Venezuela, Socialist Beacon...on verge of collapse? No, not bacon...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/venezuelas-economy-on-the-edge-of-the-apocalypse/article16845406/
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Inflation is running at over 50 per cent, a raging black market buys dollars at more than 10 times the official rate, domestic industry has all but shut down; there are critical shortages of many consumer staples, including corn flour for arepas, the national breakfast. TV stations – now all state-controlled – are full of ads that alternately denounce capitalism or show square-shouldered actors talking about how they don’t hoard and buy only what they need. Billboards boast of how socialist Venezuela has never been stronger; yet almost no one has toilet paper in their bathrooms.


The apocalypse hasn’t come yet. “The crash never comes because Venezuela has an insurance other countries don’t have – one of the largest oil reserves in the world,” said Jorge Roig, president of the Federation of Chambers of Commerce. Venezuela’s economic indicators defy logic, he said, but the international thirst for oil has postponed the day of reckoning.


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I wonder how Kynes will take this news.

I better load the whistle up before he gets here.

heckler73 said:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/venezuelas-economy-on-the-edge-of-the-apocalypse/article16845406/
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Inflation is running at over 50 per cent, a raging black market buys dollars at more than 10 times the official rate, domestic industry has all but shut down; there are critical shortages of many consumer staples, including corn flour for arepas, the national breakfast. TV stations – now all state-controlled – are full of ads that alternately denounce capitalism or show square-shouldered actors talking about how they don’t hoard and buy only what they need. Billboards boast of how socialist Venezuela has never been stronger; yet almost no one has toilet paper in their bathrooms.


The apocalypse hasn’t come yet. “The crash never comes because Venezuela has an insurance other countries don’t have – one of the largest oil reserves in the world,” said Jorge Roig, president of the Federation of Chambers of Commerce. Venezuela’s economic indicators defy logic, he said, but the international thirst for oil has postponed the day of reckoning.


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I wonder how Kynes will take this news.

I better load the whistle up before he gets here.

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marxism has never worked.

it's failure in venezuela is no surprise.

This is the country that nationalized the oil production right?

How long before (if not already) that infrastructure is destroyed?

Who got rich?? LOL!!! Bet it was the 1%!!

NLXSK1 said:

This is the country that nationalized the oil production right?

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It's even stranger than that; the oil company also makes jam, chicken nuggets, builds house and runs medical clinics.

heckler73 said:

It's even stranger than that; the oil company also makes jam, chicken nuggets, builds house and runs medical clinics.

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not so strange, the chinese "Peoples Army" runs nearly all heavy industry and most agricultural and food processing industries.

Cosco (makers of everything from baby strollers to shipping containers) is a wholly owned subsidiary of "The People's Army"
they also run all chinese shipping, and most of the fishing fleet.

Dr Kynes said:

not so strange, the chinese "Peoples Army" runs nearly all heavy industry and most agricultural and food processing industries.

Cosco (makers of everything from baby strollers to shipping containers) is a wholly owned subsidiary of "The People's Army"
they also run all chinese shipping, and most of the fishing fleet.

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What are the organizational differences, though.
And does Cosco make those things? I see conflicting evidence from a cursory search of the net.
I've only known them as a shipping-centered company (with vertical subsidiaries, i.e. ship repair, container manufacture, etc.).

heckler73 said:

What are the organizational differences, though.
And does Cosco make those things? I see conflicting evidence from a cursory search of the net.
I've only known them as a shipping-centered company (with vertical subsidiaries, i.e. ship repair, container manufacture, etc.).

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yes, Cosco and Norinco (the second largest "Peoples Army" subsidiary) manufacture nearly everything in china. they run the whole country through a network of subsidiaries, and shell companies.

anything bought from china is actually bought from The People's Army and the chinese Politburo.

"China Ocean Shipping Company (COSCO), the PRC's state-owned shipping company, operates under the direction of the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation and answers to the PRC State Council. China Ocean Shipping Company [COSCO] owns and operates more than 100 general cargo and specialized carriers on the basis of liner and tramp services, including state-of-the-art heavylifts, semi-submersible, ro-ro, multi-purpose, car carriers with their overall capacity ranking ahead in the world. Cosco was deemed by the U.S. House of Representatives Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare to be a military-related entity. According to the Task Force report, “Although presented as a commercial entity, Cosco is actually an arm of the Chinese Military."

~http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/stuft.htm


There seems to be a great misunderstanding of the nature of Chinese capitalism; the great engine of modernisation which is hailed as leading to the restructuring of the Chinese State and towards its eventual democratisation. The misunderstanding arises because there is only a dim perception in the international community that the large bulk of these Chinese companies are owned and operated by the Chinese military. They are corporations created in a similar structure to what might be called ‘zaibatsu’ in Japan or ‘chaebol’ in Korea. These ‘zaibatsu’ were large centrally-controlled vertical monopolies consisting of a holding company on top with a wholly-owned banking subsidiary providing finance, and several industrial and trading subsidiaries dominating specific sectors of a market, either solely, or through a number of sub-subsidiary companies. These are now international in scale. The influence of the Chinese military in the economic affairs of China has been extensive for the last three thousand years. They have always dominated the agricultural sector and, after the death of Mao Tse Tung, they have been the dominant force in Chinese industry and politics.
http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Editorial_10/The_Chinese_Military-Commercial_Complex.shtml

not to disturb heckler's thread too much, but be prepared to have gary k. busch used against you in the near future, kynes.

Interesting links, but that doesn't show Cosco (shipping) and Norinco (arms) make everything.
It is not the same as an oil company producing chicken nuggets and running health clinics.

And that's what I was getting at regarding organization.

If Venezuela is run the way I'm imagining the processed chicken, it's no wonder why they are having problems. But then how does a Co-Op like Mondragon manage?
Is it different?
Probably...

UncleBuck said:

not to disturb heckler's thread too much, but be prepared to have gary k. busch used against you in the near future, kynes.

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pppffffffttttt...
This thread will be derailed or forgotten by page 3.

Dr Kynes said:

marxism has never worked.

it's failure in venezuela is no surprise.

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Indeed. Why is anybody surprised by this? Venezuelan Marxists were able to make a go-of-it for a while because they are sitting on a lot of oil. Only socialists/marxists could take an ocean of oil and turn it into poverty. The top men got rich, though, that's what really counts.

I ran across this colored pencil drawing on the web and I like it. I can't figure out how to shoe horn the image into the discussion about Venezuela, but as I said, I like it.

desert dude said:

I ran across this colored pencil drawing on the web and I like it. I can't figure out how to shoe horn the image into the discussion about Venezuela, but as I said, I like it.

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Venezuela...?

heckler73 said:

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Venezuela...?

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Pretty good metaphor for Venezuela, at least.

Doesn't Caracas also have the highest homicide rates on earth?

My wife is Ukrainian and she always brings me off my theoretical cloud by telling me stories about actual life under communism.
And it sounds so damn good on paper....

NorthofEngland said:

Doesn't Caracas also have the highest homicide rates on earth?

My wife is Ukrainian and she always brings me off my theoretical cloud by telling me stories about actual life under communism.
And it sounds so damn good on paper....

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thats how marxism fishes in the numbskulls.

communism and utopian dreams as the bait, then they set the socialist hook and youre stuck in the 1930's for 60+ years.

NorthofEngland said:

Doesn't Caracas also have the highest homicide rates on earth?

My wife is Ukrainian and she always brings me off my theoretical cloud by telling me stories about actual life under communism.
And it sounds so damn good on paper....

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Not to anybody with half a brain.

Congratulations to you are in order. You married well, otherwise you would probably have swallowed your tongue by now.

desert dude said:

Not to anybody with half a brain.

Congratulations to you are in order. You married well, otherwise you would probably have swallowed your tongue by now.

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LOL!

Communism sounds good on paper to me too, but history teaches me otherwise.

For real though, if we were 10 people stranded on a deserted island, it would take a communal effort to thrive at our maximum. IF.. we are allowed to vote people off the island for not ponying up with the rest of us.

Social scientists are pretty much in agreement that man has a limited amount of people we can be attached to, this number varies from around 20 to around 200 but bigger than that and communism falls apart. That's the real issue with communism, human nature, but then that's the issue behind most of our problems in society.

ginwilly said:

Social scientists are pretty much in agreement that man has a limited amount of people we can be attached to, this number varies from around 20 to around 200 but bigger than that and communism falls apart. That's the real issue with communism, human nature, but then that's the issue behind most of our problems in society.

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Someone once said that “the best way to attract a friend is to be a friend oneself”. Note I use “friend” singularly because let me tell you, dear reader, that a “friend” is very much a singular thing. If you can go through life and say that you have one good, or possibly even two or three friend(s) during your lifetime then you certainly can count yourself a most fortunate person indeed.

“Friends” are about rare as cool water in a hot desert. Anybody who tells you that they have “lots of friends” is a fool. We have many acquaintances, “disgusied” as friends, but real friends: next to none at all. If you don’t believe me you will learn for yourself: at some point you are going to have to test your friends; you may be in real need of something which will mean them spending time, concern, money or some special kind of sacrific, on your behalf. Just watch how those “friends” will evaporate overnight! You will be stunned. You will be disillusioned, embittered. I have had this experience many times. What horrifies me is that you find your “closest buddy” disintegrate at only the barest sacrific demanded of him or her; he or she is not being asked to give you a pile of money or put his or her life at risk; often the “sacrific” involved is something, at least in my eyes, of no great monumental deprivation to the person concerned.

Before I got wise I several times did things for people that involved real danger for myself in order to help them. I no longer know these people. It became apparent to me through the passing of time that in no way would those people – great self styled “friends”- even remotely consider helping me in a situation only a fraction as dangerous or difficult as the situations in which I had helped them. By James F. Cullian.

ginwilly said:

LOL!

Communism sounds good on paper to me too, but history teaches me otherwise.

For real though, if we were 10 people stranded on a deserted island, it would take a communal effort to thrive at our maximum. IF.. we are allowed to vote people off the island for not ponying up with the rest of us.

Social scientists are pretty much in agreement that man has a limited amount of people we can be attached to, this number varies from around 20 to around 200 but bigger than that and communism falls apart. That's the real issue with communism, human nature, but then that's the issue behind most of our problems in society.

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but venezuela wasnt a communist society, they are a SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIP, which can last a really long time provided theres enough wealth to squeeze out of a country before the apparatchiks flee to Paris or Geneva with the country's loot.