Three Stadium Shelves - Vertical Weed Pyramid Of Power - HPS+LED vert

i have actually done a hps+led stadium grow. it could have went places, but my current location limits my lighting, so I couldnt pull it off.
i actually also did a hps vs led on either side of the room, and LED honestly held its own with the added little HPS light that was hitting them.

best of luck.

subbed as well.

I think the reason most people don't use LEDs for vert setups is because they aren't very good for them.

A 600w will put out X lumens in all directions per watt. An LED will provide similar #'s per watt, might be a bit better, but only in one direction.

They direct light in one direction and are really expensive. They also don't get as good penetration. 600's are pretty much the way to go IMO but you can do well with 400 or 1000s obviously. LED is more supplemental (which it appears is what you're using them for) IMO as they provide a little extra spectrum oomph. A bit expensive for that purpose, but they do last a long time I suppose.

I will be interested to see how yours turns out. Can't hurt to try, good luck.

leds actually have pretty good coverage. you dont need to put them right on top of the plants like some believe.
true that they may not penetrate as much, but lollipopping, lst, supercropping solves that issue.

a stadium style can actually benefit from directional lighting anyhow, at least how I had mine setup

Originally Posted by OGEvilgenius

I think the reason most people don't use LEDs for vert setups is because they aren't very good for them.

A 600w will put out X lumens in all directions per watt. An LED will provide similar #'s per watt, might be a bit better, but only in one direction.

They direct light in one direction and are really expensive. They also don't get as good penetration. 600's are pretty much the way to go IMO but you can do well with 400 or 1000s obviously. LED is more supplemental (which it appears is what you're using them for) IMO as they provide a little extra spectrum oomph. A bit expensive for that purpose, but they do last a long time I suppose.

I will be interested to see how yours turns out. Can't hurt to try, good luck.

I wasn't trying to say I wonder why no one uses them... HPS bulbs are perfect for vertical... I believe they are working on some LEDs that will work in a vertical setup more naturally, but that wasn't the point of this I did my last grow all LED, trust me -- they are NOT supplemental lighting -- I expect for the plants to get/use as much or more of the LED lighting than the HPS. I'm not really trying to prove anything to anyone, as I already know if I set the shelves and lights up properly, it's going to turn out fantastical with great yields... I do think it'd be useful to others to see what they might be able to accomplish. As for the LEDs, there is no investment, as I already own both the LEDs and HPS -- trust me when I tell you the LEDs are far easier on the electric bill, so the real expense would be setting up a new 1K light and paying for the electric for that... I do plan at some point to swap the 400w with a 600w -- I used to have a 600w and for me there is no comparison between a 600w and 400w -- it's like night and day as far as intensity -- I may even make that switch prior to them going to flower, mainly it depends on how much extra cash I want to invest. At this point my only real major expenses are more soil/nutes/pots and building these shelves. I do think if I finish with the 400w, it'll be nice to show what a simple 400w + LED could do, but I grew big quality plants last grow with just the LEDs so I'm not even sure that proves much. You could definitely set the LEDs up without the HPS (instead of their position in the diagram above the lights would form a triangle matching the shape of the outter triangle. It would work just as well.

As for penetration, they do well enough for me. I grow for a trained, even and full canopy, so the goal is always for the light to hit the top buds evenly and produce a lot of large colas. They definitely do do that. I got 3-4+oz/plant last round off of just LEDs from 5-6 week plants from seed. My goal is to get 1-2oz/plant this round (smaller pots and SOG), I expect that is very reasonable. Goal is to end up with between 1 and 2 lbs.

Originally Posted by vilify

i have actually done a hps+led stadium grow. it could have went places, but my current location limits my lighting, so I couldnt pull it off.
i actually also did a hps vs led on either side of the room, and LED honestly held its own with the added little HPS light that was hitting them.

best of luck.

IMO LED holds it's own with HPS watt for watt no problem. Not sure I buy into the claims that a smaller wattage LED somehow compares to a bigger wattage HPS from some manufacturers. Like I said, I got 3-4+oz/plant last round off just LEDs and not a dialed in grow (my first in a long time) - for all the claims on fluffy buds, my bud density was determined by the strain. Each was different, from airy to dense, just like under HPS. The only thing HPS is a lot better at IMO is vertical growing Hence the combo.

Originally Posted by vilify

leds actually have pretty good coverage. you dont need to put them right on top of the plants like some believe.
true that they may not penetrate as much, but lollipopping, lst, supercropping solves that issue.

a stadium style can actually benefit from directional lighting anyhow, at least how I had mine setup

I agree on added directional lighting for a stadium setup (at least in principle no experience ).

One thing I am still trying to figure out is how I'm going to suspend the lights -- when it was 2 shelves facing each other it was much easier -- was just going to get a clothes rack, hang the hps from the center and put the LEDs on the side supports -- but that will not work for this confiuration. I may have to build a support and attach to the ceiling - but that would make the configuration less mobile/adaptable.

Edit: Now that I think about it, when we are building the shelves it will probably not be too difficult to build a custom support structure for the lights.

Like this:

diagram3.png

Actually just realized this would probably be a better setup

diagram3.png

I also agree with that. I am currently in pre-planning stage for a custom 900watt LED light.
Going to put the myth's to rest, with my own choice of diodes, I think I can match, if not out-do an HPS.'
I never had an issue with fluffy buds under my LED, other than a few plants that were hit with heat issues, etc.

Yeah, your setup is quite different. Your solution seems like it would do the job.
I was running mine on 3 sides of the room, setup like you had originally planned, with the last connection between the 2 facing eachother on the 3rd wall.
Running the hps vert in the center, you could do:
Untitled drawing.jpg

i think that is a detailed enough drawing to show what i mean. picture has words on the left pic to show what is a leg and what is an arm.
essentially building like an artificial glass tube for the HPS. 3 wood/metal posts around the HPS, maybe some treated glass or whatever and a fan could be added for removing heat

Are you building your own LED or buying one with customized spectrums (like apollo)? I definitely wish there were more whites in mine (for intensity) -- it's one reason i like the veg -- it has more white and the blue offsets the red it's just more intense.

Your setup would also work... i think the triangular 2nd version i came up with works best for suspending the HPS in the middle without blocking the light from reaching the plants though as well as stability. of course it'll be on wheels as well

As far as putting the myth to rest, doesn't matter what you do some people are never gonna admit an LED can match HPS and for most the cost is the big factor as well -- but i'm saving a lot on electricity, and the cost was less than the value of the first harvest, even at wholesale rates.

Originally Posted by vilify

I also agree with that. I am currently in pre-planning stage for a custom 900watt LED light.
Going to put the myth's to rest, with my own choice of diodes, I think I can match, if not out-do an HPS.'
I never had an issue with fluffy buds under my LED, other than a few plants that were hit with heat issues, etc.

Yeah, your setup is quite different. Your solution seems like it would do the job.
I was running mine on 3 sides of the room, setup like you had originally planned, with the last connection between the 2 facing eachother on the 3rd wall.
Running the hps vert in the center, you could do:
Untitled drawing.jpg

i think that is a detailed enough drawing to show what i mean. picture has words on the left pic to show what is a leg and what is an arm.
essentially building like an artificial glass tube for the HPS. 3 wood/metal posts around the HPS, maybe some treated glass or whatever and a fan could be added for removing heat