What are the best nutrients out there?whats better advanced nutrients or hydro fuel?

This is my first indoor run! Outdoor since 1995! Botanicare inside and Fox Farm out and I will never even try anything else. I am really anxious to see the yield from this run because it looks promising! I will be buying gallons from now on though because it is fairly expensive to run 10 different nutes n supplements. The strawberry Banana is showing nice little nugs already! 14 days of flower!

purplehays1 said:

if used properly no hydroponic nutrient will leave any taste in the finished product outside of Sweet or Floranectar or other products designed for that specific purpose. GH nutrients are the highest quality, every other product relys on basically the same sources of NPKCaMgMn ect. GH is not formulated specifically for cannabis, other products are, all that must be done is a simple adjustment to the GH feeding schedule to achieve the same results you would with AN or Heavy 16.

Click to expand...

Thanks Purp. So adding that Sunshine#4 and sugar daddy is the adjustment you refer to?

I did find sort-of-a cost comparison chart, which does indicate that Botanicare is not much more expensive than GH (while everything ELSE scales up considerably. Do those specific products explain when/how much to adjust the GH schedule? Or is that just acquired via practice/experience?

The cost comparison: http://aptus-usa.com/resources/docs/AptusCostComparison.pdf

Sunshine is just a good medium, and adds the myco's (beneficial microbes) any quality soil-less medium is similar. Sugar daddy just feeds the beneficials and adds some amino acids. Neither is at all necessary as many products are cheaper and do the same, this is just what i use for convenience. If you are really on a budget a inexpensive peet based soiless medium and the GH 3 part will produce great results for the least expense.

What i was referring to is with the flora 3 part i generally start flowering with a 1-1-1 ratio of bloom-micro-gro and then go to the standard 3-2-1 until the end of flowering and then drop it down to 3-1-1 toward the end of flowering. (more PK and less N) With cannabis you want to feed plenty of N most of the life-cycle as with most plants, but lower the levels when finishing flowering. Also be careful in the later half of flowering for ca/mg deficiencies, some strains will never need a cal/mg boost (Epson Salts), others will need it desperately with the reduced micro.


Also DONT feed ANY nutrient at the recommended dosage or u are very likely to overfeed. I feed at about 30% what the GH label recommends, if u feed what they tell you to you will have very unhappy plants.

purplehays1 said:

Also DONT feed ANY nutrient at the recommended dosage or u are very likely to overfeed. I feed at about 30% what the GH label recommends, if u feed what they tell you to you will have very unhappy plants.

Click to expand...

I was guessing 50%... so 30% will do for starters? I'm planning to use coco fiber in smart pots and gro-pro pots, using GH.and vegging under T5s.

Is it trickier to feed in veg or bloom stage?

Cowboy Kahlil said:

I was guessing 50%... so 30% will do for starters? I'm planning to use coco fiber in smart pots and gro-pro pots, using GH.and vegging under T5s.

Is it trickier to feed in veg or bloom stage?

Click to expand...

cal mag !! transition from veg to bloom is trickiest! in my opinion! let the ph go from 5.6 to 6.0 during grow! throw perlite in there about 25% and u will be able to feed more. I feed 1/2 streghth 2 times a day with lots of runoff and u wont have to flush until final! I feed , feed ,feed , and feed some more! don't ever do straight water in will unbalance your medium! If u think you have over fed cut feed in 50% of what your using and run solution through it couple times. A lot of times it not overfeeding! its salt buildup. Just don't ever run straight water through coco! Start out with 6 inch pots and let roots fill that up and then to a 3-5 or 7 gallon. Once the roots get to your likin! put it to her! I hope it helps just don't wanna see someone fail. coco is tricky!

Cowboy Kahlil said:

I was guessing 50%... so 30% will do for starters? I'm planning to use coco fiber in smart pots and gro-pro pots, using GH.and vegging under T5s.

Click to expand...

When I used GH 3-part, I followed the so-called "useless" schedule. It worked very well. It's about 5/8 to 3/4 strength (compared to GH's label).

I made a spreadsheet to figure out the NPK ratio which results from GH's recommended feeding, or "useless." It's illuminating to see the details behind "1 green, 2 black, 3 red."

For example, GH's 1-2-3 comes out to an NPK ratio of 1-1.3-1.6 and 1423 PPM (which shows why the label's strength is too strong.). If you run the "useless" quantities through the spreadsheet, you'll see it's in the 800-1000 range.

BTW: I updated the spreadsheet last night to simplify it. It used to work with "parts" and told you the actual amounts used. Now it works with actual amounts. Much simpler. The README file shows explains how to use it.

JimmyIndica said:

coco is tricky!

Click to expand...

The city water here tests out pretty close to neutral PH. So you say it's better to go 75% coco, 25% perlite?

I bought 5 and 7 gal pots, to see which does better throughout.

az2000 said:

When I used GH 3-part, I followed the so-called "useless" schedule. It worked very well. It's about 5/8 to 3/4 strength (compared to GH's label).

I made a spreadsheet to figure out the NPK ratio which results from GH's recommended feeding, or "useless." It's illuminating to see the details behind "1 green, 2 black, 3 red."

For example, GH's 1-2-3 comes out to an NPK ratio of 1-1.3-1.6 and 1423 PPM (which shows why the label's strength is too strong.). If you run the "useless" quantities through the spreadsheet, you'll see it's in the 800-1000 range.

BTW: I updated the spreadsheet last night to simplify it. It used to work with "parts" and told you the actual amounts used. Now it works with actual amounts. Much simpler. The README file shows explains how to use it.

Click to expand...

The spreadsheet is updated AT GrowKind? The readme file is on the bottles? I didn't quite follow those parts. And does anything change from the useless schedule if foliar feeding is done?

(Thanks to each of you chiming in.)

Cowboy Kahlil said:

The city water here tests out pretty close to neutral PH. So you say it's better to go 75% coco, 25% perlite?

I bought 5 and 7 gal pots, to see which does better throughout.

Click to expand...

Yes use Coco/perlite mix. Make sure to rinse the coco until u cannot see anymore red in the water! put 5ml grow+ 5 ml cal mag plus per gallon water and prep mix with this before u put the seedling in it. You gotta set your cations in the coco. If u don't !u will have def early! Listen ! after the roots have formed ! U cannot overwater unless its sitting in puddles! Get yourself ph meter and mix all the nutes then phup/down! Have you bought the nutes yet ? If not I would say for you to get botanicare pure blend pro grow/ bloom/ cal mag plus and that's all I would use the first time! Just make sure to keep the seedlings in 6 inch pots for about 2 weeks! here are a couple pics of LED grow! If u have any probs or question! ask me!

5 gallon pots with coco/perlite veg for 40+ day . top at 10 days then tie her down and put it too her! oh yeah put a 1 inch of perlite or growstones in the bottom of your fabric pots. I like the botanicare pre developed recipe on there website! Never use the #s off the bottles!

Cowboy Kahlil said:

The spreadsheet is updated AT GrowKind? The readme file is on the bottles? I didn't quite follow those parts.

Click to expand...

Just follow the link and see if it makes sense.

FilthyFletch said:

Nothing to impressive there . Little less frosty then most nugs and if you used advance then it cost a lot more to get to less.

Click to expand...

You saw mine, now let me see yours. =D hahaha thanks for the advice

az2000 said:

Just follow the link and see if it makes sense.

Click to expand...

okay, found it. As I've never had to use a spreadsheet in my entire life, it is as easy for me to understand as cuneiform.

But thanks any way.

Cowboy Kahlil said:

okay, found it. As I've never had to use a spreadsheet in my entire life, it is as easy for me to understand as cuneiform.

Click to expand...

If you need help, feel free to pm me. It's pretty simple. Just enter the amounts you feed and it tells you the NPK ratio and PPMs. For example, here's what it would tell you about GH's recommended (labeled) schedule

--------------- R A T I O S
---------------- N-P-K ---------- K-Mg-Ca ------- PPM
Seedlings -- 1.21-1.00-1.82 -- 5.48-1.00-2.67 --- 164
Mild veg --- 1.21-1.00-1.82 -- 5.48-1.00-2.67 --- 656
Aggr veg --- 2.07-1.00-2.98 -- 7.98-1.00-3.57 --- 1203
Transition - 1.21-1.00-1.82 -- 5.48-1.00-2.67 --- 1313
Flower ----- 1.00-1.28-1.59 -- 4.00-1.00-2.12 --- 1423

Here's the "useless" schedule[1]:

--------------- R A T I O S
-------- N-P-K ----------- K-Mg-Ca -------- PPM
VEG
week-1 1.32-1.00-2.41 -- 6.76-1.00-2.15 --- 418
week-2 1.85-1.00-3.06 -- 8.08-1.00-2.82 --- 721
week-3 2.06-1.00-3.31 -- 8.54-1.00-3.07 --- 830 [2]
BLOOM
week-1 1.00-1.29-1.88 -- 4.54-1.00-1.77 --- 1020
week-2 1.00-1.47-1.70 -- 3.75-1.00-1.90 --- 1065
week-3 1.00-1.52-1.71 -- 3.65-1.00-1.88 --- 1218
week-4 1.00-1.72-1.87 -- 3.53-1.00-1.66 --- 1334
week-5 1.00-2.21-2.25 -- 3.33-1.00-1.31 --- 1395 [3]
week-6 1.00-2.70-2.36 -- 2.91-1.00-1.23 --- 1421
week-7 1.00-3.16-2.72 -- 2.88-1.00-1.05 --- 1384

That's the results using the unmodified schedule. However, I added GH liquid Koolbloom (LKB) during flower, and powdered Koolbloom (PKB) the final week (prior to 10 days of water only). The following is how those weeks turned out:

week-2 1.00-1.92-2.16 -- 4.75-1.00-1.90 -- 1275 [4]
week-3 1.00-2.12-2.31 -- 4.95-1.00-1.88 -- 1534 [5]
week-4 1.00-2.53-2.68 -- 5.07-1.00-1.66 -- 1755 [6]
week-5 1.00-4.09-3.34 -- 5.07-1.00-1.22 -- 1165 [7]

[1] Useless schedule: http://forum.growkind.com/showthread.php?t=35174#.UmIsPhDK7Kc
[2] Repeat until bloom.
[3] Cut dose in half if using bloom booster.
[4] 2ml/gal LKB
[5] 3ml/gal LKB
[6] 4ml/gal LKB
[7] Cut base nutes in half, as described in the Useless schedule. Use 1.25g/gal PKB.

So, that's an example of what you can do with the spreadsheet.

Cowboy Kahlil said:

I was guessing 50%... so 30% will do for starters? I'm planning to use coco fiber in smart pots and gro-pro pots, using GH.and vegging under T5s.

Is it trickier to feed in veg or bloom stage?

Click to expand...

COCO is not my favorite, but works well for many. As said by others you will need to supplement ca/mg in coco. I veg under t5's flower under HPS, works great.

Neither should be tricky. In veg (if u arent recycling the coco) i recommend u just use a all in one soil like fox farms ocean forest, it allows u to just water them with tap water and just kinda let them grow in veg, but this will dirty up your coco if u plan to recycle it. But if you want to just do coco all the way through its very easy just follow the ratios on the GH bottle just at a much lower concentration. If you dont have a PPM pen i would just go with 40% of GH recommendation and see how it works. For very small plants 25% strength. You should not have an issue in veg when you are giving them plenty of the MICRO but when you tone back the micro and turn up the BLOOM you will need to supplement with a ca/mg product. In coco i believe people recommend using Cal/Mg from weeks 1-5 of flower or more with every feeding.

purplehays1 said:

COCO is not my favorite, but works well for many. As said by others you will need to supplement ca/mg in coco. I veg under t5's flower under HPS, works great.

Neither should be tricky. In veg (if u arent recycling the coco) i recommend u just use a all in one soil like fox farms ocean forest, it allows u to just water them with tap water and just kinda let them grow in veg, but this will dirty up your coco if u plan to recycle it. But if you want to just do coco all the way through its very easy just follow the ratios on the GH bottle just at a much lower concentration. If you dont have a PPM pen i would just go with 40% of GH recommendation and see how it works. For very small plants 25% strength. You should not have an issue in veg when you are giving them plenty of the MICRO but when you tone back the micro and turn up the BLOOM you will need to supplement with a ca/mg product. In coco i believe people recommend using Cal/Mg from weeks 1-5 of flower or more with every feeding.

Click to expand...

was that Fox Farms Ocean Forest or Happy Frog?

(And thanks to everyone for all the coaching!)

az2000 said:

When I used GH 3-part, I followed the so-called "useless" schedule. It worked very well. It's about 5/8 to 3/4 strength (compared to GH's label).

I made a spreadsheet to figure out the NPK ratio which results from GH's recommended feeding, or "useless." It's illuminating to see the details behind "1 green, 2 black, 3 red."

For example, GH's 1-2-3 comes out to an NPK ratio of 1-1.3-1.6 and 1423 PPM (which shows why the label's strength is too strong.). If you run the "useless" quantities through the spreadsheet, you'll see it's in the 800-1000 range.

BTW: I updated the spreadsheet last night to simplify it. It used to work with "parts" and told you the actual amounts used. Now it works with actual amounts. Much simpler. The README file shows explains how to use it.

Click to expand...

Schedule is very similar to what i used this cycle, but at much lower PPM. I use a drain to waste soiless and dont have anywhere to drain so i basically have no waste and 1400 PPM's would be a scorcher. I feed about 500 in early flower and creep up to about 850 by the last feeding.

Using coco you would want to feed clean water between every feeding if u used the so-called "useless" formula tor you will likely burn your plants.

Cowboy Kahlil said:

was that Fox Farms Ocean Forest or Happy Frog?

(And thanks to everyone for all the coaching!)

Click to expand...

Ocean Forest is what i use. There are a ton of options and it is by no means the best, but it is a solid product. I put rooted clones or rooted seedlings directly into a 16oz cup of FFOF and they are fine for at least 6 weeks just add water when dry.

Here is a pic of my mother plant that has been in veg for like 20 weeks in .75gal of ocean forest. It is just starting to show deficiencies, and its a huge plant. I am just starting to feed her some GH maxi-gro which is a decent veg nutrient. I bought it cuz its cheap as hell, for $10 i got enough to last me forever and im too lazy to mix nutrient batches for my mother. To be perfectly honest i dont think that nutrients are that big a deal in veg, its when you are getting close to and during flower that you must feed them the right nutes and the right PH.

purplehays1 said:

I use a drain to waste soiless and dont have anywhere to drain so i basically have no waste and 1400 PPM's would be a scorcher.

Click to expand...

I was DTW when I used that schedule. I agree, it got too high using liquid 3-4ml liquid Koolbloom. I watered for a lot of runoff. Maybe that helped.