Water: The Most Essential Compound

i have question that i know is to basic for this thread but ive been unable to find an answer so ima ask anyway
how bad (how high a pmm) can my water be before an RO system (or something comparable) is a requirement?
 

Countyboy88

Member
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not yet. But, im wondering if anyone has tried using aquarium water treatment products to treat their water and if its a good idea or not?

I just picked up some jungle brand "start right." And will report my findings in a couple weeks or so. Theres a ton of stuff at wally world in the fish section including ph regulating tablets and stuff.

Im no scientist, so i might be missing something. please let me know if there is anything potentially harmful that im missing.

I got the start right specifically for its claim of killing off chlorine and chloramine. I have city water that im sure has stuff in it. Usually i bubble my water with an airstone for about a day before using. During the bubbling, if you smell the water, you can smell that chlorine/pool type smell. Ysterday i used a lil less than the recommended dose, (15 drops for about 2.5 gallons instead of 10 drops per g.) started bubbling, checked back in a few hrs and no chlorine smell at all. So far im impressed and i used it for a watering last night.

Im asking particularly for the organic/AACT folks as well as hydro folks. Currently im an organic/soil guy but am getting ready to try a pilot run of a homemade DWC bucket so i want to make sure everything is proper for that going forward.
 

Sagethisplanet

Active Member
Brita is good R/O has naddda so cal/ mag a must. Tap thru the Brita and 24 hours to rid chlorine is really perfect. Unless water is such er hard
 

queenB14

New Member
Hello all!! I am a new member!!! Couldn't find where to introduce myself so I will do it here. I am a pretty seasoned vet. with regards to ions and properties of organic compounds. I went to school for biochemistry. So I must say that was a pretty well explained lesson about water Doc111. Good job and thank you. My question is with my Pre Evolution. I just purchased one because my hydrologic ro 1000 was not keeping up well with the heavy chlorine that the city puts in my water. The problem is that the inlet and the outlet of the pre-evolution are broken. right out of the box. I have read that this is a problem, but can be fixed easily and all will be well. Any suggestions on what kind of adapter I need to get this up and running. My back is killing me from having to run to a local spring, and my plants are suffering from the city water.
 

bellcore

Well-Known Member
Hey folks, can anyone comment on my water? I grow in Sunshine mix #4 with GH Flora three part. I do not PH:

Frostbite Falls, MN (as of 8/12/08):

pH 7.5
Sodium, Na 10
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 90
Magnesium, Mg 29
Total Hardness, CaCO3 346
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.2 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 7
Chloride, Cl 20
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 371
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 304

Thanks man!
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Hey folks, can anyone comment on my water? I grow in Sunshine mix #4 with GH Flora three part. I do not PH:

Frostbite Falls, MN (as of 8/12/08):

pH 7.5
Sodium, Na 10
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 90
Magnesium, Mg 29
Total Hardness, CaCO3 346
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.2 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 7
Chloride, Cl 20
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 371
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 304

Thanks man!
Yep.. looks like water to me.
 

bellcore

Well-Known Member
Heh. Thanks Churchy. Actually the PH meter arrived yesterday and my tap water is 8.1. Stocked up on some PH down and I should be good to go.
 

married 2 juanna

Well-Known Member
Hey doc any chance u would know the reason my ladies are not taking in water and drying out? :)


We live on a planet that is dominated by water. More than 70% of the Earth's surface is covered with this simple molecule. Scientists estimate that the hydrosphere contains about 1.36 billion cubic kilometers of this substance mostly in the form of a liquid (water) that occupies topographic depressions on the Earth. The second most common form of the water molecule on our planet is ice. If all our planet's ice melted, sea-level would rise by about 70 meters.​








Water is also essential for life. Water is the major constituent of almost all life forms. Most animals and plants contain more than 60% water by volume. Without water life would probably never have developed on our planet.​












Water has a very simple atomic structure. This structure consists of two hydrogen atoms bonded to one oxygen atom (Figure 8a-1). The nature of the atomic structure of water causes its molecules to have unique electrochemical properties. The hydrogen side of the water molecule has a slight positive charge (see Figure 8a-1). On the other side of the molecule a negative charge exists. This molecular polarity causes water to be a powerful solvent and is responsible for its strong surface tension (for more information on these two properties see the discussion below).​






















Figure 8a-1: The atomic structure of a water (or dihydrogen monoxide) molecule consists of two hydrogen (H) atoms joined to one oxygen (O) atom. The unique way in which the hydrogen atoms are attached to the oxygen atom causes one side of the molecule to have a negative charge and the area in the opposite direction to have a positive charge. The resulting polarity of charge causes molecules of water to be attracted to each other forming strong molecular bonds.​







When the water molecule makes a physical phase change its molecules arrange themselves in distinctly different patterns (Figure 8a-2). The molecular arrangement taken by ice (the solid form of the water molecule) leads to an increase in volume and a decrease in density. Expansion of the water molecule at freezing allows ice to float on top of liquid water.​









































Figure 8a-2: The three diagrams above illustrate the distinct arrangement patterns of water molecules as they change their physical state from ice to water to gas. Frozen water molecules arrange themselves in a particular highly organized rigid geometric pattern that causes the mass of water to expand and to decrease in density. The diagram above shows a slice through a mass of ice that is one molecule wide. In the liquid phase, water molecules arrange themselves into small groups of joined particles. The fact that these arrangements are small allows liquid water to move and flow. Water molecules in the form of a gas are highly charged with energy. This high energy state causes the molecules to be always moving reducing the likelihood of bonds between individual molecules from forming.​






Water has several other unique physical properties. These properties are:​





  • Water has a high specific heat. Specific heat is the amount of energy required to change the temperature of a substance. Because water has a high specific heat, it can absorb large amounts of heat energy before it begins to get hot. It also means that water releases heat energy slowly when situations cause it to cool. Water's high specific heat allows for the moderation of the Earth's climate and helps organisms regulate their body temperature more effectively.
  • Water in a pure state has a neutral pH. As a result, pure water is neither acidic nor basic. Water changes its pH when substances are dissolved in it. Rain has a naturally acidic pH of about 5.6 because it contains natural derived carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide.
  • Water conducts heat more easily than any liquid except mercury. This fact causes large bodies of liquid water like lakes and oceans to have essentially a uniform vertical temperature profile.
  • Water molecules exist in liquid form over an important range of temperature from 0 - 100° Celsius. This range allows water molecules to exist as a liquid in most places on our planet.
  • Water is a universal solvent. It is able to dissolve a large number of different chemical compounds. This feature also enables water to carry solvent nutrients in runoff, infiltration, groundwater flow, and living organisms.
  • Water has a high surface tension (Figures 8a-3 and 8a-4). In other words, water is adhesive and elastic, and tends to aggregate in drops rather than spread out over a surface as a thin film. This phenomenon also causes water to stick to the sides of vertical structures despite gravity's downward pull. Water's high surface tension allows for the formation of water droplets and waves, allows plants to move water (and dissolved nutrients) from their roots to their leaves, and the movement of blood through tiny vessels in the bodies of some animals.


















Figure 8a-3: The following illustration shows how water molecules are attracted to each other to create high surface tension. This property can cause water to exist as an extensive thin film over solid surfaces. In the example above, the film is two layers of water molecules thick.​

























Figure 8a-4: The adhesive bonding property of water molecules allows for the formation of water droplets (Photo © 2004 Edward Tsang).









  • Water molecules are the only substance on Earth that exist in all three physical states of matter: solid, liquid, and gas. Incorporated in the changes of state are massive amounts of heat exchange. This feature plays an important role in the redistribution of heat energy in the Earth's atmosphere. In terms of heat being transferred into the atmosphere, approximately 3/4's of this process is accomplished by the evaporation and condensation of water.
  • The freezing of water molecules causes their mass to occupy a larger volume. When water freezes it expands rapidly adding about 9% by volume. Fresh water has a maximum density at around 4° Celsius (see Table 8a-1). Water is the only substance on this planet where the maximum density of its mass does not occur when it becomes solidified.






Source: Physical geography.net​



[/QUOTE]

ost: 3683573, member: 143140"]Thank you. :weed:[/QUOTE]
Hey your a foctor
 

Dankfactory

Well-Known Member
Apparently some are still under the impression that this is a "write up." All of the info contained in this thread, was, verbatim, simply cut and pasted and has no relevance to cannabis cultivation requirements.

Just to reiterate before the "Hey Brah! Nice Write Up!!!!!!!!" party ensues.

My tap is loaded with Chloramines.
 

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ebcrew

Well-Known Member
Why would you want to avoid using Hard water? It's one of the best options for cannabis cultivation.
I posted that a while ago and i honestly dont remember why, it must of been something i read on here regarding hard water being bad.
 

Silky T

Well-Known Member
HELP! I think I messed up. I've been adding a pinch of vinegar to my distilled water because it comes back too red on the pH meter without it, but it makes it a light yellow, which means low pH. I've been using it anyway and doesn't seem to cause a problem. But here's the problem...

I've been concerned that it's TOO LOW because it's below the lowest number which is 6.8. Soooo, long story short, I tried the baking soda trick. I put "just a pinch" in a half gallon of water. Now it's a color I can't figure out whether it's good or bad. (photo below). Well, on second look, it actually looks dead on 6.8. Is this okay for watering 3-week old babies?

Can anyone tell me what pH number this registers? I don't know if this water is the right pH or not. I'm not too fond of vinegars and baking sodas in my water, I'm actually experimenting. But I really didn't think a pinch of baking soda could change a half gallon of water from light yellow to this! HELP! Before I burn my plants! Dang! I rotated that pH meter pic so you could read it without getting whiplash. Sorry, I don't know how it kicked back.:fire::wall:bongsmilie:sleep:

I've also sent along photos of my 3-week mark on my ladies. I've already messed one up experimenting and it's growing skinny and thin. I'm hoping she kicks back in.
 

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Silky T

Well-Known Member
Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".


What is "Hard Water"?

Perhaps you have on occassion noticed mineral deposits on your cooking dishes, or rings of insoluble soap scum in your bathtub. These are not signs of poor housekeeping, but are rather signs of hard water from the municipal water supply. Hard water is water that contains cations with a charge of +2, especially Ca2+ and Mg2+. These ions do not pose any health threat, but they can engage in reactions that leave insoluble mineral deposits. These deposits can make hard water unsuitable for many uses, and so a variety of means have been developed to "soften" hard water; i.e.,remove the calcium and magnesium ions.
Problems with Hard Water

Mineral deposits are formed by ionic reactions resulting in the formation of an insoluble precipitate. For example, when hard water is heated, Ca2+ ions react with bicarbonate (HCO3-) ions to form insoluble calcium carbonate (CaCO3), as shown in Equation 1.

(1)


This precipitate, known as scale, coats the vessels in which the water is heated, producing the mineral deposits on your cooking dishes. In small quantities, these deposits are not harmful, but they may be frustrating to try to clean. As these deposits build up, however, they reduce the efficiency of heat transfer, so food may not cook as evenly or quickly in pans with large scale deposits. More serious is the situation in which industrial-sized water boilers become coated with scale: the cost in heat-transfer efficiency can have a dramatic effect on your power bill! Furthermore, scale can accumulate on the inside of appliances, such as dishwashers, and pipes. As scale builds up, water flow is impeded, and hence appliance parts and pipes must be replaced more often than if Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions were not present in the water.
Some Strategies to "Soften" Hard Water

For large-scale municipal operations, a process known as the "lime-soda process" is used to remove Ca2+ and Mg2+ from the water supply. Ion-exchange reactions, similar to those you performed in this experiment, which result in the formation of an insoluble precipitate, are the basis of this process. The water is treated with a combination of slaked lime, Ca(OH)2, and soda ash, Na2CO3. Calcium precipitates as CaCO3, and magnesium precipitates as Mg(OH)2. These solids can be collected, thus removing the scale-forming cations from the water supply.
To see this process in more detail, let us consider the reaction for the precipitation of Mg(OH)2. Consultation of the solubility guidelines in the experiment reveals that the Ca(OH)2 of slaked lime is moderately soluble in water. Hence, it can dissociate in water to give one Ca2+ ion and two OH- ions for each unit of Ca(OH)2 that dissolves. The OH- ions react with Mg2+ ions in the water to form the insoluble precipitate. The Ca2+ ions are unaffected by this reaction, and so we do not include them in the net ionic reaction (Equation 2). They are removed by the separate reaction with CO32- ions from the soda ash.

(2)


Household water softeners typically use a different process, known as ion exchange. Ion-exchange devices consist of a bed of plastic (polymer) beads covalently bound to anion groups, such as -COO-. The negative charge of these anions is balanced by Na+ cations attached to them. When water containing Ca2+ and Mg2+ is passed through the ion exchanger, the Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions are more attracted to the anion groups than the Na+ ions. Hence, they replace the Na+ ions on the beads, and so the Na+ ions (which do not form scale) go into the water in their place.
Figure 1

When hard tapwater passes through the ion exchanger (left), the calcium ions from the tapwater replace the sodium ions in the ion exchanger. The softened water, containing sodium ions in place of calcium ions, can be collected for household use.

Unfortunately, many people with high blood pressure or other health problems must restrict their intake of sodium. Because water softened by this type of ion exchange contains many sodium ions, people with limited sodium intakes should avoid drinking water that has been softened this way. Several new techniques for softening water without introducing sodium ions are beginning to appear on the market.
Dankfactory- comments?bongsmilie
 

SSHZ

Well-Known Member
To review, hard water can interfere with plants ability to absorb certain nutes. You can still have success with hard water, but it can and will become more difficult into flowering. Most hard water has calcium carbonate and mg carbonate, which is in a form that plants can't use. This eventually leads to calcium locking out (plants can't absorb) which then affects nitrogen uptake. It spirals downward from there.
 

Silky T

Well-Known Member
To review, hard water can interfere with plants ability to absorb certain nutes. You can still have success with hard water, but it can and will become more difficult into flowering. Most hard water has calcium carbonate and mg carbonate, which is in a form that plants can't use. This eventually leads to calcium locking out (plants can't absorb) which then affects nitrogen uptake. It spirals downward from there.
How can everyone be so downright personal and confident about water? I mean, some people live strickly by the rule of tap water only and hard water is okay to the other extreme that hard water can interfere with the plants ability to absorb certain nutes? How can each end of the spectrum have the same results? It's downright confusing to us newbies. I guess on one hand you can't go too wrong with your tap water as long as you let it sit for 24-48 hours first, but it's when you start with the problem that I'm having with trying to get the pH right, that it gets a bit overwhelming.:wall:bongsmilie:peace:
 

SSHZ

Well-Known Member
Letting water sit for a period does only one thing- it lets the chlorine evaporate back into a gas. Other than that, it does nothing else to improve water's impurities.

Tap water in some parts of the country can be fine, while others can be terrible. That's why, unless you have your water tested and know what's in it- it's best NOT to use it without filtering it first.

You are the perfect example why not to use plain tap water i.e. pH swings, heavy metals, arsenic, etc. You need to do more research and read further about this subject to understand what I'm telling you is 100% correct. Here's a good start:

http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education3/3-water-plants.htm
 

Silky T

Well-Known Member
Letting water sit for a period does only one thing- it lets the chlorine evaporate back into a gas. Other than that, it does nothing else to improve water's impurities.

Tap water in some parts of the country can be fine, while others can be terrible. That's why, unless you have your water tested and know what's in it- it's best NOT to use it without filtering it first.

You are the perfect example why not to use plain tap water i.e. pH swings, heavy metals, arsenic, etc. You need to do more research and read further about this subject to understand what I'm telling you is 100% correct. Here's a good start:

http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education3/3-water-plants.htm
I said exactly that in a previous post in response someone else's post about tap water. I said there's no way of knowing what your tap water has in it unless you have it tested. Water varies even from one county to the next. I felt like it was going to hurt someone's feelings when I said it so I deleted it. The person had kinda been helping me with my grow so I didn't want to rock the boat. If you know what I mean. I'll check out that website now, thanks.
 
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