growing on its own now. same genetics, unchanged forever.

dgk4life · Sep 6, 2009

more then fine to repeat cloning on clones. the most important thing to remember is to choose your original mother plant wisely.. look for characteristics that u want ..high yeilder short height etc.... but no matter how times u clone a clone it is still the same genetic copy of the original plant

MrFishy · Sep 6, 2009

I've been cloning the same re-veg clone for goin' on 3 years now and haven't noticed any degradation of the species. I'm probably on generation 25 with very healthy vegged plants.

whutever · Sep 6, 2009

Hmm.. as far as I know plants have the same problems as humans.. but im not sure.. though a plant may have the same genetics, the DNA is always being damaged (failure when copying amino acids into DNA), but whilst still repairing itself it cant maintain the ratio of damage to "heal".. so the the longer the same DNA has been copied (cells) the less chance the plant will have of continuing its abilities such as fighting off mold, insects. etc.. its something that is studied right now on living organism were they try to stress a organism (mostly bacteria) to make it "heal" faster then its being damaged.. however im not sure how or if it applies to plants.. but still.. worth mentioning i think

EDIT: Oh.. and btw., i don't know how long time it takes before a vital change is made!

YouGrowBoy · Sep 6, 2009

So we have 3 people saying it's not a problem and 1 that says it could be.

erkelsgoo420 · Sep 6, 2009

I'm with the one.. Its is unlikely however I have personally had them become depressed. Lack of vigor or potency or both. It kinda comes down to about every factor u can imagine. I am still doing this and it is working great with my strain but I can tell u sensi star (at least mine) only took 6 gens to depress. So to answer ur question. YES u can clone a clone and its not likely ull see any adverse effects BUT it IS POSSIBLE for things to go south. Something about a dna alteration or mutation or something I'm not botanist just speakin of personal experience

RickWhite · Sep 7, 2009

whutever said:
Hmm.. as far as I know plants have the same problems as humans.. but im not sure.. though a plant may have the same genetics, the DNA is always being damaged (failure when copying amino acids into DNA), but whilst still repairing itself it cant maintain the ratio of damage to "heal".. so the the longer the same DNA has been copied (cells) the less chance the plant will have of continuing its abilities such as fighting off mold, insects. etc.. its something that is studied right now on living organism were they try to stress a organism (mostly bacteria) to make it "heal" faster then its being damaged.. however im not sure how or if it applies to plants.. but still.. worth mentioning i think

EDIT: Oh.. and btw., i don't know how long time it takes before a vital change is made!

What you saying makes sense but it appears that plants don't have this problem. Understand however that you are referring to somatic DNA (that responsible for meiosis). Mitosis uses a perfect copy to produce offspring.

What seems to be the case with clones is that the plant regenerates from the original DNA just as in mitosis and produces a new born baby clone just as if it produced a seedling.

I think the technique of using somatic DNA caused this issue but it doesn't seem this applies to plant clones. Also, I don't think they even do that anymore. I could be wrong because it's been a long time since I last looked into it.

Anyway, I know a guy with a strain that is 5 years old and each cutting is like a brand new plant.

freddiemoney · Sep 8, 2009

I've kept clones of clones for years, IMO the main factor to keeping the copies as close as possible to the original is lack of environmental stress to keep the major mutations away. Stressed one mother out pretty badly and never had another well-behaved clone generation after. Other 2-4 year old strains which didn't feel the squeeze are still rock solid.

RickWhite · Sep 8, 2009

freddiemoney said:
I've kept clones of clones for years, IMO the main factor to keeping the copies as close as possible to the original is lack of environmental stress to keep the major mutations away. Stressed one mother out pretty badly and never had another well-behaved clone generation after. Other 2-4 year old strains which didn't feel the squeeze are still rock solid.

You may have carried over a disease of some kind. Cloning is about as much stress as you can put on a plant.

iivan740 · Sep 8, 2009

My opinion is that generational cloning in plants is a viable means of extending the life of the plant. There is such a thing as genetic drift within the plant world but for our purposes the likelyhood of seeing genetic drift in one of our plants is infinitesimal. I think infestations, disease, fungus, and infection will be more of a threat to your generational program than genetic drift.

hectorius · Sep 8, 2009

ive heard 48 generations till they degrade, so if you get clones a guy then you dont know how manytimes thats been cloned but if you start from seed and then clone then i wouldnt worry till 40 plus generations.

Trevor · Sep 8, 2009

In one of the recent high times (can't remember which, they are all stacked by my toilet) they said that clones will eventually start to lose vigor and potency when cloned for extended periods of time, but I have also heard of many people holding mothers or genetics for 4+ years. All in all, I'd say you are safe for a reasonable amount of time.

SlikWiLL13 · Sep 8, 2009

hectorius said:
ive heard 48 generations till they degrade, so if you get clones a guy then you dont know how manytimes thats been cloned but if you start from seed and then clone then i wouldnt worry till 40 plus generations.

48? that may be the most absurd thing ive heard all day. why not 47? or 52 for that matter? might it differ by strain or environment? or might it just be bullshit?

al b fuct claims to have been cloning off clones of the same mother for 9+ yrs.

i myself have run into some problems but im pretty sure its due to my taking a few clones a week of so into flower, then taking clones from them, then possibly taking more clones just into flowering. ive run into reoccuring hermie problems due to this and need to start with fresh seeds.

SlikWiLL13 · Sep 8, 2009

Trevor said:
In one of the recent high times (can't remember which, they are all stacked by my toilet) they said that clones will eventually start to lose vigor and potency when cloned for extended periods of time, but I have also heard of many people holding mothers or genetics for 4+ years. All in all, I'd say you are safe for a reasonable amount of time.

youve got those HT's right where they belong. now next time you grind one out, rip out a page and wipe because thats all its good for! :lol:

vapedg13 · Sep 9, 2009

hectorius said:
ive heard 48 generations till they degrade, so if you get clones a guy then you dont know how manytimes thats been cloned but if you start from seed and then clone then i wouldnt worry till 40 plus generations.

Thats a rediculous!!!!..............I have been cloning the same strain for over 18 yrs...the shit is still the bomb...I average 6 oz a plant

I pull starts 6 times a year ...never kept a mother plant... your looking at the 100+ generation of clone pulled ;-)

....18x6=108th gereration (clone of a clone of a clone 108 times)

Green Cross · Sep 9, 2009

hectorius said:
ive heard 48 generations till they degrade, so if you get clones a guy then you dont know how manytimes thats been cloned but if you start from seed and then clone then i wouldnt worry till 40 plus generations.

I've heard 300 times with no, genetic deterioration, but re-vegging mothers and taking clones in flower is quite a different story, 5 times and your yield suffers

Green Cross · Sep 9, 2009

vapedg13 said:
Thats a rediculous!!!!..............I have been cloning the same strain for over 18 yrs...the shit is still the bomb...I average 6 oz a plant

I pull starts 6 times a year ...never kept a mother plant... your looking at the 100+ generation of clone pulled ....18x6=108th gereration (clone of a clone of a clone 108 times)

Most people think their shit is "the bomb", but I think we have a winner! :bigjoint:

vapedg13 · Sep 9, 2009

Green Cross said:
I've heard 300 times with no, genetic deterioration, but re-vegging mothers and taking clones in flower is quite a different story, 5 times and your yield suffers

300 times..... I wont see that in my lifetime ..... it took me 18 years to get to 108 times.

300 cycles of clones of clones.....thats like 50 years of growing the same strain pulling 6 different clone cycles a year

RickWhite · Sep 9, 2009

I think that answers the question. That looks great BTW, Blueberry?

Obviously taking a clone is mainly if not completely a form of asexual mitotic propagation as opposed to a meiotic one so there is no degradation in DNA in general. Many organisms reproduce asexually, evidently plants posses this ability.

clone of a clone of a clone of a clone.....

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