Which is more important, depth or square footage?

Angus

Angus

Well-Known Member
So I'm running some TGA strains this year in subcool's super soil. I have a couple spots, but one is absolutely perfect as far as seclusion and all-day light. Only problem is that after I get down 18-20 inches I hit a solid rock shelf that my back and matic are no mach for.

So I was thinking, if I were to dig a trench-like hole, say 18in deep by two feet wide by four feet long would that be just as good as having a deeper hole with the same amount of cubic footage? Is root space, simply root space?

If anyone has experience with something like this, plese chime in. You could make my season (and I'm sure a lot of others') a lot less stressful.

thanks ya'll
 
South Texas

South Texas

Well-Known Member
Your question is the same as "How long is a string?" There is no single answer. The answer is not digging a hole, a little hole, or a big hole. The answer resides soley upon the ability for the root system to function. If your soil is wonderful & great, just throw seeds in the wind. If the soil was nuted with chem, void of any microbial life and/or worms, Houston, we have problems. Of course a big hole dug, filled in with all the bells & whistles is the best of the best. Order seeds & ready-made soil on-line, instant, perfect solution. Do what you can do, then improvise. Me, can't dig holes. So,... while Babies are Poppin', I'm building the soil with manure, molasses, greensand, fish emulsion, epsom salt, etc. By the time I plant each plant, 6" deep, the soil will be ready for the root system. That's the best I can advise.
 
F

frmrboi

Well-Known Member
I have 12 foot tall bamboo growing in plastic half barrels that are only 18 inches deep and 2 feet wide. As long as they are watered and fed they'll thrive. If you can build up the height above ground (raised bed) that's good too.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Weed is an annual and 18" to 20" inches deep is PLENTY sufficient for an outstanding grow. If you were planting a tree I might be concerned but this sucker is going to be in the ground a mere eight months. :peace:


out. :blsmoke:
 
Bud Frosty

Bud Frosty

Well-Known Member
I would take a heavy spud bar to the bottom of the trench at least. The deeper you break it up the better.
 
T

tyro

Active Member
Plants will use whats there for them to use, thin soil cuts down on support and water holding as it can dry out, make sure to mulsh and if dirt is light plant support may be needed.
 
Angus

Angus

Well-Known Member
If a spud bar is a johnson bar than yeah, I tried it.

SouthTexas, I always enjoy reading your posts and there is always good info to take away from them. The soil there could hardly be called soil. It's mostly rock and some red mud. Shovel is futile, have to do everything with a small spade. The only thing I can do is go in pots again (not happening) or make do with what I have.

I guess the reason I worry is that my four inch seedlings in six-inch deep pots have roots hanging out the holes. I'll transplant at least another time before they go in the ground, probably to a pot with a depth around 12-14in. So when I transplant them to their final location, the roots will only go down a few more inches and hit a barrier. I'd assume that they'd reach out to the sides after that, but would they curve around and grow back up to all the virgin soil above and to either side?
 
humblegrizz

humblegrizz

Active Member
I think one of the problems you might run into is proper drainage, especially if there is a thick layer of rock 2 1/2 ft down like you describe. Depending on your climate, however, that might not be such a bad thing, as it would allow each watering to go further. Clay soil (which I am forced to deal with every year) has the same issue, but I have always had good results with a good amount of soil amendments (manure, compost, perlite, etc.) in a hole about the same size as yours. That being said, the raised bed idea is a very good one given you have the resources to build it, that way the roots would have another couple of feet of downward growth before they hit the rock, but given the resilience of our favorite plant I would not be surprised if you had exceptional results without a raised bed.
 
nickbbad

nickbbad

New Member
humblegrizz said:
I think one of the problems you might run into is proper drainage, especially if there is a thick layer of rock 2 1/2 ft down like you describe. Depending on your climate, however, that might not be such a bad thing, as it would allow each watering to go further. Clay soil (which I am forced to deal with every year) has the same issue, but I have always had good results with a good amount of soil amendments (manure, compost, perlite, etc.) in a hole about the same size as yours. That being said, the raised bed idea is a very good one given you have the resources to build it, that way the roots would have another couple of feet of downward growth before they hit the rock, but given the resilience of our favorite plant I would not be surprised if you had exceptional results without a raised bed.
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I agree you shouldnt have to much of a problem as long as they dont dry out. The raised bed if you can will def. help out. Anyways it should be fine, my friend does an outdoor every year on a cliff and he has great success the only problem he has is water which he has to bring up quite often when it hasn't rained in awhile because the soil does dry out a lot quicker when you can't go very deep with it. Good Luck!
 
Angus

Angus

Well-Known Member
humblegrizz said:
I think one of the problems you might run into is proper drainage, especially if there is a thick layer of rock 2 1/2 ft down like you describe. Depending on your climate, however, that might not be such a bad thing, as it would allow each watering to go further. Clay soil (which I am forced to deal with every year) has the same issue, but I have always had good results with a good amount of soil amendments (manure, compost, perlite, etc.) in a hole about the same size as yours. That being said, the raised bed idea is a very good one given you have the resources to build it, that way the roots would have another couple of feet of downward growth before they hit the rock, but given the resilience of our favorite plant I would not be surprised if you had exceptional results without a raised bed.
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It's more like a foot and a half to twenty inches. I'm really not too worried about drainage, I think it may even work to my favor.

It's a guerrilla grow and I don't think I could pull off a stealthy raised bed, unless I'm just thinking differently than everyone else.

I appreciate the replies, guys.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
People can grow very large plants in a 3 gallon pot which is only 12 inches deep, so no worries.... you'll be fine.


out. :blsmoke:
 
Angus

Angus

Well-Known Member
True, but not "large" like I'm after. With proper care, root space should be directly proportional to plant size above ground. My question isn't whether or not my plant is going to live, it's whether or not I will benefit from expanding the hole horizontally.
 
South Texas

South Texas

Well-Known Member
I've had to dig with the claw on a claw hammer, just to dig several inches. Either a back hoe or a gas operated, portable post hole digger would probably work. Took me a damn year, but here's my wierd plan. I found a decent, level spot with little top soil. I've been dumping cow manure, mollasses, green sand & epsom salt on the bare ground. When I get ready to plant, I will cut the bottoms out of the 3 & 5 gal. sorry-looking black Nursery Pots. I will set the containers about 6 inches apart directly on the soil, then, with a truck load of compost, pack compost between all the pots, one foot deep, to completely cover the pots, only the small plants will be seen. Then add a lot of good stuff, & water well. The compost will keep the roots from frying in the sun, & the roots should be able to dig into the native soil when it reaches it. A fence & chicken wire will hold the compost in place. That's the best I can do with what I have to work with.
 
Angus

Angus

Well-Known Member
South Texas said:
I've had to dig with the claw on a claw hammer, just to dig several inches. Either a back hoe or a gas operated, portable post hole digger would probably work. Took me a damn year, but here's my wierd plan. I found a decent, level spot with little top soil. I've been dumping cow manure, mollasses, green sand & epsom salt on the bare ground. When I get ready to plant, I will cut the bottoms out of the 3 & 5 gal. sorry-looking black Nursery Pots. I will set the containers about 6 inches apart directly on the soil, then, with a truck load of compost, pack compost between all the pots, one foot deep, to completely cover the pots, only the small plants will be seen. Then add a lot of good stuff, & water well. The compost will keep the roots from frying in the sun, & the roots should be able to dig into the native soil when it reaches it. A fence & chicken wire will hold the compost in place. That's the best I can do with what I have to work with.
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Hell yeah, if that's what your'e doing now I hope it all works out great. I've been there too, digging with a hammer. I can't even make my matic stand up in this shit.

I'm not in a position where I can drive a truck let alone a backhoe to my spot, or run anything gas powered. I've got an earthquake auger that would probably do the job if I could run it out there...

I'm trying to keep it hidden enough to where you'd smell the plant before you'd see it if you were walking around there, so I don't think I'll be doing anything raised.

I'll just try this trench shit out, maybe five foot long for shit's and giggles and at the end of the season see how far out the roots have reached. That's what it's all about, huh? Taking notes for next year :hump:
 
South Texas

South Texas

Well-Known Member
I done the "Trench" start, 4' X 12' X 5' deep. It's on a thread I started, South Texas at Play. Anyway, total of 65 babies. two days later, 9 1/2" inches of rain. Biggest rain in 3 yrs. All gone, washed away. Oh well. Got 100 Babies popped now, will try it again for Spot 2. The other spot is on high ground, that will have the buried pots. One way or another... I hope.
 
Angus

Angus

Well-Known Member
South Texas said:
I done the "Trench" start, 4' X 12' X 5' deep. It's on a thread I started, South Texas at Play. Anyway, total of 65 babies. two days later, 9 1/2" inches of rain. Biggest rain in 3 yrs. All gone, washed away. Oh well. Got 100 Babies popped now, will try it again for Spot 2. The other spot is on high ground, that will have the buried pots. One way or another... I hope.
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Yeah I saw that one. Real tough shit man. I know you said you were in a drought but I still wouldn't have trusted it not to piss on your babies all season.

Plus, I think it would have looked hella suspicious from the sky.

I was talking more about something along the lines of 3' wide 12-18" deep, 8' long. You know, stay inside the topsoil and let the roots expand horizontally.
 
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