Wooly Aphids.............and how much neem oil/Dr Bronners can an apple tree take?

DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
This is both a question to anybody with direct experience on the subject and an experiment.

Here's the espaliered tree in question, it's of a good age and in need of a severe pruning. It's absolutely loaded with immature fruits, but it's equally loaded with Wooly Aphids.
20170601_183747.jpg 20170601_183858.jpg 20170601_183845.jpg


................ this is what they look like. I was initially treating the problem with compost tea drench and spray because I initially thought it was a fungal infection................If you've not seen them before, I think you'll understand why.
20170601_183541.jpg 20170601_183515.jpg 20170601_183411.jpg
They basically latch onto a vulnerable part of a branch, suck sap out of the tree and produce a protective layer of some kind of waxy substance to deter predators. These photos were taken 5 days after the 1st application of neem/soap spray, which I didn't record concentrations of because I was basically in panic mode when I found out what they were (I think I gave them 3Tbsp soap & 2Tbsp neem oil per 8L of spray). I ended up spraying 16 litres of the mix to get rid of all the fluff and give the aphids a good drench, which obviously hasn't had much effect.

This is a severe infestation, which must have been going on for a couple of years at least. I wish I'd got a photo before I sprayed them, it looked like it had been snowing FFS. I've read that in small numbers they're not really that much of a problem and nothing to worry about, but this is serious. It's obvious they're already causing branches to die so I'm either gonna kill the aphids with an increasingly strong mixture of spray or kill the tree trying.
 

Chef420

Well-Known Member
2.5ml dr bronners + 5ml neem oil/L is what I've used for white fly infestations exterior. It's a pretty harsh mixture so look for signs of burning and/or rinse in between applications but it works.
 

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
I've treated whooly aphid professionally. If those were my trees I would have blasted the aphids off with a high pressure sprayer. A garden hose with good pressure would have worked also. Then finished off with an oil spray. What works is the water pressure in removing the insects.
I've sprayed lilac bushes where you couldn't see the stems through the white fuzzy aphids. As I remember wholly aphid was a spring and fall problem so we treated twice a year.
 

ROOSTERMAN

Well-Known Member
Wooly aphids are a SOB once established . . .

Sometimes its best just to sacrifice the tree, if thats the primary one infected.

I have used imidacloprid on mild cases with some success, Their is some other stuff thats injected straight into the tree that susposto work very well but you are susposto have a goberment bribe to get it
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Wooly aphids are a SOB once established . . .

Sometimes its best just to sacrifice the tree, if thats the primary one infected.

I have used imidacloprid on mild cases with some success, Their is some other stuff thats injected straight into the tree that susposto work very well but you are susposto have a goberment bribe to get it
haha sounds adventurous, love how the bribe is the prerequisite to getting one's hands on the stuff :D
Where is this? Cheers!
 

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
Wooly aphids are a SOB once established . . .

Sometimes its best just to sacrifice the tree, if thats the primary one infected.

I have used imidacloprid on mild cases with some success, Their is some other stuff thats injected straight into the tree that susposto work very well but you are susposto have a goberment bribe to get it
I understand it to have a minor toxicity on animals except some birds. I still wouldn't want it in any of my produce. I've treated dozens of wholly aphid cases and not once did we sacrifice a plant. They're ravenous but seasonal.
Most systemics are applied as drenches. I've also used Imidacloprid injections around the root flair on Hemlock for whooly Adelgid (aphid) but at a concentrated rate. Systemics last about a year.
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
I've treated whooly aphid professionally. If those were my trees I would have blasted the aphids off with a high pressure sprayer. A garden hose with good pressure would have worked also. Then finished off with an oil spray. What works is the water pressure in removing the insects.
I've sprayed lilac bushes where you couldn't see the stems through the white fuzzy aphids. As I remember wholly aphid was a spring and fall problem so we treated twice a year.
Ah thank you for the sense!
Physically removing pests when they get to such populations, yes!
What do you mean by oil spray?
Was it something specific to make the plants unattractive to them?

This is both a question to anybody with direct experience on the subject and an experiment.

Here's the espaliered tree in question, it's of a good age and in need of a severe pruning. It's absolutely loaded with immature fruits, but it's equally loaded with Wooly Aphids.
View attachment 3952812 View attachment 3952813 View attachment 3952810


................ this is what they look like. I was initially treating the problem with compost tea drench and spray because I initially thought it was a fungal infection................If you've not seen them before, I think you'll understand why.
View attachment 3952794 View attachment 3952796 View attachment 3952797
They basically latch onto a vulnerable part of a branch, suck sap out of the tree and produce a protective layer of some kind of waxy substance to deter predators. These photos were taken 5 days after the 1st application of neem/soap spray, which I didn't record concentrations of because I was basically in panic mode when I found out what they were (I think I gave them 3Tbsp soap & 2Tbsp neem oil per 8L of spray). I ended up spraying 16 litres of the mix to get rid of all the fluff and give the aphids a good drench, which obviously hasn't had much effect.

This is a severe infestation, which must have been going on for a couple of years at least. I wish I'd got a photo before I sprayed them, it looked like it had been snowing FFS. I've read that in small numbers they're not really that much of a problem and nothing to worry about, but this is serious. It's obvious they're already causing branches to die so I'm either gonna kill the aphids with an increasingly strong mixture of spray or kill the tree trying.
I got curious and read a bit about that woolly fluff they nest themselves in - genius, isn't it, so those buggers are hi n dry whilst sprayings and such! :D
So what I've used very effectively vs. white fly and also (normal) aphids probably won't work here either:
just a tablespoon of rapeseed oil per liter warm water + a drop of dishwashing detergent or some milk to help emulgate it.

But hey, that tree looks really nice elsewise (at least in the pix), doesn't look like it's suffering much at all (yet? ;) )
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
This is the tool I used for root flair injections
View attachment 3953214
Ahhh thank you!
Realizing that tree flare injections - if I understood correctly that it's directly into the tree? - is actually not what I'm going for, didn't know that was done :rolleyes:
I'm looking for something like this, a soil injector for applying to the roots halfway to the dripline - http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=563

lol also found this, from the turn to the 20th century

In my case, it's going to be for applications of compost tea and mycorrhizal innoculants :bigjoint:
 

DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
2.5ml dr bronners + 5ml neem oil/L is what I've used for white fly infestations exterior. It's a pretty harsh mixture so look for signs of burning and/or rinse in between applications but it works.
My first application was stronger than that and they're laughing at me,LOL :?
 

DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
Ah thank you for the sense!
Physically removing pests when they get to such populations, yes!
What do you mean by oil spray?
Was it something specific to make the plants unattractive to them?



I got curious and read a bit about that woolly fluff they nest themselves in - genius, isn't it, so those buggers are hi n dry whilst sprayings and such! :D
So what I've used very effectively vs. white fly and also (normal) aphids probably won't work here either:
just a tablespoon of rapeseed oil per liter warm water + a drop of dishwashing detergent or some milk to help emulgate it.

But hey, that tree looks really nice elsewise (at least in the pix), doesn't look like it's suffering much at all (yet? ;) )
The tree's got a 'split personality', LOL Half of it gets some decent sunlight and although the aphids are on the lower branches there, it's nowhere near as heavily infested or unhealthy as the side which doesn't get much sunlight. There is a lot of die back on the left hand side of the tree and I'm gonna have to look into how best to prune it back.
 

DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input folks.................my new bottle of neem oil has arrived so I'm gonna have a go at physically removing them with plain water in my pressure sprayer then giving the infected sites a heavier mix of neem oil, this evening.

After a little research into biopesticides I found this nice little fungus which might just be the answer to my problem
http://www.arbico-organics.com/category/beauveria-bassiana-beneficial-fungal-insect-control

After a little more research, it's very expensive and unavailable to the general public here in the UK
 
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DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
Ahhh thank you!
Realizing that tree flare injections - if I understood correctly that it's directly into the tree? - is actually not what I'm going for, didn't know that was done :rolleyes:
I'm looking for something like this, a soil injector for applying to the roots halfway to the dripline - http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=563

lol also found this, from the turn to the 20th century

In my case, it's going to be for applications of compost tea and mycorrhizal innoculants :bigjoint:
I can't believe the prices they charge for these devices for horticulture, $500??? I bet I could DIY one for $50-60 with a good quality pressure sprayer and the right piece of metal tube
 

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
Ahhh thank you!
Realizing that tree flare injections - if I understood correctly that it's directly into the tree? - is actually not what I'm going for, didn't know that was done :rolleyes:
I'm looking for something like this, a soil injector for applying to the roots halfway to the dripline - http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=563

lol also found this, from the turn to the 20th century

In my case, it's going to be for applications of compost tea and mycorrhizal innoculants :bigjoint:
The injector I posted a photo of is the exact same thing. Goes in about 8 to 10" into the soil near the trunk ...there's another device (we used it for disease control, not insecticides) that goes into the zylem just beneath the bark.
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input folks.................my new bottle of neem oil has arrived so I'm gonna have a go at physically removing them with plain water in my pressure sprayer then giving the infected sites a heavier mix of neem oil, this evening.

After a little research into biopesticides I found this nice little fungus which might just be the answer to my problem
http://www.arbico-organics.com/category/beauveria-bassiana-beneficial-fungal-insect-control

After a little more research, it's very expensive and unavailable to the general public here in the UK
How much for the fungus, there, DonB! Or is it right unavailable in the UK there!? Glad you got a good neem application in, looking forward to the results.. fuck these bastards are serious I hope you win this battle brotha
 

DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
How much for the fungus, there, DonB! Or is it right unavailable in the UK there!? Glad you got a good neem application in, looking forward to the results.. fuck these bastards are serious I hope you win this battle brotha
It's not available here and damn expensive to boot, another thing that puts me off, is adding a 'foreign' fungus to the system that kills insects. It might kill the baddies, but it may also kill a lot of the good guys too, there may well be a good reason it's not available here. Our government or the EU has banned a lot of insecticides, both chemical and biological in the last few years, in an attempt to stop the massive decline in bees here, they even banned BT
 
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