What am I doing wrong (yield issue)?

Nullis said:

Good for you, and your water. Keep practicing as you preach, though, I mean... er...

But I love it, LOVE IT, when somebody posts with attitude like they're the pinnacle of Grow, talks about others being stubborn or emotional or whatever... and then gets all offended and deems I "crossed the line" for telling them to do something like pull their head out of their ass.

"My water has what I need for both calcium and magnesium.... so fuck all you suckers who don't use my water."

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There is no point talking with you. You have gone off on a crazy tirade and don't seem to be getting what I'm actually saying. Either that or you just like being a troll and trying to spin things into an argument. From the latest post it would seem you can't keep what you read straight. Saying to pull my head out of my ass wasn't crossing the line, I quoted what was, duh. I think you need to take your own advice, pull your head out of your ass already.

Go back and quote the first guy's response to put the proper perspective in there an you see those quotes are not an attack.

nomofatum said:

Your last paragraph is extra silly. Regardless of the specific CalMag product, if you mix up an equal strength epsom/calcium sulfate DIY product you will paying well under 1/10th the cost per application.

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And you've done exactly this, right? So you'd know that calcium sulfate really isn't as water soluble as you're letting on, right?

Oh god, I said you had a pious sense of self-worth. How fucking terrible. How ever could I say such a thing. BLASPHEMY!

Calling someone a sucker and telling them they are wasting their money when you have next to nothing for a clue can easily be construed as an attack... and the way you kept repeating it. Oh well, there's just no point talking to you. Blah blah. Blah. Blah.

Nullis said:

And you've done exactly this, right? So you'd know that calcium sulfate really isn't as water soluble as you're letting on, right?

Oh god, I said you had a pious sense of self-worth. How fucking terrible.

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Are you saying that you can only know things through self experience? You are incapable of learning through observation, reading, or even using logic to connect the dots of things you have already learned?

That is what your questions are suggesting.

JustCurious79 said:

Grow room: 3*3*6 tent, and four plants total would make one plant per 2.25 square foot.
Lighting previously non-branded 400W HPS, now 600W CoolTube. I keep the light as close to the roof as I can since it's connected to the exhaust fan. Shouldn't matter too much.
Normally I veg the plants to some 2 feet in height. During flowering they easily triple their height, growing relatively close to the light.
Tapwater in town is said to have a pH of 8.0 a hardness of 9.3 dH.
I'm very sorry but I still don't want to share pictures.

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Sounds like your light is too far away and they are spending a lot of energy stretching towards it. Genetics are also a big limiting factor, some strains yield more than others.

nomofatum said:

Are you saying that you can only know things through self experience? You are incapable of learning through observation, reading, or even using logic to connect the dots of things you have already learned?

That is what your questions are suggesting.

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... So you know what happens when you mix gypsum with water via reading or connecting the dots of things you've already learned, then?

Observation is a form of self experience, by the way. Actually it really does help to learn through experience, or direct observation. You can read that gypsum is "moderately soluble" in water all you want... go do an experiment and see what that actually means. You're familiar with retrograde solubility?

Nullis said:

... So you know what happens when you mix gypsum with water via reading or connecting the dots of things you've already learned, then?

Observation is a form of self experience, by the way. Actually it really does help to learn through experience, or direct observation. You can read that gypsum is "moderately soluble" in water all you want... go do an experiment and see what that actually means. You're familiar with retrograde solubility?

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Watching a video on youtube isn't self experience, but it is observation. Watching my buddy do it to his plants is observation, not self experience. Not "gypsum", Calcium Sulfate, pure.

Why is it not self experience? Because l didn't know all the factors, didn't get to watch the plants react, ... I guess the fact that I got to smoke some make it head into self experience. My friend Jared uses RO and uses the method I am recommending.

nomofatum said:

Watching a video on youtube isn't self experience, but it is observation. Watching my buddy do it to his plants is observation, not self experience. Not "gypsum", Calcium Sulfate, pure.

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Just so you know Gypsum is Calcium Sulfate

So what do we have here? Your presumption that oh gypsum and Epsom salt is all anyone needs for CalMag. You telling folks this is what they should be doing, instead of you know "wasting their money" (which shouldn't even be your concern)... and yet, you personally don't do this because you don't have to because your water is great... but your buddy does and everyone else should too and it will work for them because you connected those dots using your all pervasive logic.

Just trying to put it in the proper perspective. But remember, I like being a troll and spinning things into an argument.

RM3 said:

Just so you know Gypsum is Calcium Sulfate

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Is it pure Calcium Sulfate though? I'm assuming, maybe wrongly that a bag of Gypsum pellets (home depot) are not 100% or 99.x% Calcium Sulfate.

Nullis said:

So what do we have here? Your presumption that oh gypsum and Epsom salt is all anyone needs for CalMag. You telling folks this is what they should be doing, instead of you know "wasting their money" (which shouldn't even be your concern)... and yet, you personally don't do this because you don't have to because your water is great... but your buddy does and everyone else should too and it will work for them because you connected those dots using your all pervasive logic.

Just trying to put it in the proper perspective. But remember, I like being a troll and spinning things into an argument.

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No what we have is the presumption that when you add CalMag you are looking to add Calcium and Magnesium. And from that presumption I offer a cheaper and equally effective option.

Ignore the logic all you want, buy the expensive version of the product, feel free to ignore my advice, but it is sound. Not that ignoring it will cost you more than a few hundred dollars over the next decade or anything though.

In the end we have two equally good options if you ignore cost. If you consider cost we have a winner.

It's really a cost/convenience personal decision in the end.

Gypsum is Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate. Yes, pure. Doesn't matter if it is 99% or 99.99%. 99% Calicium sulfate dihydrate is physically just as soluble as 85% calcium sulfate dihydrate.

It exhibits retrograde solubility, like Calcium acetate. That means it is less soluble at higher temperatures.

It is not quite as plant available as bicarbonates, or calcium nitrate, or even magnesium sulfate.

nomofatum said:

It's really a cost/convenience personal decision in the end.

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Except that anyone who makes that personal decision is a sucker and wasting their money right?

What you fail to realize, aside from the fact that it can be a bitch to mix gypsum in water (and KEEP it mixed), is that all CalMag products are DIFFERENT. Some of them offer more than Calcium and magnesium. Some of them are chelated.

At any rate, why should anyone be a "sucker" or "wasting their money" just because they want to buy a product from a company that actually does R&D on products specifically for plants? For spending $15 on a bottle of something that is going to last them months? Are you kidding me? Just because something seems a certain way to you, doesn't make it that way. For instance, I didn't "waste my money" on a CalMag product just because that is the picture you paint. I don't feel like it is a waste of money so guess what? It's not.

Now, just because you can theoretically, maybe, do something doesn't mean you always should. I can make my own orange juice, but I'd rather have someone else do it. I could, theoretically, rotate my own tires: but I'd rather have someone else do it.

I can touch my own penis but I'd rather have someone else do it.

light height is not his issue

Stretch being cause by the spectrum of hps due to the distance away is more the issue, set them into flower with an MH instead of a hps and add the hps to the mix when the flowers are set in and the plant is done stretching so 2 to 4 weeks after you flip

Plus that way you won`t use up all your nutes as fast and the plants will use less cal/mag due to the more blue balance of the light, weight is made by pounding your plants with red spectrum`s, but branches, leaves, bid sites and nodes ? you get more of these things with a more blue balance

You want shorter plants with more or bigger bud sites and enough leaf to fuel them

Veg with a hps or use too much red and you`ll end up with a tall plant with a few huge buds on it but unless you know how to get yield from that kind of plant your wasting your time

a bushy shorty with tons of tops will do you better and getting that under a hps takes way more work then using a different bulb to set them off and then along side your hps will

or just feed them a seaweed extract or tricontanyl to keep them short and bushy

Nullis said:

What you fail to realize, aside from the fact that it can be a bitch to mix gypsum in water (and KEEP it mixed), is that all CalMag products are DIFFERENT. Some of them offer more than Calcium and magnesium. Some of them are chelated.

At any rate, why should anyone be a "sucker" or "wasting their money" just because they want to buy a product from a company that actually does R&D on products specifically for plants? For spending $15 on a bottle of something that is going to last them months? Are you kidding me?

Just because you can theoretically, maybe, do something doesn't mean you always should. I can make my own orange juice, but I'd rather have someone else do it. I could, theoretically, rotate my own tires: but I'd rather have someone else do it.

I can touch my own penis but I'd rather have someone else do it.

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I didn't fail to realize that. If you are looking for Cal and Mag,you are just putting more or less of one or the other. doesn't really matter except that you want to buy in that ratio and mix in that ratio. If you change water you can actually adjust the formulation with my approach. Or you have a weird one that loves mag, adjust that way, easy.

Yes, apparently, you totally and utterly did. And continue to do so.

Nullis said:

Yes, apparently, you totally and utterly did. And continue to do so.

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You can point out a million differences that make no difference, but in the end we are feeding the plant Cal and Mag, and either option works. Admit it and shut up already. Both work, one is cheaper, one is more convenient, those are the facts.

Anyone disagree with those facts, especially anyone but Nullis?

Except that chelation does make a difference, as does the solubility of the salt, as does the ratio of sulfate to other anions.

Nullis said:

Except that chelation does make a difference, as does the solubility of the salt, as does the ratio of sulfate to other anions.

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You and RM3 should debate the more sulfur less sulfur thing, with his comment about how the extra sulfur greatly increased his trics. Again, both have been used and worked well enough to produce exceptional weed, you guys choose it's a cost convenience decision as far as I'm concerned.

I will admit I went overboard initially, I ran into CalMag in like 10 threads in a row and it made my head explode.

My point with the gypsum is that it is much less soluble at warmer temperatures. It exhibits retrograde solubility.

Say you get gypsum (calcium sulfate anhydrous or dihydrate) to dissolve in x volume of water... it has a tendency to recrystallize. That might not be an issue if you're chilling your reservoir but it could be otherwise. If it is recrystallized (precipitated) after application it is not as available as other forms of calcium.

There are other ways people can make their own CalMag, including dissolving dolomitic limestone in vinegar. But the companies that make CalMag products have these processes and their formulas down to an exact science.

Checked my nutes (MaxiGro), lol has Calcium Sulfate and Magnesium Sulfate in it.