Was Religion Invented To Segregate Us From Nature?

Biggravy22

Well-Known Member
I've been doing alot of research lately on secret societies, and conspiracy theories concerning Globalization and the conception of "One World Government". While I wont get into that a common theme in that community is that Religion was created to Separate man from nature. To give us a false sense of entitlement, and to Push us into a mindset of elitism. Now I don't know if I personally agree with this, But I do agree while man has more reasoning skills than most other organisms we are in fact no better.
We're all equals. We're all pieces in the puzzle we call earth.

Discuss.
 

ORECAL

Well-Known Member
OH BOY..... I don't see this going anywhere good..... but I'll put my 2 cents in. I think religion is bullshit, and that we all live here together. it takes each and every living organism (and non-living things) to live life the way that we do. every entity depends on all others in one way or another. I personally think that our society (as it is right now) could really benefit from living in the "old west" society. now-a-days people rely too much on others and not enough on themselves. people think things should be handed to them.
 

Biggravy22

Well-Known Member
OH BOY..... I don't see this going anywhere good..... but I'll put my 2 cents in. I think religion is bullshit, and that we all live here together. it takes each and every living organism (and non-living things) to live life the way that we do. every entity depends on all others in one way or another. I personally think that our society (as it is right now) could really benefit from living in the "old west" society. now-a-days people rely too much on others and not enough on themselves. people think things should be handed to them.

Thanks for your response. I agree. I look forward to the flaming. That's why I do this! lol
 

nickfury510

Well-Known Member
religion was created as a means of controlling the masses through fear guilt and persecution...thats my thoughts .....
 

email468

Well-Known Member
Good question. I'll start by saying I don't know.

But I'll be happy to share my thoughts :mrgreen:

I don't think religion was "invented" but it evolved from early human's attempts at explaining the natural world around us. From the "campfires" in the sky, the change of seasons, and birth and death and everything else around us would require some sort of explanation. I think it was a natural progression from praising the sun for having risen to praising "the force" that moves the sun. For some cultures "the force" remained ambiguous and other cultures truly personified "the force".

so perhaps religion is part naturally occurring and part culturally evolving. That would infer that religion could not be "invented", only possibly directed.

Anyway - that's my off the top of my head response...
 

Dfunk

Well-Known Member
I believe politics & religion are closely related in their overall goals which are not a bad thing, but they have been misguided throughtout history. Many people will tell you that politics stems from religion which does make some sense when you consider that religion was around before politics. Overall I believe you can believe whatever you want to, but the true separtion of humans & nature is more likely technolgy. Technology is great in some aspects, but have you ever heard the saying Too Much Of Anything Is a Bad Thing - Our youth today spends more time playing video games, text messging, oline chating, listening to Ipods - you get my point. They do this so much & mind you in many ways our society supports this that half of them couldn't even identify a simple plant like Dandelion. I think this is a problem because the future won't have very many farmers at this rate. Just my opinion.
 

ToastedFox

Well-Known Member
I think some of the religions are out there to make us feel specia, wanted, and explain things we couldn't.


I mean who doesn't like to feel special, wanted, and like they have the answer for everything?
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Good question. I'll start by saying I don't know.

But I'll be happy to share my thoughts :mrgreen:

I don't think religion was "invented" but it evolved from early human's attempts at explaining the natural world around us. From the "campfires" in the sky, the change of seasons, and birth and death and everything else around us would require some sort of explanation. I think it was a natural progression from praising the sun for having risen to praising "the force" that moves the sun. For some cultures "the force" remained ambiguous and other cultures truly personified "the force".

so perhaps religion is part naturally occurring and part culturally evolving. That would infer that religion could not be "invented", only possibly directed.

Anyway - that's my off the top of my head response...
Perhaps? Are you familiar with any of the work of Vilayanur Ramachandran? He has found that there is an area of the brain that is responsible for "epiphinatic" events (epiphanies). Certain types of epileptics are known for being prone to becoming uber-religious after certain types of seizures. In other words, there is an area of the brain where religion resides. This result has been repeated in the lab by others using large magnets. Imagine that, being able to INDUCE a religious experience! That tells us that religion IS a function of the human brain. The next question, of course, is why. What purpose, evolutionarily speaking, could it have served?

Have you read anything by Joseph Campbell or Carl Jung?

I think that the idea that religion exists only to control the masses is so accepted now that it's become dogmatic. What people fail to realize is the important role it played in the development not only of culture, but of city-states. It has become my own firm belief that, without religion, without behavioral guidelines and mores, we never would have evolved beyond small, slightly agrarian tribal entities.
 

40acres

New Member
I've been doing alot of research lately on secret societies, and conspiracy theories concerning Globalization and the conception of "One World Government". While I wont get into that a common theme in that community is that Religion was created to Separate man from nature. To give us a false sense of entitlement, and to Push us into a mindset of elitism. Now I don't know if I personally agree with this, But I do agree while man has more reasoning skills than most other organisms we are in fact no better.
We're all equals. We're all pieces in the puzzle we call earth.

Discuss.
What chicken raising commune did you just wake up in?
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
I think some of the religions are out there to make us feel special, wanted, and explain things we couldn't.
a primitive, ignorant people may need the absolutes of religion to explain away the mysteries of the world around them, but haven't we climbed out of the muck far enough to dispense with such fairy tales? are we so insecure that we need these illusions to give us a place in this world? sorcery and mystical realms are all fine and dandy when kept to the pages of fiction, but when they rule our everyday lives we run the risk of missing the simple truths that lay before our very eyes.
 

email468

Well-Known Member
Perhaps? Are you familiar with any of the work of Vilayanur Ramachandran? He has found that there is an area of the brain that is responsible for "epiphinatic" events (epiphanies). Certain types of epileptics are known for being prone to becoming uber-religious after certain types of seizures. In other words, there is an area of the brain where religion resides. This result has been repeated in the lab by others using large magnets. Imagine that, being able to INDUCE a religious experience! That tells us that religion IS a function of the human brain. The next question, of course, is why. What purpose, evolutionarily speaking, could it have served?

Have you read anything by Joseph Campbell or Carl Jung?

I think that the idea that religion exists only to control the masses is so accepted now that it's become dogmatic. What people fail to realize is the important role it played in the development not only of culture, but of city-states. It has become my own firm belief that, without religion, without behavioral guidelines and mores, we never would have evolved beyond small, slightly agrarian tribal entities.
I am familiar with Vilayanur Ramachandran but have not yet read any of his works. I've read a little Jung and lots of Campbell.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Ok, so what do you think of Campbell's ideas about religion and its utility (necessity?), whether we're talking about a modern society or not?
 

email468

Well-Known Member
Ok, so what do you think of Campbell's ideas about religion and its utility (necessity?), whether we're talking about a modern society or not?
I don't recall that as being one of Campbell's suppositions but I'm sure there is plenty about Campbell i don't know about.

I do recall him mentioning we need new myths for a new age and it sounded like he was inferring more philosophical style over religious. But perhaps that was my bias showing while reading.

That aside, it certainly appears that many people need and/or desire some kind of religion - though I would question its necessity.

For a time, I felt that education would be the key to eliminating reliance on higher powers but smart people that need religion are very good and justifying believing in things for not-so-smart reasons.
 

Mr.KushMan

Well-Known Member
Want my take? No? Well anyways.

I feel religion is a man created device, not to control the masses, but think of ants what makes them want to work, is it just there job, do they beleive in somekind of ant god, they need to work in order to go to ant heaven. You cant relly know. the origin or religion cant ever be known. There can be theories based on the brains primal instinct to explain. Just humor me for a second, if there was no concept of a greater power that some how controls or not nessessarily controls but creates, what would the human race have? Would the mass of us be worker ants in the scheme of life? Our job is to be, to exist. There is no way to explain what it is? The indiginous people of almost every country live with vary similar religious veiws. A ultimate creator, that watches over us and protects and after we die, we join him wherever taht may be. But if you look at different religions they are very similar or almost identical. zeitgeistmovie.com the first part. Well if every religion is almost the same then maybe with these ultimate points of commonality proves that there is a being that is "god" whoever you may call him, The Toa, Allah(?), god,ect. But if god is real than wouldn't there be some proof of him existing? Not unless religion is a test. Then who gets in the people that succome to the religious stories or the people that live in peace with nature.

Me personally, I beleive I live then die, I am not a body I am me. If you were to take all of the pieces of my body on a blanket, am i still me if i possess no shape, can i still think and speak. Or will I be a organism that was put on earth to just be. The usfullness of something is only defined by when it is unusefull. A bowl is not usefull if the void is filled, a room is not a room if it is filled with cement. So where i stand on the matter there has to be somthing to explain why we are here, not nessessarily a creator, and not nessessarily just evolved from bacteria, but maybe a process that has not been discovered yet.

I dont know if this made any sense just read it.

Pece
 

blonddie07

Well-Known Member
.


Me personally, I beleive I live then die, I am not a body I am me. If you were to take all of the pieces of my body on a blanket, am i still me if i possess no shape, can i still think and speak. Or will I be a organism that was put on earth to just be. The usfullness of something is only defined by when it is unusefull. A bowl is not usefull if the void is filled, a room is not a room if it is filled with cement. So where i stand on the matter there has to be somthing to explain why we are here, not nessessarily a creator, and not nessessarily just evolved from bacteria, but maybe a process that has not been discovered yet.

I dont know if this made any sense just read it.

Pece
:) nice. /agreed. Its hard to explain i know, but i get what ur saying, and this is how i think as well. I am me. The way i think, that inner thought inside will never fade. weather i am human form or anything else.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Mr. Kushguy, I get what you're saying. :)
I don't recall that as being one of Campbell's suppositions but I'm sure there is plenty about Campbell i don't know about.
Oh, yes, if you ever get the chance to watch his series of interviews before his death with Bill Moyers, definitely do so! You already know that he was raised, and remained a Catholic, yes?
I do recall him mentioning we need new myths for a new age and it sounded like he was inferring more philosophical style over religious. But perhaps that was my bias showing while reading.
Yes, new myths for a new age, although he spoke more to the lack of "heroes" in our current mythology, and how people such as actors and sports figures have become so prominent in our society for reasons that defy previous logic as they haven't really "done" anything of note (certain sports figures excepted, but bear with me, we're working along classical lines here). Yet, as humans, we need them because we need SOMETHING.

However, he also discussed the ills we see in our current society and what factors have gone into creating the kinds of large scale issues we see today. To that he spoke of the role of religion in our evolution, not just as humans but as social beings. And after listening and reading (I was first introduced to Campbell in a college mythology class, also Black Elk, Jung.. hell, a few others whose names escape me) I realized that he may very well have been spot on!
Religion actually serves a purpose in guiding behavior.
Why do we need behavioral guidance?
In order that we may live together, be productive, not kill each other.

It's fascinating to me that, archaeologically speaking, the advent of religion, music, and art all appear to have occurred at about the same time. What happened to the human brain back then? I'm talking pre-Homo sapiens, as in, say... Homo erectus, at LEAST, and maybe even a little further back, as the hyphoid bones in many hominid fossils suggest speech was possible, if not likely, long before H. sapiens. Our brains were already large, we were already making tools, likely already had the need for verbal communication (I believe we're going to end up pushing the dates for speech back), already lived in smaller familial groups.

That aside, it certainly appears that many people need and/or desire some kind of religion - though I would question its necessity.
Not I. It is apparent that it is needed for many people, and not just those who seek it. Remember that he used many parallels to support his ideas. He also worked things back to how we used to live, how we've actually spent more of our time, which was NOT in these incredibly huge cities, which anonymize us as individuals. What happens when a person becomes anonymous within their own community? There are no checks and balances on behavior.
For a time, I felt that education would be the key to eliminating reliance on higher powers but smart people that need religion are very good and justifying believing in things for not-so-smart reasons.
And there are those who would say that education is the new means to controlling the masses.

But, here's the thing that most folks, especially those in the "its only purpose is to control the masses" camp, don't consider -- what happens when we don't have any guidelines? We end up with people who don't understand morals, ethics, or even really CARE, because suddenly there are no consequences for their actions. They are anonymous, and act with impunity. That is not to say that the role of religion is punishment, that is the role of whatever society an individual may find themselves. The mores, standards, and guidelines, however, used to be defined via religion.

Oh Jesus, email! I almost forgot to add that Joseph Campbell, in his early years, was good friends with one J. Steinbeck and the man who was Steinbeck's "muse" of sorts, and the basis for his Doc character in Cannery Row, Ed Ricketts. What most folks don't know or appreciate is the role Ricketts played not only in marine research, but in ecology and taxonomic classification of organisms. He and Steinbeck actually spent many years exploring the coast, down as far south as the Sea of Cortez (of which Steinbeck wrote a book). and Campbell spent some time with them in the late 30s. And it was during the time he spent with them that he began to formulate some of his early ideas. :D Many marine organisms have "rickettsi" as their special (specie) name, too.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
I'd also like to note that it appears that whenever anyone mentions religion, either they are only talking about Christianity, or those who are in the discussion with them are only thinking Judeo-Christian/monotheistic religions, or only those with the most adherents such as Hindu or Buddhism or Islam. But those are not all that fall within the realm of religion, there are almost as many different religions as people, and certainly as many interpretations.
 
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