Using Lake Water in Ebb and Flow Hydro system

HotKarl2

HotKarl2

Well-Known Member
I currently run an 8x4 with an 80 gallon res. I currently make about 80 gallons of RO+ DI water a week from my well, which is pretty expensive in filters. I live close to a lake and could use the lake water in the summer as my base water, currently with my RO+ DI water I use CalMag and A&B and Hydroguard.

The lake water has a EC of 0.2-0.4 typical, so I probably wouldn't need to add anything other than my nutrients, which in this next cycle will be MegaCrop.

My question I guess is has anyone here ever used lake water in hydro like this before? I was wondering if I could get away with just adding HydroGuard and hoping the bennies would outnumber the baddies, or if I should chlorinate the water first, and then after it dissipates transfer to my res? That last part is a hassle so it would be cool if I could just pump it directly into my tank and add Hydroguard and be done with it. But I'm thinking I might need to kill any bacteria/algea first with Chlorine in a holding tank, and then after it dissipates transfer to res and add the hydroguard. Basically I am worried about creating an algea nightmare with all the stink and bugs that come along with that.

Thoughts?
 
Lordhooha

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
HotKarl2 said:
I currently run an 8x4 with an 80 gallon res. I currently make about 80 gallons of RO+ DI water a week from my well, which is pretty expensive in filters. I live close to a lake and could use the lake water in the summer as my base water, currently with my RO+ DI water I use CalMag and A&B and Hydroguard.

The lake water has a EC of 0.2-0.4 typical, so I probably wouldn't need to add anything other than my nutrients, which in this next cycle will be MegaCrop.

My question I guess is has anyone here ever used lake water in hydro like this before? I was wondering if I could get away with just adding HydroGuard and hoping the bennies would outnumber the baddies, or if I should chlorinate the water first, and then after it dissipates transfer to my res? That last part is a hassle so it would be cool if I could just pump it directly into my tank and add Hydroguard and be done with it. But I'm thinking I might need to kill any bacteria/algea first with Chlorine in a holding tank, and then after it dissipates transfer to res and add the hydroguard. Basically I am worried about creating an algea nightmare with all the stink and bugs that come along with that.

Thoughts?
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I use my well water only for all my grows soil and hydro. However lake water will present a host of issues you don’t want to introduce to your room.
 
HotKarl2

HotKarl2

Well-Known Member
Lordhooha said:
I use my well water only for all my grows soil and hydro. However lake water will present a host of issues you don’t want to introduce to your room.
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My well water passes through deep geological veins and kills my plants which is why I need RO and DI, and the filters are expensive. If I don't have to use them and can use lake water, why not? Simple and cheap, and no 75% waste water created by RO.

With chlorination, I would think lake water could be ok. In fact I did a test run of veg last summer with chlorinated lake water in ebb and flow 3x2 table, w/ rockwool and the plant grew well. I never flowered it, so I don't have complete data, hence the post, wondering if anyone has ever done this. It will be a neat experiment I will do this summer anyways, I don't think I will introduce non-chlorinated lake water into my systems though. I guess I answered my own question. Still, I know there are smart experienced people here who might have some input.
 
HotKarl2

HotKarl2

Well-Known Member
Also, perhaps instead of chlorination, I could use UV, and then reintroduce the good bacteria..

In terms of oxidation, I can use chlorination to kill all bacteria, UV or ozone I guess. Anyways not killing bacteria and adding some beneficials' is probably not going to work, I'm just going to hazard a guess...

I'll probably end up using my ozone generator and a venturi effect to kill any micro-organisms, and then just re-introduce the beneficials. That will work, I'm pretty sure.

And I won't have any waste water.
 
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Lordhooha

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
HotKarl2 said:
Also, perhaps instead of chlorination, I could use UV, and then reintroduce the good bacteria..
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Damn your well must be deeper than mine and much higher ec. My well is 221 ft. Anyways look into aquaponics they have some good stuff on recirculating pond water in and how to maintain a heathy environment for both the ecosystem in your case the lake and your plants.
 
HotKarl2

HotKarl2

Well-Known Member
Lordhooha said:
Damn your well must be deeper than mine and much higher ec. My well is 221 ft. Anyways look into aquaponics they have some good stuff on recirculating pond water in and how to maintain a heathy environment for both the ecosystem in your case the lake and your plants.
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Yeah I just want to use the water as base water and not have to get into aquaponics, I just want to use it like tap water man. So I will oxidize the shit outta it, and then it will be safe I guess. The alternative is a smelly algea bug infested crap zone indoors.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
I disagree with Hooda on the lake water!

Get it tested to see whats in it!

Algae should not be a problem....The lake types are different strains from ground surface strains. IE; See much algae growing on the dirt directly in contact with the lake?

I do organic farming. We use a commercial vortex AACT brewer and make 900 gallons of tea at a time.. Lake, river, stream, pond waters are the recommended waters to use!
In AACT brewing you get better living bio counts by using it!

We use holding pond water. These ponds have active fish populations, and all the natural outdoor visitors and their additions to the water. Some are around active farm fields...Being organic, I don't get nutrient run off to the ponds..

THAT is why I say to have the lake water tested.....You want to know the dissolved NPK values in that water... You might make some slight adjustments to your nutrient use but, from other posts I've seen of yours. You can do a run and adjust on the fly as needed!

I say whole heartedly, GO FOR IT! The plus's will outweigh the neg's... As long as the tested water is deemed safe...

You run air in the res right? You'll be fine....BTW, I used the pond water for my ebb and rockwool days.....Just put opaque plastic covers over the rockwool surface to block light, if you get any algae growth....Better yet (and I did this towards the end of my RW and ebb days) Seal the tray with black plastic and have the plants exposed, buy doing little x cuts in the plastic - when you set up the ebb table and load it...That allows for less cycles sometimes, and less evap loss!

Just watch your res ppm's ^^^
 
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TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Lake water is a bad idea. You'd be better off using unfiltered tap water from your sink.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Lake water is a bad idea. You'd be better off using unfiltered tap water from your sink.
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Oh please, enlighten us as to why?

I mean you gave opinion with no backing data....

In serious conversations with the builder/designer of the vortex's, A fellow known specifically for his AACT research. Along with plenty of personal work in this area....

I can not disagree any stronger and remain polite...
 
HotKarl2

HotKarl2

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
I disagree with Hooda on the lake water!

Get it tested to see whats in it!

Algae should not be a problem....The lake types are different strains from ground surface strains. IE; See much algae growing on the dirt directly in contact with the lake?

I do organic farming. We use a commercial vortex AACT brewer and make 900 gallons of tea at a time.. Lake, river, stream, pond waters are the recommended waters to use!
In AACT brewing you get better living bio counts by using it!

We use holding pond water. These ponds have active fish populations, and all the natural outdoor visitors and their additions to the water. Some are around active farm fields...Being organic, I don't get nutrient run off to the ponds..

THAT is why I say to have the lake water tested.....You want to know the dissolved NPK values in that water... You might make some slight adjustments to your nutrient use but, from other posts I've seen of yours. You can do a run and adjust on the fly as needed!

I say whole heartedly, GO FOR IT! The plus's will outweigh the neg's... As long as the tested water is deemed safe...

You run air in the res right? You'll be fine....BTW, I used the pond water for my ebb and rockwool days.....Just put opaque plastic covers over the rockwool surface to block light, if you get any algae growth....Better yet (and I did this towards the end of my RW and ebb days) Seal the tray with black plastic and have the plants exposed, buy doing little x cuts in the plastic - when you set up the ebb table and load it...That allows for less cycles sometimes, and less evap loss!

Just watch your res ppm's ^^^
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Fucking right bro. That's what I thought...
 
HotKarl2

HotKarl2

Well-Known Member
I will just use the water like I would tap water. I know the EC. Makes sense I just add the right amounts of nutes like I would to tap water. Makes total sense. The plants LOVE the water in the soil, it is the best water ever. But it would smell in your reservoir if you did not take measures to make it not smell. Adding bennies and hoping is not enough, IMO.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
HotKarl2 said:
You would be better off reading the post before posting perhaps?
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I did.

There are in all likelihood FAR more contaminates in the lake water than there are your tap water. Surface water is susceptible to toxic runoff from fertilizers, insecticides, sewage overruns and more. What's more, being standing water, lakes are typically chock FULL of Nitrates and Nitrites, which will turn your system into a brown slime algae factory in less than 48 hours.

Even if your tap water is quite hard, it's going to be better to use than the lake water. That's the point.

And if you're having to change RO filters that often, you need to just get a cheap three canister particulate filter to run in line before your RO unit. That way, you only replace the 8 dollar particulate filters every few months and you don't change your RO membrane for a couple of years.
 
V

vertnugs

Well-Known Member
Why not grab a sample of the lake water and have it tested?Should solve all and any ?'s.


Why no h2o2?


Are there any 3 eyed fish in your lake?
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
vertnugs said:
Why not grab a sample of the lake water and have it tested?Should solve all and any ?'s.


Why no h2o2?


Are there any 3 eyed fish in your lake?
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It's not really so much that anything in there will hurt his plants as it is the fact that it will turn his ebb and flow into a slime factory from hell. That's just how lakes work. Anybody that's ever run an aquarium will tell you the same thing: it's a constant battle against nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. (These are all waste byproducts and are natural.)

The only way to fight it is by purifying the water, which of course puts him right back to square one.

The difference though is that his well water, although a lot harder (again, not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself) will not have the insane amounts of nitrate, nitrite and ammonia in it. He'll probably wind up with more of a calcium deposit issue using his well water than anything else.

But if it's me, I'd rather clean up a bit of calcium hardness between grows than have all my shit covered in brown slime every two to three days.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
4 ppms per gallon of sodium hypochlorite aka chlorine bleach should take care of most nasties in the lake water if you're worried about it. Those hydroponically grown tomatoes in the supermarket, what do you think they use in their reservoirs? I personally would just run the lake water and see what happens before doing anything.
 
ChefKimbo

ChefKimbo

Well-Known Member
This will be my move away from soil. The plants love the lake water off my sprinkler pump. I fed slightly less too ever since i moved to lake water. Would love to know how this goes. In the meantime i think ill be planning things out.
TacoMac said:
What's more, being standing water, lakes are typically chock FULL of Nitrates and Nitrites, which will turn your system into a brown slime algae factory in less than 48 hours..
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Are you absolutely sure about this? Wouldn't those conditions cause constant clogs in residential irrigation systems? I ask because i NEVER get clogs, barely ever replace heads. What if the water source has a strong under current and never standing? How about abundant, healthy wildlife?
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
I have used my lake water many times with no ill effect but I do use H2O2 to sterilize it. In saying that the ph is low so I need to contend with that, no big deal. But when using straight lake water versus well, the outdoor girls prefer well water. Don’t know why and never cared but I do get better growth using the well that is 40’ from the lake. Most lakes around here are filled with nitrates, huge algae blooms :(.
Edit: and yup it clogs irrigation systems, not to mention zebra mussels :(.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
But when using straight lake water versus well, the outdoor girls prefer well water. Don’t know why and never cared but I do get better growth using the well that is 40’ from the lake.
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That's because the water from the well passes through multiple layers of sediment and rock which help purify it. That's why people dug wells to begin with: the water is cleaner down below than it is on the surface.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
That's because the water from the well passes through multiple layers of sediment and rock which help purify it. That's why people dug wells to begin with: the water is cleaner down below than it is on the surface.
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The lake is actually testing ok with UV for consumption, not that I would, as is the well. Not sure what your trying to say if referring to my post. Yes your right, for the most part well water is cleaner as far as pathogens go, but the well water contains more salts than the lake water here. I would certainly purify the lake water for use in flooded hydro but that’s just me :).
 
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