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Why do my clones keep dying?

Discussion in 'Advanced Marijuana Cultivation' started by Hairy Bob, Aug 11, 2008.

  1.  
    Hairy Bob

    Hairy Bob Well-Known Member

    Ive been checking out the forums for a while now, and noticed most experienced growers (fdd, skunkushybrid et al) maintain that clones are tougher than most think and will grow if humidity and temps are kept within acceptable range.
    So why do my clones keep dying?
    Im using clonex rooting gel, cutting the plant in water to avoid air bubbles in the cut, planting in wet (but not soaking) soil, misting twice a day and keeping a makeshift humidity dome over em (keeps it above 70% rh in there). i cut all the leaves down to half size, and removed the lower nodes, but the first time i tried with the top of my bagseed plant it just fell over within 12 hours, left it for a week and it showed no signs of perking up so i pulled it up and no roots, nothing. Second time, 8 days ago i took 4 from the bottom of the same plant, using the same method, and they wilted slightly for 5 days then fell over, so i staked them upright, but the leaves look ready to drop off now. I've just left them be aside from misting them and leaving the cover off for 30 mins or so a day. Do they just need more time or should i pull them and try again? Frustrated cos I wanna start flowering in a week and i don't wanna lose this strain in case it's a good smoke, but I can't let the plant grow much bigger in the space I have.
    Sorry for lack of pics but i don't have a digicam, or a camera phone.
    Also sorry for rambling (rather stoned atm).
    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2.  
    gangjababy

    gangjababy Well-Known Member

    Maybe your soil is too wet causing stem rot, everything else you have described is the correct way to clone. Try cloning in peat pellets and see if there is an improvement. Some plants are harder to clone then others but you should have had at least one clone take root. You are giving it 24 hours of light, right? the light doesn't need to be too strong or close too the plants...
     
  3.  
    VictorVIcious

    VictorVIcious Well-Known Member

    Overwatering is the number one problem for new growers. Once a day is not enough time for you plants, they need air circulating around them more often than that. I have a thread that shows taking clones, I think I took about 170 at the time I posted that. Personally, I don't like the humidity domes for clones. The top of the plant doesn't need the extra temperature, its the roots that need to be a little warmer. I never could cut them well under water, maybe your damaging the stem by trying ? With what you described it sounds like you are not giving a place for roots to grow out of, like a leaf or two cut off and placed in your medium?? with your 45 degree angle cut below that ? Even the ones that don't make it last longer than what your talking. ?? Of course pix would help. VV
     
  4.  
    genfranco

    genfranco Well-Known Member

    try putting them in rockwool cubes (it kinda hold them a little better) ...i dont cut any of the leafs becuase i know that the plant uses the food in the leaves to survive till it grows roots... some rooting compound needs longer than other.... i have found that with the sruff i use it needs about 2 weeks to get roots out of the cube.... check out my 2nd grow journal for apic of my method....

    hell there are people like cheetah that just puts them in water suspended by some clear plastic on a glass and it roots.... maybe temps is an issue... and i feel like it does need to be very humid .... it works for me so just check it out....
     
  5.  
    DR. VonDankenstine

    DR. VonDankenstine Well-Known Member

    Brother go to AL. B FUCT's thread on cloning--he's got the shit down----you can then go into soil when they root...you could also make a hempy clone box---easy as 1.2.3.
     
  6.  
    Hairy Bob

    Hairy Bob Well-Known Member

    Thanks everyone, for all your quick replies.
    I think I'll leave em a while longer, but take the dome off since the rh stays above 60% in the room anyhow. Gonna keep the plant in veg as a mother i think, until I get the hang of this! I have 3 cheese plants (fem seeds from greenhouse seed co.) of which I'll flower two and keep the bushiest as a mother, so at least I'll have a harvest.
    I dont think lack of support is a problem, theyre a good 1 1/2" in the soil, oh and I made the cut right below a pair of nodes which are buried, so it should root from those right?
    I think they get enough light, theyre next to my 4 plants about 2' below a pair of 55w flouros, but not directly under the lights.
    Gonna have a go at air layering tonight, maybe take a couple more clones just to thin the plant out a bit, and try keeping them uncovered, and put less water in the soil this time.
    Will report back soon. ish...
    Also Victor, I made a straight cut when I took the cuttings, then held the end under water while i did the 45 degree cut about a 1/4" up from the original cut. Might have been the grow faq I saw that in but I can never be sure with my memory...
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2008
  7.  
    H&D

    H&D Active Member

    Mate I do everything wrong and never have I lost a single clone and have turned them into massive flowering girls which yeild awesomely ...

    1. I cut clones two weeks into flowering
    2. I dip em in clonex (not under water ...Never herd that one but hey )
    3. I place them in rockwool cubes (the large ones )
    4. I then let them sit under a 400w light (HPS) for 2 weeks NO HUMIDITY DOME
    5. I replant in large pots and leave them be for another 4 weeks ...
    6. then the join the big girls ...

    And no fans in my clone room but mild nutes is added to pH adjusted water ...
     
  8.  
    normlpothead

    normlpothead Well-Known Member

    Reading this, first i thought you weren't angling the cut, right under nodes...

    After reading, my guess is either:
    A. Your scissors aren't sharp
    B. The medium is too wet.

    I'd say it's the medium, try some rockwool cubes, or root plugs.

    I use root plugs, and roottech, a humidity dome under 100W flourecents, and never have a problem.
     
  9.  
    calicat

    calicat Well-Known Member

    Don't you think if you cut the fan leaves in half that would lessen the plants ability to transpire in the air.
     
  10.  
    calicat

    calicat Well-Known Member

    Another suggestion but it can be laborious is after you take the 45 degree cut. On the bottom of the stem you slice it in half prior to dipping in a root hormone solution. If you sever the cambium that way you increase the surface area where roots may sprout out rather than just the initial exposed area at the 45 degree angle.
     
  11.  
    Mowbuss

    Mowbuss Well-Known Member

    Hey, I started cloning as well, and I found that the humidity dome actually KILLED the clones I was attempting.

    I had a 100% success rate w/o dome outside and 0% success rate with the dome outside.

    I did not use rooting gel either.

    When first planting your clone in a Styrofoam cup for example, I always made sure when first placing it in that I DRENCHED the soil. Almost a full cup of water flowed through it, I then set it out in the sun.

    Living in Ontario, Canada.
     
  12.  
    Hairy Bob

    Hairy Bob Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the tip about splitting the stem calicat, I'll try that next time.
    Havn't taken any more yet, the older leaves were turning yellow from N deficiancy so I sprayed em with biocanna bio vega and its perked up.
    I know N inhibits root growth right? So i need to flush it out before taking more cuttings, but should it have a week or so being fed as normal before i flush it, to let it recover or can I flush again straight away to take more cuttings?
    Sorry if this has been covered but I can't seem to find info on it...
     
  13.  
    natrone23

    natrone23 Well-Known Member

    it took me a while to get cloning right, and after trial and air I now get about 95% clones. At first I tried putting the clones in rocwool and waiting for roots in a humidy dome nothing special just sprayed water in their a couple times a da......my results with this method was about 30% rooted clones in the rocwool, but I noticed with the non-rooted clones they would grow this white crust on the submerged tip of the clone kinda looks like a scab, but any ways there wernt any roots shooting out though, so what I do now is I follow the first way with rocwool and dome, spray water ect......and after about 5 to 10 days, I pull clone out of the rocwool (a few of them will root, so i leave them in) I pull it out of the rocwool and almost always it with have that white growth on the tip but no roots, heres the thing that worked great for me, I take the clones (remember no external roots) and plant them into there own pots, give the soil a liberal socking and in less than 5 days the clones will be rooted into their new soil and pots, works every time.............. and tried to put the clones directly into soil and they always dries out and dry.

    cloning gel or powder
    humidity dome (tuperware)
    rocwool
    spray water
    CFL
    soil with no nutes
     
  14.  
    genfranco

    genfranco Well-Known Member

    As you can see there are allot of different ways of doing it... i guess the best way is the way it works for you.... I have to say that after reading these posts it really has to do with your attention and environment. How is one going to refuse someone way...

    With the method i described i think that 1 has to do with the strain... 2 it has to do with what you use to encourage rooting. Some people can just stick them in soil water heavily and it roots... I think that has to do with the type of soil... and how often you maintain it wet.

    With my method you do have to spray down the dome a few times a day and ensure that the rockwool doesn't dry... but i think that the success is due to the cloning liquid i use... I prefer it over the powders and such as i can see how it gives it a better coat. by doing a liquid rooter you ensure that it all has coverage. This last time i tried and scraping the bottom 1/2 inch (the part i want to clone) of the stem ... It seems that by taking that first layer of skin the liquid is able to penitrate a lot better...

    try the product called dip n grow... its allot cheaper than the powders they sell and cloning gels... its like 7 bucks... and i have a very good success rate.... if they dont make it i can honestly say it has to do with me not maintaining the rockwool wet.


    good luck people.
     
  15.  
    spark1

    spark1 Well-Known Member

    I have used this method for over a year now and have had 100% success rate. I like the fact that once set up,you don't have to do anything but refill the 'rez'. No humidity dome,no misting. :peace:
     
  16.  
    Sarkar

    Sarkar Active Member

    I've been planting, not marijuana, and gardening for a long time and I have NEVER had any luck with cuttings growing in water. All my plant cuttings have thrived in soil though.

    This is my first time growing MJ and I have 1 mother plant, and 3 clones. Started w/5 had 2 in water which didn't root after 4 weeks but still perky and I got pissed and flushed those, and 3 in a mixture of miraclegro (60%) potting soil and (40)sand. I kept the soil just damp (not wet) to the touch. The sand helps drain the water esp if there's an overwatering situation. Sounds like you know how/where to get the cutting from. You may want to try the sand/soil mixture. Good luck. If you have time, you may want to practice growing your cuttings from a run of the mill plant, buy it from HomeDepot/Lowes/etc. Once you've mastered the technique, then try it w/your MJs. Good luck.
     
  17.  
    holmes

    holmes Well-Known Member

    i have a question for everyone. How many times can you clone?
    you cut a branch from a small mother plant.. you let it grow roots and match its mother's size when cut... can you cut a branch again?.. up to how many times?
     
  18.  
    MissBehavin

    MissBehavin Active Member

    I suggest you go to u-tube. I shit you not. Google it, and watch the videos.
     
  19.  
    born2killspam

    born2killspam Well-Known Member

    You can clone alot of generations.. Plant actual age is more important.. Remember a clone carries the maturity of its mother plant, although I'm not exactly sure if its rooting stasis time counts towards its aging after a cut.. There is a condition called genetic drift that is the result of imperfect copying of dna.. This most likely will never be an issue, but I've seen claims from experienced growers who say that mutations can begin to arise after too many generations.. (Usually 10th gen, or much higher).. I've seen healthy 26th generation clones though.. On your success rate, perhaps try taking much smaller cuttings.. The way I cut mine, the leaves are almost jammed into the soil with the stem, they could never dream of tipping, and the transport route through the stem is a really short commute.. Whether I'm using cubes, peat, soil, whatever, I 'soak' the medium with pH'd water.. Then I put them on a heating pad.. Ideally they start to lighten up from evaporation just in time to give air to the root tip when it forms.. If I see leave cannibalism (a good sign something is growing) while they are still sopping, then I try to tamp some water out of them gently.. As for the dome, I can take it, or leave it.. I usually make the choice based on temp rather than humidity.. As for wilting, you'd be surprised how ugly a cutting can get and still pull through to become a strong plant, but proper temps and spraying regime can keep them nice and crisp all the way through.. How big are your soil bits? Try to calibrate the size to the drying rate, to 5-14 days.. I've never bothered with underwater cutting either.. I really think thatembolisms are a rare cause of death, that gets the blame when a bad cut is really the culprit.. I always used an exacto-knife to re-cut just prior to dipping.. On the otherhand, my dad has pretty good success just biting the end, and sticking the cut in a freshly watered houseplant for a few days before he gets around to transplanting.. Lastly, some plants clone WAY easier than others.. Deer can clone plants successfully, if anything you're overdoing the assistive measures
     
  20.  
    beta0701

    beta0701 Well-Known Member

    Cloning is a trial and error process.

    It took me almost three months to finally figure out what works. But i finally got it down.

    Key factors

    1. Stable Temperature - clones need a stable environment, temps need to be constantly 75-80
    2. Moisture level - your medium can not be dripping wet, but it does need to be moist constantly
    3. Patience - clones take anywhere from 10-14 days to root, and sometimes even longer

    Also, i started to use a product called Jump Start made by advanced nutrients. Its a foliar feeding chemical that you mix up, about 30ml per Liter. I have found this product a lifesaver. I just spray my clones twice a day for 2 weeks and wallah, they root. I have increased my sucsses rates by nearly double since i have started using it. Heres a link to it. BUY IT. IT WILL HELP OUT.

    Jump Start link:

    High Tech Garden Supply
     

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