What's good for fading green leaves mid flower

Craig1969SS · Nov 14, 2015

Both strains were grown in 5 gal fabric pots with fox farms ocean forest, extra perlite and moss. I amended the soil with fish bone meal, myco, azomite, seabird guano, alfalfa and kelp. After 6 weeks of vegetating I start 12/12 and started feeding with liquid budswel (seabird & bat guano with ewc) from the guano company. I add 2 tablespoons of molasses to this and areated for a few hours. What I've noticed is around 4-5 weeks into flower I start getting pale green leaves and sometimes stems. Not all of them all the time but enough to get irritated that it's happening again. Am I lacking something in N or K? I areate the soil using a slim probe to keep it loose and the roots aren't bound.

sworth · Nov 15, 2015

Looks like she's just finishing to me...
(Bloody nice buds! :weed:

)

THCBrain · Nov 15, 2015

Yeah I agree with sworth on this one!!

green_machine_two9er · Nov 15, 2015

Looks like your need some cal and or mg sources in your soil. Azomite takes years to become fully avail. So your missing some key minerals is mu guess. If your in a pinch cal mg by GO is "ok" for organix soil. Or epsom salts.

Craig1969SS · Nov 15, 2015

So the molasses with 8% cal-mag isn't enough to supplement then? I assumed it was a lack of overall nitrogen available in the soil and it was pulling N from the stem and leaves. Yes they do finish nice and the bud smokes like top shelf. I have GenHydro cal mag I can use. I'm organic but not that hard core. I forgot about the Epsom to. Thanks for the reply

green_machine_two9er · Nov 15, 2015

Or your first course of action should be a 1-2 inch dress of ewc. And a acct

green_machine_two9er · Nov 15, 2015

Craig1969SS said:
So the molasses with 8% cal-mag isn't enough to supplement then? I assumed it was a lack of overall nitrogen available in the soil and it was pulling N from the stem and leaves. Yes they do finish nice and the bud smokes like top shelf. I have GenHydro cal mag I can use. I'm organic but not that hard core. I forgot about the Epsom to. Thanks for the reply

I like to think of ca as a macro nutrient. Along the lines of npk. We need alot! Of calcium. Double what we need of mg. If thr ratio is off lockout will occur. Molasses does have a bit of mg. Not the right ratio to be good for a nutrient source. In fact if yoi have neek useing bsm for each feeding you will most def have ca lockout caused by excessive mg. Bsm is really best to fees microbial life during an aact ( air active compost tea) and should only br applied in this tea 3-4 times entire grown cycle. Nutrient teas should not have bsm. Imo of course. And if your fade was N you will see it start at bottum with single leaves going completely yellow and dieing off. Bottum up for N. Whole plant lightens is gunna be ca. Necrosis and crispy brown leaves. Is usualy mg.

Hit em with aact. 4 g water. 4 tbsp bsm. 2-4 cups ewc. Bubble for 36 hours snd strain.

Moldy · Nov 15, 2015

Craig1969SS said:
Both strains were grown in 5 gal fabric pots with fox farms ocean forest, extra perlite and moss. I amended the soil with fish bone meal, myco, azomite, seabird guano, alfalfa and kelp. After 6 weeks of vegetating I start 12/12 and started feeding with liquid budswel (seabird & bat guano with ewc) from the guano company. I add 2 tablespoons of molasses to this and areated for a few hours. What I've noticed is around 4-5 weeks into flower I start getting pale green leaves and sometimes stems. Not all of them all the time but enough to get irritated that it's happening again. Am I lacking something in N or K? I areate the soil using a slim probe to keep it loose and the roots aren't bound.

I'm far from an expert but I've heard molasses added too early in flower will lock out N. I usually use molasses only during the last 2 weeks of flower. BTW, nice plants.

green_machine_two9er · Nov 15, 2015

Moldy said:
I'm far from an expert but I've heard molasses added too early in flower will lock out N. I usually use molasses only during the last 2 weeks of flower. BTW, nice plants.

Its not about when its applied. Its hoe often and in what application. Used correctly as a sucrose source for microbes, when brewed there is little to no bsm left in a AACT. The bacteria are having a feast and should consume nearly all bsm before this microbe jam packed full tea is applied. Its a myth that it will "sweeten" buds. Or to use during last few weeks is basically not changing anything except potentially harsher smoke because the mg will burn hot and harsh if there sre high levels near the end.

ShLUbY · Nov 15, 2015

green_machine_two9er said:
Its not about when its applied. Its hoe often and in what application. Used correctly as a sucrose source for microbes, when brewed there is little to no bsm left in a AACT. The bacteria are having a feast and should consume nearly all bsm before this microbe jam packed full tea is applied. Its a myth that it will "sweeten" buds. Or to use during last few weeks is basically not changing anything except potentially harsher smoke because the mg will burn hot and harsh if there sre high levels near the end.

well said

Moldy · Nov 16, 2015

green_machine_two9er said:
Its not about when its applied. Its hoe often and in what application. Used correctly as a sucrose source for microbes, when brewed there is little to no bsm left in a AACT. The bacteria are having a feast and should consume nearly all bsm before this microbe jam packed full tea is applied. Its a myth that it will "sweeten" buds. Or to use during last few weeks is basically not changing anything except potentially harsher smoke because the mg will burn hot and harsh if there sre high levels near the end.

Thanks for your reply. Apparently I've always been told the incorrect method then when using molasses. Do you have a source for this information? It would be much appreciated. I'm not doing teas but from the looks of it I'd like to look into it. Thanks again!

ShLUbY · Nov 16, 2015

Moldy said:
Thanks for your reply. Apparently I've always been told the incorrect method then when using molasses. Do you have a source for this information? It would be much appreciated. I'm not doing teas but from the looks of it I'd like to look into it. Thanks again!

i mean really, if you think about it, how would the molasses "sweeten the buds" when you're burning the stuff? it just doesn't make any sense logically. as said above, would just make more blackened smoke from there being so much extra sugar in the system, most likely.

Another thing to note, plants use most all of the sugar they make to make the cellulose that cell walls are made of. They're using the carbon from the sugar molecule to build more plant which is why they are so good at removing Carbon from the atmosphere! the plant makes the sugar for this process much closer to the site of need, rather than uptake it through the root system.

now adding molasses to your soil will definitely feed the microbes and they will like that, but done too often they will choose the sugar every time, rather than feeding on the amendments that are in the soil.

hope this helps.

Moldy · Nov 17, 2015

ShLUbY said:
i mean really, if you think about it, how would the molasses "sweeten the buds" when you're burning the stuff? it just doesn't make any sense logically. as said above, would just make more blackened smoke from there being so much extra sugar in the system, most likely.

Another thing to note, plants use most all of the sugar they make to make the cellulose that cell walls are made of. They're using the carbon from the sugar molecule to build more plant which is why they are so good at removing Carbon from the atmosphere! the plant makes the sugar for this process much closer to the site of need, rather than uptake it through the root system.

now adding molasses to your soil will definitely feed the microbes and they will like that, but done too often they will choose the sugar every time, rather than feeding on the amendments that are in the soil.

hope this helps.

Thanks for your help. Like I said I'm not an expert by any means nor do I pretend to be. I appreciate the time you've taken to explain it to me as Green Machine did above. I wasn't trying to sweeten buds, supposedly from the poor information I've received from certain books it was supposed to make them larger or more dense. Then later on I heard that it locks out N in late flower. I guess I need to stop believing the shit I read on here and in publications. Ha! It's a good thing I'm not making a living growing, I'd starve!

greasemonkeymann · Nov 18, 2015

green_machine_two9er said:
Its not about when its applied. Its hoe often and in what application. Used correctly as a sucrose source for microbes, when brewed there is little to no bsm left in a AACT. The bacteria are having a feast and should consume nearly all bsm before this microbe jam packed full tea is applied. Its a myth that it will "sweeten" buds. Or to use during last few weeks is basically not changing anything except potentially harsher smoke because the mg will burn hot and harsh if there sre high levels near the end.

damn good advice brother, years ago I was along the same train of thought, thinking BSM was a good way to supply mag and calcium, I found out it wasn't...
Locked out my plants, too much potassium and too much magnesium.
For calcium and magnesium, I use vegetation based nutrients, mainly comfrey.
I do NOT use BSM for ANYTHING other than to supply my AACTs with a food stock.
I screwed a harvest up by using bsm every sunday throughout the first 6 weeks of flowering.
As far as the OP's plants, they look good, and I think all they would need is to bump that container up to a 7 or ten gal.
I'd be willing to bet money on that.

ShLUbY · Nov 18, 2015

Matt rize claims in a post or soil recipe, i forget which but was in the veganic section, that he used BSM every watering! crazy, no?

greasemonkeymann · Nov 18, 2015

ShLUbY said:
Matt rize claims in a post or soil recipe, i forget which but was in the veganic section, that he used BSM every watering! crazy, no?

I sure as shit wouldn't...
it's possible it was something else, but the ONLY thing I changed was the BSM weekly feeds, at one tablespoon per gallon.
It was fine before, and fine after I cut it out, so logic would lead me to conclude it was the BSM..
I'm also not really a fan of veganics.. seems like a trendy waste of time, but that being said, I haven't done a true veganic approach.
I like worm castings, fish bone meal, crab meal, shrimp meal, insect meal, etc, etc.

ShLUbY · Nov 18, 2015

greasemonkeymann said:
I sure as shit wouldn't...
it's possible it was something else, but the ONLY thing I changed was the BSM weekly feeds, at one tablespoon per gallon.
It was fine before, and fine after I cut it out, so logic would lead me to conclude it was the BSM..
I'm also not really a fan of veganics.. seems like a trendy waste of time, but that being said, I haven't done a true veganic approach.
I like worm castings, fish bone meal, crab meal, shrimp meal, insect meal, etc, etc.

totally agree, it was just the choice i made until my soils are ready to go. I agree the veganics is a fad, but it's better than 90% of the other bottled options. i wont be doing it once i have soil in house to use and recycle; my composts are working, and i'll be starting a worm farm soon. i like the rols method much better no doubt.

that being said, it's working out well with no ph'ing at all, plants are happy. it's getting me by that's for sure.

greasemonkeymann · Nov 19, 2015

ShLUbY said:
totally agree, it was just the choice i made until my soils are ready to go. I agree the veganics is a fad, but it's better than 90% of the other bottled options. i wont be doing it once i have soil in house to use and recycle; my composts are working, and i'll be starting a worm farm soon. i like the rols method much better no doubt.

that being said, it's working out well with no ph'ing at all, plants are happy. it's getting me by that's for sure.

nothing against veganics at all, in fact I don't look down on any techniques (ok, some), hydro chem, aeroponics, whatever.
It's like telling somebody what kind of car to drive, or what type of woman to date, it's your taste.
It's just not for me, because my compost pile is dialed in with a lot of creature byproducts.
Besides, if we were designed to be vegans, we wouldn't have incisors, and we'd have evolved another stomach, and wouldn't need all the amino acids/b vitamins, etc, that we need from animals...
Meh....(slowly backing away from that argument)

ShLUbY · Nov 19, 2015

greasemonkeymann said:
nothing against veganics at all, in fact I don't look down on any techniques (ok, some), hydro chem, aeroponics, whatever.
It's like telling somebody what kind of car to drive, or what type of woman to date, it's your taste.
It's just not for me, because my compost pile is dialed in with a lot of creature byproducts.
Besides, if we were designed to be vegans, we wouldn't have incisors, and we'd have evolved another stomach, and wouldn't need all the amino acids/b vitamins, etc, that we need from animals...
Meh....(slowly backing away from that argument)

for sure, i know you didn't mean anything by it. but i agree a real composted soil is going to be better. and besides, i can make any fermented extracts to feed if i feel the need to try and boost the garden. piece of cake!

greasemonkeymann · Nov 19, 2015

ShLUbY said:
for sure, i know you didn't mean anything by it. but i agree a real composted soil is going to be better. and besides, i can make any fermented extracts to feed if i feel the need to try and boost the garden. piece of cake!

just an alfalfa, comfrey, and kelp meal mix will grow some fantastic plants

What's good for fading green leaves mid flower

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