Vertical and tiers, things that can be done with LED

Some things for the interested to consider. Playing witha rough estimate I figure in a 5x5 one could create 40-45 square feet of space by using 10-12 day vegged plants in the center and 3-4 week vegged plants around the outside. Ideally the lamp would look like a large disco ball of blinding doom minus the top third. Perforated and with a central column attached to an exhaust there would be almost no waste heat emitted in the tent. Realistically a cube or vertical cuboid could be used to similar effect. This would allow increased wattage to cover the increased surface area. 1440w of 50% efficient output would provide about 850 PPFD to a 45 square foot area. 1200w of 60% efficient output would provide about 850 PPFD to a 45 square foot area. If yielding 48 g/sqft one would expect about a 4.8 lb. yield. Besides potentially saving space, efficacy of optics would be maximized. Doesn't require stacked tables but would require a custom built lamp.

A 6 foot 5x5 offers two 3 foot growing spaces for a total of 50 square feet. 6" in each space for lighting and exhaust and 6" minimum canopy clearance leaves 18" of space above a 6" flood table or 6" pots. 1600w of 50% efficient output or 1335w of 60% efficient output would provide around 850 PPFD. potential yield at 48 g/sqft is 5.35 lb. Requires SOG stacking two flood tables but can use commonly available lighting solutions.

Yield figures based on 3 grams per par watt, also 1.5 GPW for the 1440w and 1600w 50% efficiency options and 1.8 GPW for the 1200w and 1335w 60% efficiency options. 3.5 gppw and 60 g/sqft is possible bumping yield up to 6 and 6.65 lbs. respectively.

Could also be done in a 4x4. Using tiers would lend itself to other shapes such as 16 sq feet from a 2x4, 18 sq feet from a 3x3, etc.

Another vertical method in a 5x5 would be two walls lit from a center panel which could potentially provide 2 5x6' areas, or 60 sqft yielding between 7 and 8 lbs. based on 3 and 3.5 gppw / 48-60 g/sqft.

Rahz said:

Ideally the lamp would look like a large disco ball of blinding doom

Click to expand...

i wanna party with this guy

I'm thinking the practical solution with available parts would be a square tube with two sides housing extruded fin heat sinks. Could be as simple as two strips of .04 aluminum sheet for the opposing sides. Multiple bars would negate the need to have an extremely high wattage luminare in a radial style grow. 4 bars in a 5x5 using 1600 watts and 60% efficiency would require 400w per bar, 200w per sink, dissipating 80 watts of heat each sink. Very doable. Maybe 44-48" total length. Would need to get creative with the duct system but could be done with cardboard and duct tape if need be

How the resulting 60 sq/ft of coverage is utilized is a different matter. With an expected width of 4 inches and canopy distance of 12" the air space between rows would be 28" leaving 16" per side for plants. 15" benches to support a second row of plants, 16 plants total would fill the area with a 2 week veg time. Simple with potting mix but could be done with semi DWC, the details of which I will leave for another conversation.

Air exchange segregated stacked tables would be slightly more complex in the ductwork department but still feasible. Imagine setting up 2 3x6 areas and having 72ft of canopy space.

do you have drawing of this..?

No drawings. The bars would basically be 2 sinks joined with 2 strips of sheet metal forming a long box. Bottom ends are open for air intake and top end connects to a central duct attached to an exhaust fan. A second fan would be necessary to exhaust air from the top of the tent. In an open area the tops of the bars could be fitted with 120mm 75 CFM fans and free hang or be fixed to a base so no hangers were necessary.

Rahz said: ↑
Ideally the lamp would look like a large disco ball of blinding doom<--- good creative writing

thanks, the disco ball confused me,because i thought it would light more than one tier

if it's multistacked tiers with individuall light sources i understand...

but i think i still don't get it..its ok

I can visualise it perfectly. A LED coliseum grow. But having a bit of experience with HID vertical grows, I think a cylinder - possibly plumbed for water-cooling - with a floor fan pointing straight up to provide a column of cool air between the LEDs and plants, would be my preference. The air column provides insulation, allowing the plants to get very close to the lights without burning. You wouldn't miss the plants directly under the light, as in your "disco ball" arrangement, because you could use more space by growing the plants further into the light on the vertical plane.

why not just using shelfs and layer up the room?

Two vertical planes would be ideal.
It is similar set up I have at the min with another mirrored plane added. If I would have more space I would do it myself.

I see two problems:
1)It would be hard to achive 6x5 vertival space. You need some space for the pots, res, scrubber etc.
2) you need the access to the plants to manage them somehow. You would have to get a tent that can be fully oppened from the front. No 3/4 dor zipper like I have in mine :/

Water cooling the lights would be my bet. In this scenario lights can be only 30-40mm thick, so next to nothing

totally here for the disco!

Rahz said:

I'm thinking the practical solution with available parts would be a square tube with two sides housing extruded fin heat sinks

Click to expand...

what you are describing is eerily similar to the classic vertical-cylinder-around-an-axial-HID bulb

riddle me this: we have all seen the decorative led bublbs with the filament-shaped LEDs at the big box stores

is this technology able to deliver efficient axial lighting? i dont think any of those bulbs are vacuum-based like a classic filament bulb, but an axial configuration like that would sure rock a cool-tube type setup

CobKits said:

what you are describing is eerily similar to the classic vertical-cylinder-around-an-axial-HID bulb

riddle me this: we have all seen the decorative led bublbs with the filament-shaped LEDs at the big box stores

is this technology able to deliver efficient axial lighting? i dont think any of those bulbs are vacuum-based like a classic filament bulb, but an axial configuration like that would sure rock a cool-tube type setup

Click to expand...

Till dust built up all over it. I think strips attached to the out side of the tube would be better.

I don't see filament improving optics in a 360 grow as they would be good with either method but if the cost and efficiency was there it might make sense. How to pack +1000w of filament into a cool tube I'm not sure.

I like the strip idea. Unlike a cob disco ball the extrusion would be an easy design.


Something like this, around 4 feet long and 1 foot diameter would provide over 12 square feet of mounting surface for the strips. How many strips/how much wattage could one put on such a surface?

It's not just a matter of how much light you can attach to the surface, but at what point you reach vertical canopy equilibrium. With a cylindrical grow, the further the plants are from the light source, the more surface area is lit (vertical canopy as a function of pi x diametre). But the closer the plants are to the light source, the more intense the light. There is a point of equilibrium where - for any given light source - you are getting the best balance of plant surface area and light intensity for maximum yield per watt.

The light cylinder you describe above is very similar in dimensions to the 1200w bare bulb vertical grows we used to do, with two 600w HPS bulbs hanging in tandem. Those grows fit comfortably inside a 4'x4'x6' high box.

I've had this debate between flat-panel vertical and cylindrical vertical and my opinion is cylindrical vertical is the most efficient form, as no light escapes (in theory), whereas flat panel LEDs lose light either side before it hits the plants, as the plants must be placed some distance from the light source and light is emitting in all directions, even with LEDs with narrow beam angles (ambient light still escapes).