OLD MOTHER SATIVA
Well-Known Member
and of course ..you never have to change your hps bulbs..
What do you DG's chanrge?
- Thread starter torontomeds
- Start date
Fornfrussen
Well-Known Member
Personally I will stick with HID due to cost and I know it is reliable and works. Easier to switch out a light and/or ballast than it is to warranty or fix an LED panel. How many people can afford to have extra LED panels sitting around?
My electric here right now is between $0.13-0.14 per kwh. Pretty fucking cheap to run HID... You can see the HPS glow from all the greenhouses here at night kilometers away from the city.
My electric here right now is between $0.13-0.14 per kwh. Pretty fucking cheap to run HID... You can see the HPS glow from all the greenhouses here at night kilometers away from the city.
doingdishes
Well-Known Member
but knowing everything that went into your plants/medicine-priceless
itsmehigh
Well-Known Member
The double ended bulbs are optimal for a year, $50 a pop to replace them. Personally I prefer to use MH the entire cycle, can't beat the quality.
Itsme.
CalyxCrusher
Well-Known Member
LEDs are reliable and work just fine when you purchase a quality product and dont cheap out. A majority are rated at 24/7 operation for 50,000 hours before a minimal loss in light. I get that initial cost of a decent LED fixture is higher. But long term they have their advantages
GroErr
Well-Known Member
If you can run 6k for $180/month in hydro I'd like to know where that is, certainly not in Ontario by the time they throw all the bull-shit charges in I'm paying $150-200/month for my little setup running a total of 1500w including veg/clones/flowering/fans and I'm all LED's.
You're also assuming costs for the buy-in of the LED's at 6000w and assuming they output the same amount of yield. You wouldn't need more than 3600w to match the output of 6k. But let's say you went ahead and setup 6k in COBs. Now you would be producing 40% more than 6k of HID/hps at say 1.5 gpw (generously, in hydro 2) instead of .75.
6k @ .75 gpw = 4500g = 10 lbs.
6k @ 1.5 gpw = 9000g = 20 lbs.
10 lbs. difference at say $1,500/lb.= $15,000 or payback in the first run
OLD MOTHER SATIVA
Well-Known Member
1kw for a month
ontario 240$
bc 106$
a bc led seller said some larger growers are buying his units to get more per sq ft with same wattage
they must have nice Space Shuttles somewhere over there
QUOTE="itsmehigh, post: 13397876, member: 473957"]The double ended bulbs are optimal for a year, $50 a pop to replace them. Personally I prefer to use MH the entire cycle, can't beat the quality.Itsme.[/QUOTE]
>157 months even at the [very low balled]50$ DE replacement = aprox 700$
leds produce top quality..MH prob can "be beat"
ontario 240$
bc 106$
a bc led seller said some larger growers are buying his units to get more per sq ft with same wattage
they must have nice Space Shuttles somewhere over there
QUOTE="itsmehigh, post: 13397876, member: 473957"]The double ended bulbs are optimal for a year, $50 a pop to replace them. Personally I prefer to use MH the entire cycle, can't beat the quality.Itsme.[/QUOTE]
>157 months even at the [very low balled]50$ DE replacement = aprox 700$
leds produce top quality..MH prob can "be beat"
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CalyxCrusher
Well-Known Member
Lets not forget the increased terpene and resin production from LEDs. So we pay about 2.5 times more for hydro in Ontario. FUUUUUUUUCK
Pulpit_
Well-Known Member
Exactly, I have seen two different lab results and THC was approx 10% using COB's both times. COB's Should last 20 years running a 12 hour cycle at 5 cycles a year
OLD MOTHER SATIVA
Well-Known Member
as well..when chips get better you just change chips
and keep the long lasting high efficiency driver..
or
just add way more chips and
run them each softer and get undreamed of Lm/w<----this will be where things really start to ramp up for leds
if i was not going broke from hydro one i may not have as much interest
at 106 $ per 1kw/month..Gavita's are still affordable very productive..awesome heat machines..
...also look forward to being able to eventually grow "trees" with them
it will take some planning but it is totally doable
and keep the long lasting high efficiency driver..
or
just add way more chips and
run them each softer and get undreamed of Lm/w<----this will be where things really start to ramp up for leds
if i was not going broke from hydro one i may not have as much interest
at 106 $ per 1kw/month..Gavita's are still affordable very productive..awesome heat machines..
...also look forward to being able to eventually grow "trees" with them
it will take some planning but it is totally doable
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GroErr
Well-Known Member
^^^^^ This is an overriding factor for me. I'm all about quality and haven't grown under anything including the sun that produces the kind of quality I'm getting from COBs.
Ontario (Wynne) sucks the big one for hydro, my costs have doubled over the last couple of years. Now she's throwing us a bone with some discounts that our kids and grandkids will pay for $#%!
itsmehigh
Well-Known Member
Your numbers are very conservative on HID yield. It's not unheard of to get 2+lbs from a double ended 600w and 3lbs off a 1000w. I get 1.5gpw off HID on a regular basis. I find it hard to believe that LED fixtures produce double what a HID fixture is producing, as not all LED's are created equal, can it happen? Sure, but is that the norm? Not from my experience.
Itsme
GroErr
Well-Known Member
What I'm seeing is that 1-1.5 gpw is common with COBs, even for newbs (of course genetics plays a big role), whereas there's the odd skilled/experienced grower that can do 1 - 1.5 gpw with hid/hps but it's the exception vs. the rule. I wouldn't do hydro but I'd guess 2 gpw would not be difficult to do with some skills, 2.5?
The output difference comes mainly from what you throw at them, 30w/sq./ft. can produce 1.5 gpw+ whereas to get that from hid/hps people are throwing ridiculous w/sq./ft. When you take all those factors into account imo the numbers support double the output per watt.
I had great quality from my CMH (Philips 315's), also swapped out my son's hps setup with it and he experienced a good bump in production and quality. But compared to the COBs, it was like I was growing new strains, smell is pretty hard to contain now and when I trim I need a day or two to clear the smell from the house.
itsmehigh
Well-Known Member
My biggest beef with LEDs isn't the quality or quantity. It's the initial capital cost and the fact that EVERY LED company will promote and compare their LED's as the best on the market. No matter the company, they insist that their product is superior, and will show their tests to support their claims, only for their competitors to do the same test to prove that their product is better. Only until next year when the newest tech comes out, and makes your fixture obsolete. With an HID I know exactally what I'm getting and what it will do. IMO that LED's are more suited for hobbiest grows. I'm glad your happy with your fixture and it's results. Keep up the good work.
Itsme.
Itsme.
GroErr
Well-Known Member
Yeah if you're into the LED game that's pretty old news, the Chinese are still at it of course, claiming this & that with their knock off's using old tech. Just ignore that shit and you're fine.
Basically if you want to go the efficiency route stick to DIY or pre-built panels incorporating Cree 3590's, Vero V7, or Citizen xx12 COBs and it doesn't matter what the claims are, they perform and have been proven in the field. There's some new Quantum boards that are looking as good, possibly a little more efficient (by the numbers) that are just hitting the market and worth investigating. Everything else is just noise and hype.
Some like me like to experiment and because it's a hobby that pays for itself, will invest anything I sell back into the garden instead of the bank. But for someone who's in it for the money who cares if a new COB model comes out, they're good for 5 years easy so if you base your numbers over 5 years and are comfortable with that why not take advantage of the benefits.
That said, I think lighting in general has to fit the specific environment. If you have a huge warehouse with 20 ft. ceilings going COBs might be detrimental in that you may spend a bunch of money on heating (reverse issue of HID's) or fighting RH. In that case I'd consider going with CMH as it can also easily produce 1.0-1.3 gpw without really trying hard (decent genetics of course). The heat isn't as bad with the 315's and based on conversions I've done, there's a similar payback in production boosts of ~20-25% watt-for-watt over traditional HID/hps which will typically pay back in the first run when swapping out watt-for-watt.
There's a thread in here with a large CMH/315w op in Colorado and they're producing closer to 2 gpw with these 315's.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/50000-square-feet-colorado-legal-rec-grow.883667/
CalyxCrusher
Well-Known Member
Any good LED company uses brand name chips and drivers, and arent affraid to mention it. Also they show what the ACTUAL wattage from the wall is too. Any company avoiding giving up this info should be avoided.
LEDs output far more PAR light then HID lights do. This is how theyre able to achieve yields on par or higher in the GPW. Also accounts for higher terpene and trichome count.
The initial cost of HID is so low in comparison because aside from going from magnetic coil to digital ballasts, and single ended to double ended bulbs, the technology is old and based on the indoor horticulture of veggies and flowers. LED keeps advancing towards cannabis specific applications.
I agree the buy in is steep, but to say that if a new fixture comes out yours would become obsolete is incorrect. It isnt like a PC where they have to keep upgrading with the incresing hardware demands from sofware. If it grew good bud yesterday and a new model comes out today what changes? A more effecient model may come out sure, but it doesnt decrease the performance of your already existing unit(hypothetically speaking IF you had an LED fixture). It would simply become a matter of wanting to keep up with the Jones' at that point.
Kinda like guys who "need" to have the latest snowmobile if a bigger better one comes out. Old one is fine, but the ego wants the newest and "best". I dunno just a weird argument aside from price. Just offering some perspective on the matter
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HerbalRelief
Well-Known Member
Next run I'm going to add some quality LED COBs to my grow and see what kind of difference I notice. After all this info about increased resin, potency and terpines I'm curious as hell. It would be a sin not to at least try one fixture.
OLD MOTHER SATIVA
Well-Known Member
i have been growing since 1979 with HID..
have done basically every method...
though not piles of tiny plants,mono crop or co2,
i have NEVER got 1 g per w....
i did get a kilo plant before
but still not 1 g per w
but good for those who have!
and no i cannot afford to buy from led light retail companies
so l make my own or get them made for me.
have done basically every method...
though not piles of tiny plants,mono crop or co2,
i have NEVER got 1 g per w....
i did get a kilo plant before
but still not 1 g per w
but good for those who have!
and no i cannot afford to buy from led light retail companies
so l make my own or get them made for me.
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Pulpit_
Well-Known Member
Do it and you will never look back.