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winterizing liquid?

Discussion in 'Concentrates and Extracts' started by shanebot, Sep 10, 2013.

  1.  
    shanebot

    shanebot New Member

    So this part has me confused and a lil scared. Bought a bottle of Everclear but it is the 151 proof, not sure if that will work. Been reading to use ethanol, but looking online seems like there is other stuff like methanol sometimes present. How does this look http://www.amazon.com/Denatured-Alc...TF8&qid=1378800717&sr=8-10&keywords=190 proof Buying everclear online is cost prohibitive vs just buying the chemical Im looking for. Am I understanding this right?
  2.  
    colonuggs

    colonuggs Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't use it
  3.  
    vacpurge

    vacpurge New Member

    yeah you need 190 proof everclear. exact same bottle... just 190 proof.
  4.  
    Fadedawg

    Fadedawg Well-Known Member

    It would be more salubrious to bite the bullet and use 190 proof Everclear and is what we use. Is this for personal consumption, or will others be sharing it with you?

    You can remove the denatured alcohol below levels of toxic concern, but first you need to see what was added to the ethanol to denature it.

    Some things are easier to remove and are less toxic than others, and sometimes they add embittering agents that are hard to remove, to discourage drinking it.
  5.  
    shanebot

    shanebot New Member

    Read more, ill stick with everclear. Any reason not to use 151 other than just having extra water to remove?
  6.  
    Fadedawg

    Fadedawg Well-Known Member

    Not for winterizing. Way more problems extracting with low concentrations.
  7.  
    oilmkr420

    oilmkr420 Active Member

    I bought 200 proof UNDENATURED, from ebay. The shit cost $103 a gallon.
  8.  
    Twitch.

    Twitch. Well-Known Member

    no you didnt.....
  9.  
    Texas(THC)

    Texas(THC) Active Member

    Hahaha
    Im always excited to hear the next comment after oilmkr420
  10.  
    shanebot

    shanebot New Member

    Gave it a shot, used one trim packed turkey baster load, yielding sub 1g combined with 151. lets see
  11.  
    Twitch.

    Twitch. Well-Known Member

  12.  
    SaybianTv

    SaybianTv Member

    Do the work find a lab with proper 15% methanol 85% ethanol mix. Methanol is not going to bite you worse than any other solvent, she'll be on her way before your ethanol get's to shaking. It's not a crime to buy and you can get them to confirm the material safety data and clear any fears of non volatile solvents. Even if things were to go ultra manky your problem would be with ethanol making you ill from a crum bum purge. Getting everclear is much harder to get for most people trying to spread the concentrate movement in new areas, but every place that has a university has a lab. Just so I don't burn in hell im going to say it again, LAB. not the purple stuff, not anything that doesn't come with a safety sheet or at least one guy in the back with a white coat.

    Otherwise I honestly don't know, I don't have the vision to import everclear from out of province and the 151 i saw at the liquor palace had captain morgan's orange sauce in it. It's always easier across some border, but once I had faith in my lab and I watched the methanol leave before the ethanol headed down the condenser I was satisfied
  13.  
    Fadedawg

    Fadedawg Well-Known Member

    Methanol isn't all that tasty and is easy to remove from ethanol until it reaches azeotropic balance, after which it evaporates at the same rate, so proper purging would be that much more important.

    We get a little methanol in our orange juice, as it comes from fruit pectin, but very much attacks the optic nerve and central nervous system, in addition to the liver.

    You mentioned the word providence, leading me to believe that you may be outside the US, so the following may not apply:

    For all of ya’ll living where 190 proof isn’t readily available, here are a couple sites that will ship most anywhere;

    East coasters check out, http://www.winechateau.com/

    West coasters, try http://organicalcohol.com/store/

    You might also consider building a refluxing still to bump your 151 Everclear to 190. With one you could also produce 190 proof from a sugar wash, at less than $10/L.
  14.  
    SaybianTv

    SaybianTv Member

    Fade that azeotropic balance, is that point based predictable given a know starting ratio? Im looking at it from a 15% stand point compared to the 85% i have to purge/vac out. I don't want anyone getting methanol poisoning because they vaped solvent filled goop and thought it would be fine because ethanol was technically edible. Im in the spot where I could technically distill up 151, but I'm spending enough time as it is staring at a hot plate so working with 2D seems like a dream cure for my budget via the proper glass to reclaim it all. Mmmm 10 bux a liter stimulates my permaculture diy bone, but 2D is 13 bux a liter and I get it when I top up of syringe filters. So i guess im extolling the virtue's of 2d because it fit's my model, and in british columbia it''s just not america in general in subtle ways. next day shipping cost a billion dollars but lab quality 2d is a 20 minute drive.
  15.  
    Fadedawg

    Fadedawg Well-Known Member

    The azeotropic balance is the point where the ethanol and the water are both boiling off at the same rate, as opposed to the lower boiling point alcohol leaving first.

    The azeotropic balance for ethanol is about 95.6%, unless you pull a vacuum on the still, and then the ethanol starts boiling off first again.

    If I could legally produce my own alcohol, I would in a heart beat. 190 proof is easy to find here, but still expensive at $37/1.75L, with a production cost of about $8/L if you were making it from a sugar wash.
  16.  
    SaybianTv

    SaybianTv Member

    So would I be correct in thinking that when I see the methanol flow rate slow down in the condenser and then the ethanol portion 85% start to act up that the shift is begining to go azeo? I've typicaly taken that to be the point where i release vacuum and pull vac again. I usually do this about 3 times because it's really obvious when methanol is moving while the vac is pulling vs ethanol which only act's up at a more full vac at room temps. I wasn't looking at it from a water distilling point of view so my mind was more set on catching multiple "forshot's" they call it? I forget if that's the term but it's the first cast off liquid methanol before the ethanol collection begins.

    Im going to find out how reasonable the sugar wash is, I'm happy with the 11 bux a liter I pay right now BUT. Im an off grid type so I should be doing this already cuzz at any moment my lab could become far far away. It's probably because i've been sober so many year's I don't have diy alcohol on my mind like I do other things.
  17.  
    shanebot

    shanebot New Member

    Ever clear 151 worked out ok, lot of water obvious when reducing the final product, it took awhile on the double boiler. Nice amber to black color, melts at room temp shatters like glass in the freezer. On the dab very nice, great smoke expansion, great effects. 1 turkey baster load, half a can of butane winterized got just over a gram of nice quality hoot.
  18.  
    Fadedawg

    Fadedawg Well-Known Member

    The biggest change is that the temperature in the top of the column rises as it shifts from one constitute to another. You are correct in calling the methanol and ethyl acetate fore shots.

  19.  
    shanebot

    shanebot New Member

    Smoke Report: wow, another day drying, it shatters crisp. Still a bit melty at room temp. Ever so slight aroma of ever clear, the room smells like cleaner is being used when it hits the nail. Lessons learned: get a higher proof, don't use as many stems, this process is awesome.
  20.  
    vacpurge

    vacpurge New Member

    winterizing is the BEST!!!! ive got a batch sitting in a filter in the freezer as I type... 6 more hours or so until I can smoke it ;) once you perfect it, youll be addicted. I know I am.

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