Why does the U.S give over $3 Billion dollars a year to Israel?

Jogro

Jogro

Well-Known Member
To answer the original question, its a bit complicated, but to simplify there are only two Western style Democracies in the Middle East, Israel, which is politically stable and a reliable US ally, and Iraq, which is relatively new. The USA has spent many times as much much money fighting for Democracy in Iraq than it has in Israeli foreign aid over the last 10 years. It also spends nearly as much (and for years it was exactly as much) on foreign aid to both Egypt and Jordan as it does on Israel.

For obvious reasons (or at least reasons that hopefully *should* be obvious) its in the interest of the USA to have one Democratic ally in the middle of a sea of fascist theocracies.

Massive foreign aid to Israel historically came about during the cold war era with Israel being the Western representative in the Middle East, with the Soviets backing Egypt as a Middle Eastern Satellite. The USA then basically bought off Soviet influence over Egypt with a massive foreign aid package that has continued to this day.

American aid to Israel helps to project Western power in the region.
For example, who took out Saddam Husseins nuke facility in 1981? Israel did, and was criticized globally for doing so, even though 30 years later it seems plain that it was a brilliant maneuver.
Who took out the North Korean-designed nuke plant in Syria in 2007?

Cynics derided George W. Bush as a lunatic cowboy for calling out an "axis of evil" linking Iran and North Korea in 2002, but as the unilateral Israeli destruction of the Syrian nuke plant showed, that's EXACTLY what was happening!

Anyway, one of the biggest reasons the USA supports Israel is because Israel has proven willing and capable of doing some of the geopolitical "dirty" work that needs to be done, that nobody else will or can do.
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
Exactly my point. Israel cant pay their bills either! So why not take the tax payer money that she has been paying for the last 50 years and "aid" her instead of mostly weapons money to Israel?
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Funds are fungible. Money is easily moved. You cannot enforce how foreign aid is spent. That has been a big argument by the ones who are suppossed to receive it. Around 20-25 percent has been the estimate on the percentage that actually goes to the intended causes.
 
J

jumpin' buffalo

Member
Jogro said:
To answer the original question, its a bit complicated, but to simplify there are only two Western style Democracies in the Middle East, Israel, which is politically stable and a reliable US ally, and Iraq, which is relatively new. The USA has spent many times as much much money fighting for Democracy in Iraq than it has in Israeli foreign aid over the last 10 years. It also spends nearly as much (and for years it was exactly as much) on foreign aid to both Egypt and Jordan as it does on Israel. .
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You can't compare Iraq to the perrenial aid package to Israel. Iraq is/was a war. The money we give Egypt and Jordon is a ramification of our aid to Israel.



Jogro said:
For obvious reasons (or at least reasons that hopefully *should* be obvious) its in the interest of the USA to have one Democratic ally in the middle of a sea of fascist theocracies. .
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Do we have to buy it? Secondly, the United States needs Israel like it needs a hole in the head.

Jogro said:
Massive foreign aid to Israel historically came about during the cold war era with Israel being the Western representative in the Middle East, with the Soviets backing Egypt as a Middle Eastern Satellite. The USA then basically bought off Soviet influence over Egypt with a massive foreign aid package that has continued to this day. .
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The last time I checked, the Cold War ended ,many years ago.

Jogro said:
American aid to Israel helps to project Western power in the region.
For example, who took out Saddam Husseins nuke facility in 1981? Israel did, and was criticized globally for doing so, even though 30 years later it seems plain that it was a brilliant maneuver.
Who took out the North Korean-designed nuke plant in Syria in 2007? .
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Israel did that stuff out of its own concerns for its own security interests.

Jogro said:
Cynics derided George W. Bush as a lunatic cowboy for calling out an "axis of evil" linking Iran and North Korea in 2002, but as the unilateral Israeli destruction of the Syrian nuke plant showed, that's EXACTLY what was happening!.
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Spin.

Jogro said:
Anyway, one of the biggest reasons the USA supports Israel is because Israel has proven willing and capable of doing some of the geopolitical "dirty" work that needs to be done, that nobody else will or can do.
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I repeat, the United States needs Israel like it needs a hole in the head.
 
Jogro

Jogro

Well-Known Member
jumpin' buffalo said:
You can't compare Iraq to the perrenial aid package to Israel.
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Why not? Both still represent tax dollars being spent in US foreign policy in the Middle East. The spending on Iraq hasn't stopped yet, either.

In terms of direct financial aid, Iraq has its own massive oil reserves and doesn't really need financial support. What it needs/needed is direct military support to oust the old gov't, stabilize things, and set up a new one.

You complain about $3B a year in foreign aid to Israel, yet the current administration has spent $1 billion on loan guarantees for a worthless solar power company, and over $14 billion to prop up still-failing General Motors.

The money we give Egypt and Jordon is a ramification of our aid to Israel.
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In part, but not in whole. The money we give Egypt was historically connected to taking them out of the Soviet orbit and keeping them out. Also, Egypt controls the Suez canal, and that's an important strategic asset.

Arguably, we get less of a return on investment for moneys sent to Egypt than we do Israel. Oddly enough, we never hear people complaining about the waste of US foreign aid to Egypt, even though Egypt has been a corrupt thugocracy for decades.

Jordan? Outside of the Gulf-States, that country is probably the most anti-American in the middle-east. Again, I don't hear anyone asking for that foreign aid to stop.

Incidentally, if you define the Cold war as American/Soviet rivalry for global hegemony, then yes, its over. The Soviets lost. But if you take a more generalized view of it as American/Russian antagonism over regional hegemony and many other issues, then no, the conflict isn't really over.

Israel did that stuff [taking out rogue nuke plants] out of its own concerns for its own security interests.
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Of course it did, but Israeli security interests and American are aligned, that's the point. If they didn't do it, we'd have had to do it, or face the consequences of a rapidly escalating nuclear arms race in the Middle East. Between Israel, the Wahabbist Saudis, Saddamite Iraq, and Khomeinist Iran, the likelihood of an nuclear exchange would be higher than anywhere else in the world. That would still be true even if you took Israel out of the equation.

Don't forget that Iran and Iraq fought a bitter war for ten years, in which the Iranians eventually send small children on the battlefield to be gunned down by Iraqi machine guns. That's how "nuts" they are. Meanwhile Khomeinist Iran still has expansionist ideology, and they've established satellites, not only in Syria and Lebanon, but even now in the Western hemisphere in Venezuela.

You may not think having a reliable Western-style nuclear power as a US ally in the region is valuable, but I disagree.

Its just as much in America's interest to ensure that Middle Eastern despots don't have nukes than Israel's, in fact more so, since America is far more dependent on Middle Eastern oil than Israel (which is embargoed) is. Even if Israel didn't exist at all, this would still be true.

Do we have to buy it? [Israeli support]
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Israel would support the US (and has) without foreign aid, that's not the point. It would just be in a weaker financial and military position, so its support would mean that much less. No Israel = no support.

Unfortunately, the reality is that foreign support is often a "pay to play" proposition. If we don't bribe the Egyptians for their cooperation, then the Russians are perfectly willing to do so, or maybe the Iranians. Conversely, if we don't support Israel, its not just going to roll over and die. If its survival were at stake, Israel would seek out (and probably get) foreign support from Russia, or even China. Is that preferable from an American standpoint?

I think most Western foreign policy observers don't see expansion of Khomeinist Iranian hegemony as a "good thing".
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
Do you think 3 Billion a year could give a lot of people health care in the U.S?
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If it went to doctors and scientists doing worthwhile medical research and development yes-
If it went to insuring people- No, it would just make things worse
 
Smirgen

Smirgen

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
People are suffering in America, but we give Billions of American tax payer money to Israel? More foreign aid goes to Israel than any other country in the world! I dont mean to sound like Hilter was right, but who really controls America?

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America is bleeding profusely and everybody but Ron Paul wants to donate Americas blood.
 
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