water only

dluck

Well-Known Member
I start in 4" squares and finish in 12" squares with 3 to 4 transplants in between. I only use square pots and my roots are usually from top to bottom. I shouldn't be crying though because my SB looks great...I'm having trouble with one strain that I've never run before but the rest are groovy.

I'm going to try water only on my next run as I mixed my soil a bit richer...this time I only made tea once and topdressed once so I think I'm getting closer :bigjoint:
I bet it's the TW !?
 

MD914

Well-Known Member
I bet it's the TW !?
No I haven't flowered the Trainwreck yet but I already know she's sensitive. It's the Kalashnikova that I have on my screen now....
In that pic I have 3 rows of plants. Middle row 1st and 2nd plants are Trainwreck :mrgreen:
 

ButchyBoy

Well-Known Member
Are you guys potting up before you flower? I grow clones in a 4"x4" transplant to a 1 or 2 gallon then to a five or bigger two weeks before flowering. Try over sized pots.
I go from the aero cloner to solo cups then into 1/2 gallon pots then 1.5 gallon then the final 5-7 gallon bag. I try to up pot before there is spin out.

I might be vegging in the final bag too long ( 70 days on average. I currently have one at day 127 ). I like a plant that is done around 50-55 inches tall. I might try out one of my 18 gallon buckets if I can find a large enough drip tray for it. Hmmmm... water heater tray comes to mind!
I picked up a couple of books yesterday and am almost done with the first one (Teaming...) What a wealth of information!!! I really had no idea what is in great soil!!! I would love to have a microscope that is powerful enough to see the creatures that are in live soil!!!
Teaming with Microbes has me looking at trying a no till grow ( I will never till my out door garden again!!). One of those 18 gallon buckets might do the trick! It would save me the time it takes to mix up the soil after use and reduce what I purchase for amendments.

20150222_123319.jpg
 

dluck

Well-Known Member
No I haven't flowered the Trainwreck yet but I already know she's sensitive. It's the Kalashnikova that I have on my screen now....
In that pic I have 3 rows of plants. Middle row 1st and 2nd plants are Trainwreck :mrgreen:
Oh no :-( they were looking beautiful the other day but I know you got this...no worries .
 

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
I go from the aero cloner to solo cups then into 1/2 gallon pots then 1.5 gallon then the final 5-7 gallon bag. I try to up pot before there is spin out.

I might be vegging in the final bag too long ( 70 days on average. I currently have one at day 127 ). I like a plant that is done around 50-55 inches tall. I might try out one of my 18 gallon buckets if I can find a large enough drip tray for it. Hmmmm... water heater tray comes to mind!
I picked up a couple of books yesterday and am almost done with the first one (Teaming...) What a wealth of information!!! I really had no idea what is in great soil!!! I would love to have a microscope that is powerful enough to see the creatures that are in live soil!!!
Teaming with Microbes has me looking at trying a no till grow ( I will never till my out door garden again!!). One of those 18 gallon buckets might do the trick! It would save me the time it takes to mix up the soil after use and reduce what I purchase for amendments.

View attachment 3357560
Yup I think your vegging too long in your final pot. Transplant wait until the leaves start to stand up and pray. when you start seeing new growth flower it. Rough guess two weeks. 7 gal is perfect. If your growing a sativa try less than 12 hours of light. I run mine at 11 on 13 off that seems to speed things up.
 

ButchyBoy

Well-Known Member
Yup I think your vegging too long in your final pot. Transplant wait until the leaves start to stand up and pray. when you start seeing new growth flower it. Rough guess two weeks. 7 gal is perfect. If your growing a sativa try less than 12 hours of light. I run mine at 11 on 13 off that seems to speed things up.
You know what! I phuqued up.... Total veg time from the time they go into the solo cup till they go into the flower room is 70+ days.
It is actually around 44 days that they are in the final bag prior to going into the flower room. Still probably to long.....

Do you allow yours to spin out prior to up potting?? The ones that I have let spin out seemed to not have much root mass beyond the original 1.5 gallon pot size. What I mean is after harvest, I dissect the soil to see what the root ball has done. At best, there are fine root hairs every where but no large roots traveling through the soil. The soil can simply fall apart for lack of roots exposing the original 1.5 gallon pot location.

Will running 11 on and 13 off influence indica/sativa mixes?? I am all for 1 less hour of 1200+ watts.... :mrgreen:
 

MD914

Well-Known Member
You know what! I phuqued up.... Total veg time from the time they go into the solo cup till they go into the flower room is 70+ days.
It is actually around 44 days that they are in the final bag prior to going into the flower room. Still probably to long.....

Do you allow yours to spin out prior to up potting?? The ones that I have let spin out seemed to not have much root mass beyond the original 1.5 gallon pot size. What I mean is after harvest, I dissect the soil to see what the root ball has done. At best, there are fine root hairs every where but no large roots traveling through the soil. The soil can simply fall apart for lack of roots exposing the original 1.5 gallon pot location.

Will running 11 on and 13 off influence indica/sativa mixes?? I am all for 1 less hour of 1200+ watts.... :mrgreen:
I personally think that's too long to veg in your final pot...ever since I switched to square pots I have amazing roots!! They don't just go to the bottom and spin but the fill the container top to bottom. When I harvest I can grab the stump and pull them out perfectly clean!! Same when I flower in the 18 gallon totes...HUGE difference
 

ButchyBoy

Well-Known Member
I am done reading Teaming with Microbes and my brain has exploded :razz:... I have a new outlook on soil and will be making some changes in the near future.

I think both of you are spot on!! Some strains don't like it and appear to have root issues (Drooping leafs). I went back through my notes and the ones vegged the longest had the most issues. The Blue Magoo and XJ13 are troopers and do not care as they just want to stretch as much as possible (Over feeding is a different subject). The Holy Grail, Platinum Bubba,and the two unknown strains do not like it at all. They show a ton of stress.


I personally think that's too long to veg in your final pot...ever since I switched to square pots I have amazing roots!! They don't just go to the bottom and spin but the fill the container top to bottom. When I harvest I can grab the stump and pull them out perfectly clean!! Same when I flower in the 18 gallon totes...HUGE difference
I am sorry if I missed it in your thread. What is your method? As in from clone to final pot/tub. How many up pot's and into what sizes?
 

MD914

Well-Known Member
I am done reading Teaming with Microbes and my brain has exploded :razz:... I have a new outlook on soil and will be making some changes in the near future.

I think both of you are spot on!! Some strains don't like it and appear to have root issues (Drooping leafs). I went back through my notes and the ones vegged the longest had the most issues. The Blue Magoo and XJ13 are troopers and do not care as they just want to stretch as much as possible (Over feeding is a different subject). The Holy Grail, Platinum Bubba,and the two unknown strains do not like it at all. They show a ton of stress.




I am sorry if I missed it in your thread. What is your method? As in from clone to final pot/tub. How many up pot's and into what sizes?
As soon as My clones have decent roots they go into 3.5" squares I up pot to 5" squares when they tell me they're ready, then to 7" and sometimes I squeeze a 9" in before final transplant to my soil mix in 12" squares. I veg in FFOF right out of the bag. I had been supplementing with teas and Topdressings pretty regularly in flower but have started making my flowering mix richer and have found I don't need to. The problem Im having Is with the Kalashnikova and seems to have started after I gave the one tea I brewed this grow the others are still green and I'm harvesting next weekend
 

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
You know what! I phuqued up.... Total veg time from the time they go into the solo cup till they go into the flower room is 70+ days.
It is actually around 44 days that they are in the final bag prior to going into the flower room. Still probably to long.....

Do you allow yours to spin out prior to up potting?? The ones that I have let spin out seemed to not have much root mass beyond the original 1.5 gallon pot size. What I mean is after harvest, I dissect the soil to see what the root ball has done. At best, there are fine root hairs every where but no large roots traveling through the soil. The soil can simply fall apart for lack of roots exposing the original 1.5 gallon pot location.

Will running 11 on and 13 off influence indica/sativa mixes?? I am all for 1 less hour of 1200+ watts.... :mrgreen:
Smart pots are cool man they automatically airprune your roots. I usually have root spin with plastic pots by the time I transplant I get lazy sometimes. On the other hand you don't want all your soil falling away when you transplant either. A little bit of root spin isn't that bad because you should bust your roots up before you transplant anyway I call it waking up the roots. I pull them out the soil and all comes out like a cork Then I sink my fingers in the bottom and rip the bottom outward. next I cut the sides with a knife and bust them up. I'm really rough on them. If your plant is yellowing at 30 days and you vegged in that same pot for 40 days before flowering. Then thats your problem rite there. So thats 70 days in a five gallon pot. You dont have any food left and your rootbound. Its a real trick to pull off you don't really want your plants growing a bunch of roots and trying to recover from a transplant during flower but you dont want the roots to choke the plant out before it's done either. I've been really burned out lately and neglecting my shit I can show you some root spin. I'll post some pics soon my mother is sick and at the hospital so maybe the day after tomorrow.
 
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Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
I go from the aero cloner to solo cups then into 1/2 gallon pots then 1.5 gallon then the final 5-7 gallon bag. I try to up pot before there is spin out.

I might be vegging in the final bag too long ( 70 days on average. I currently have one at day 127 ). I like a plant that is done around 50-55 inches tall. I might try out one of my 18 gallon buckets if I can find a large enough drip tray for it. Hmmmm... water heater tray comes to mind!
I picked up a couple of books yesterday and am almost done with the first one (Teaming...) What a wealth of information!!! I really had no idea what is in great soil!!! I would love to have a microscope that is powerful enough to see the creatures that are in live soil!!!
Teaming with Microbes has me looking at trying a no till grow ( I will never till my out door garden again!!). One of those 18 gallon buckets might do the trick! It would save me the time it takes to mix up the soil after use and reduce what I purchase for amendments.

View attachment 3357560
I'm buying that book thanks. What kind of soil are you using? I don't think I asked.
 

ButchyBoy

Well-Known Member
As soon as My clones have decent roots they go into 3.5" squares I up pot to 5" squares when they tell me they're ready, then to 7" and sometimes I squeeze a 9" in before final transplant to my soil mix in 12" squares. I veg in FFOF right out of the bag. I had been supplementing with teas and Topdressings pretty regularly in flower but have started making my flowering mix richer and have found I don't need to. The problem Im having Is with the Kalashnikova and seems to have started after I gave the one tea I brewed this grow the others are still green and I'm harvesting next weekend
Thanks for that info. I need to go see what is happening with that Kalashnikova you have. Is it fading ahead of schedule?

Smart pots are cool man they automatically airprune your roots. I usually have root spin with plastic pots by the time I transplant I get lazy sometimes. On the other hand you don't want all your soil falling away when you transplant either. A little bit of root spin isn't that bad because you should bust your roots up before you transplant anyway I call it waking up the roots. I pull them out the soil and all comes out like a cork Then I sink my fingers in the bottom and rip the bottom outward. next I cut the sides with a knife and bust them up. I'm really rough on them. If your plant is yellowing at 30 days and you vegged in that same pot for 40 days before flowering. Then thats your problem rite there. So thats 70 days in a five gallon pot. You dont have any food left and your rootbound. Its a real trick to pull off you don't really want your plants growing a bunch of roots and trying to recover from a transplant during flower but you dont want the roots to choke the plant out before it's done either. I've been really burned out lately and neglecting my shit I can show you some root spin. I'll post some pics soon my mother is sick and at the hospital so maybe the day after tomorrow.
The soil does not fall away during up pot unless I drop one Lol!! There are always roots showing but I try to not let it spin a lot. I also loosen the soil when up potting.... I agree my bags are running out of food but not so much root bound as I check after harvest every time. At least I do not believe they are root bound.

Hope your mom is doing good!!!

I'm buying that book thanks. What kind of soil are you using? I don't think I asked.
My soil is some Super Soil I made near the beginning of last year. I have used it through many grows without re-amending it due to the high Nitrogen content and burnt tips along with very dark green growth. Last year, prior to purchasing this house, I did not have near the issues I do now. I also had a ceiling height of 55 inches so vegging was not nearly as long as now with the 8 foot ceiling.
I am going to cut back on veg time and see how things go. I am also going to make a Berlese funnel and see if I have any life in the soil. I am tempted to add some garden soil to some of my super soil for one plant and see how things progress ( it should inoculate the super soil with Microbes, Fungi, Bacteria, Protozoa, Nematodes etc including weeds unfortunately). I should also use the Berlese funnel with some of that to see what is there.
 

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
You have to share info on the berlese funnel.
Thanks for that info. I need to go see what is happening with that Kalashnikova you have. Is it fading ahead of schedule?



The soil does not fall away during up pot unless I drop one Lol!! There are always roots showing but I try to not let it spin a lot. I also loosen the soil when up potting.... I agree my bags are running out of food but not so much root bound as I check after harvest every time. At least I do not believe they are root bound.

Hope your mom is doing good!!!



My soil is some Super Soil I made near the beginning of last year. I have used it through many grows without re-amending it due to the high Nitrogen content and burnt tips along with very dark green growth. Last year, prior to purchasing this house, I did not have near the issues I do now. I also had a ceiling height of 55 inches so vegging was not nearly as long as now with the 8 foot ceiling.
I am going to cut back on veg time and see how things go. I am also going to make a Berlese funnel and see if I have any life in the soil. I am tempted to add some garden soil to some of my super soil for one plant and see how things progress ( it should inoculate the super soil with Microbes, Fungi, Bacteria, Protozoa, Nematodes etc including weeds unfortunately). I should also use the Berlese funnel with some of that to see what is there.
 

ButchyBoy

Well-Known Member
You have to share info on the berlese funnel.

A Berlese Funnel is used to find out what is crawling around in your soil. It is used to survey the soil for microathropods... Basically I will sample the soil today and again down the road to see if there are any changes.

http://mississippientomologicalmuseum.org.msstate.edu/collecting.preparation.methods/Berlesefunnel.htm#.VPSJrfnF-8A


Berlese Funnel.GIF Berlese.jpg

My goal is to have living soil that supports plant growth without having to ever add any chemicals that kill the microbes. The theory is that there has never been fertilizer spread in a forest yet the forest grows perfectly!

Adding mulch to the soil surface "should" be the only addition! I save the waste from my plants ( ground up fan leafs and stems) and will use them as part of my mulch. Cannabis is a bacterial dominant plant. Green plant material such as leafs and grass clippings are great for promoting bacterial soils while browns such as bark and wood chips promote fungal dominant soils ( perennials love fungal dominant soils, annuals love bacterial dominant soils)
As long as the soil is Teaming with Microbes and has the proper moisture content a plant will thrive in it!!!

I just set up a container ( roughly 10 gallons ) that will be a NO TILL grow as an experiment. If all goes well I should see an improvement in plant growth over time.
 

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
Berlese Funnels
Berlese funnels are used for extracting arthropods from soil and litter samples. They work on the principle that insects and other arthropods that normally live in soil and litter will respond negatively to light. Therefore, a light source is used to force the arthropods to move downward, where they will fall into a funnel and then into a container of ethanol.

Soil and litter samples are first collected in a natural habitat, usually in a forested area. The samples may be sifted first so as to maximize the amount collected (for more information on sifting).

There are many variations of Berlese funnels, but basically you nee a bucket of some type, a cover for the bucket, a large funnel that fits down inside, wire mesh screen, a jar or some type of container with ethanol in it, and a light source. The funnels pictured below were specially made by a local metal shop and are larger than those that can be purchased. These work well for large samples of soil/litter, especially if they is a lot of leaves or other woody material present. We use 40 watt light bulbs for these. The screen is placed at the bottom of the cylinder and just about the welded funnel below the main cylinder. The litter and soil mix is place on the screen, the jar of ethanol is screwed on at the bottom of the funnel, then the top of the cylinder is put on, and the light is turned on. It is important to have some sort of pan under the funnel before putting your sample in and before the jar of ethanol is screwed, because some soil and litter will fall through the screen. This material can usually be placed back on the screen and most of it will remain in place the second time around, at which point the jar can be placed under the funnel. We usually let these large Berlese funnels run for 5 days or so. Smaller Berlese funnels are made from 3 to 5 gallon buckets, with the funnel being placed inside of the bucket, a small screen placed down in the funnel, a jar of ethanol placed underneath the funnel, and a metal cover for the bucket with a light affixed to the inside of it. Because the light is much closer to the litter than in our larger funnels, we only use a 25 watt light bulb for these traps. However, due to the smaller size of these funnels, the soil samples dry out much faster, usually within 2 days. The smaller funnels hold much less soil/litter sample as well. There is some question about whether the smaller funnels dry the arthropods out before they can move. For samples we run for ants, we use 90 to 95% ethanol.

An alternative to the Berlese funnel is a Winkler sack. The winkler sack is usually made of fabric and can be folded to take up little space when not in use. Winkler sacks can be taken into the field and do not need a powered light source. Even without the light source, the arthropods still move downward through the sample where they eventually fall into a container (usually a whirlpack) of ethanol.
 

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
I go from the aero cloner to solo cups then into 1/2 gallon pots then 1.5 gallon then the final 5-7 gallon bag. I try to up pot before there is spin out.

I might be vegging in the final bag too long ( 70 days on average. I currently have one at day 127 ). I like a plant that is done around 50-55 inches tall. I might try out one of my 18 gallon buckets if I can find a large enough drip tray for it. Hmmmm... water heater tray comes to mind!
I picked up a couple of books yesterday and am almost done with the first one (Teaming...) What a wealth of information!!! I really had no idea what is in great soil!!! I would love to have a microscope that is powerful enough to see the creatures that are in live soil!!!
Teaming with Microbes has me looking at trying a no till grow ( I will never till my out door garden again!!). One of those 18 gallon buckets might do the trick! It would save me the time it takes to mix up the soil after use and reduce what I purchase for amendments.

View attachment 3357560
grow pics 045.jpg This is a great book!
 
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