Unions arent bad

a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
If unions weren't around to step in. Do you think you would get the wages you earn now?
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i have no clue bro. i stay stoned pretty much all the time, I'm very uneducated, started doing 6010 roots when i was 10 years old. my take home pay would leave you shocked. I'm totally over paid for some i like to do.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Private sector unions... Yay!
Public sector unions... boo!!

Being able to help get someone elected to negotiate your next contract is just asking for corruption.

ftr, police and fire are entities that need to be treated on their own, they are not the same as street sweepers and garbage men.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
bro your a weirdo, you know nothing about my bosses or how much money i make in the trades. open your eyes to the real world. there are more skilled non union workers in this country than union. and iam one of them. you sound like your broke and non skilled. why call me out? piece of shit. trying to hurt my feelings. fucking clown...
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If your in the building trades as i proudly was for 30 plus years then you should be aware of statistical evidence before you post anti union propaganda , i dont care if a tradesman is union or not , if you swing a hammer for a living then i want you to make the highest wage possible .

I called out your comment because your comment shows ignorance about union membership as well as prevailing wage laws , you say im a clown who knows nothing about you or your non union company , i disagree , if your non union YOU actually are represented by a union of sorts , funded entirely by non union corporate money , the people who represent your non union shop represent over 90% of all non union construction companies executives & owners interests , your company funded representation is with the Associated Builders & Contractors association aka the ( ABC ) & they agressively fight any law or laws protecting workers rights , workers wages & workers rights to have a safe work place .

I know that if your non union then you have far less saftey training than your union counterpart , who on average has atleast 30 paid hours MIOSHA saftey training in job specific job saftey & general jobsite saftey .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your hourly wages are about 30% less on average than your union counterpart , that translates to a national average of $10,000 a year less than union wages for doing the same profession .

I know if your a non union tradesman you are 25% Less likely to have company sponsored health insurance vs your union counterpart .

I know if your one of the lucky non union tradesmen that has a company sponsored health insurance plan you are still 5 times LESS likely to have a comprehensive plan that covers your entire family vs your union counterpart , i also know non union tradesmen pay roughly 33% MORE for the same coverage than your union counterpart , if your one of the non union tradesmen lucky enough to have comprehensive coverage .

I Know if your a non union tradesman yo recieve 30% LESS paid vacation days vs your union counterpart .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your 25% LESS likely to recieve paid sick time vs your union counterpart .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your once again 25% LESS likely to recieve full pay for sick time , non union tradesmen generally recieve only a portion of their normal pay rate vs your union counterpart who recieves FULL pay .

I Know if your a non union tradesman you are 60% LESS likely to have a company sponsored pension plan for retirement vs your union counterpart .

You say i tried to hurt your feelings & that was not my intent , if i did infact hurt your feelings then i apologise for that but not for correcting your ignorant post & im using the word ignorant in its literal definition , not in a derragatory sense .

I may not know you or your company personally but im very informed & up to date on issues regarding union building trades as well as non union building trades , i worked non union the 1st 3 years i was a Industrial Roofer before getting fed up with low wages & joining a union , i then did 3 years of school while working to recieve my 1st Journeymans card in Roofing & below grade waterproofing, shortly after I was promoted to foreman with a hefty raise in pay , my union employer then asked if i'd be interested in doing a 4 year apprenticeship in architectural Sheet Metal so i took them up on it & did another 4 years school while working full time, i then recieved my 2nd Journeymans card as well as a bonus of a new truck that i gave to my wife , now i could perform all aspects of the job except design & heavy equipment operation , i went to night school for 9 months of paid time to learn drafting & design ,after getting my certificate of course completion i then apprenticed on the SkyTrak & truck type Cranes & after 2 years got my Certified Crane Operator ( CCO ) card , i then spent the next 15 years as a Field Superintendant .

Im far from a broke fool as you called me , if you want to debate union vs non union issues i'll gladly partake only please use facts instead of opinions .
 
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a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
If your in the building trades as i proudly was for 30 plus years then you should be aware of statistical evidence before you post anti union propaganda , i dont care if a tradesman is union or not , if you swing a hammer for a living then i want you to make the highest wage possible .

I called out your comment because your comment shows ignorance about union membership as well as prevailing wage laws , you say im a clown who knows nothing about you or your non union company , i disagree , if your non union YOU actually are represented by a union of sorts , funded entirely by non union corporate money , the people who represent your non union shop represent over 90% of all non union construction companies executives & owners interests , your company funded representation is with the Associated Builders & Contractors association aka the ( ABC ) & they agressively fight any law or laws protecting workers rights , workers wages & workers rights to have a safe work place .

I know that if your non union then you have far less saftey training than your union counterpart , who on average has atleast 30 paid hours MIOSHA saftey training in job specific job saftey & general jobsite saftey .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your hourly wages are about 30% less on average than your union counterpart , that translates to a national average of $10,000 a year less than union wages for doing the same profession .

I know if your a non union tradesman you are 25% Less likely to have company sponsored health insurance vs your union counterpart .

I know if your one of the lucky non union tradesmen that has a company sponsored health insurance plan you are still 5 times LESS likely to have a comprehensive plan that covers your entire family vs your union counterpart , i also know non union tradesmen pay roughly 33% MORE for the same coverage than your union counterpart , if your one of the non union tradesmen lucky enough to have comprehensive coverage .

I Know if your a non union tradesman yo recieve 30% LESS paid vacation days vs your union counterpart .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your 25% LESS likely to recieve paid sick time vs your union counterpart .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your once again 25% LESS likely to recieve full pay for sick time , non union tradesmen generally recieve only a portion of their normal pay rate vs your union counterpart who recieves FULL pay .

I Know if your a non union tradesman you are 60% LESS likely to have a company sponsored pension plan for retirement vs your union counterpart .

You say i tried to hurt your feelings & that was not my intent , if i did infact hurt your feelings then i apologise for that but not for correcting your ignorant post & im using the word ignorant in its literal definition , not in a derragatory sense .

I may not know you or your company personally but im very informed & up to date on issues regarding union building trades as well as non union building trades , i worked non union the 1st 3 years i was a Industrial Roofer before getting fed up with low wages & joining a union , i then did 3 years of school while working to recieve my 1st Journeymans card in Roofing & below grade waterproofing, shortly after I was promoted to foreman with a hefty raise in pay , my union employer then asked if i'd be interested in doing a 4 year apprenticeship in architectural Sheet Metal so i took them up on it & did another 4 years school while working full time, i then recieved my 2nd Journeymans card as well as a bonus of a new truck that i gave to my wife , now i could perform all aspects of the job except design & heavy equipment operation , i went to night school for 9 months of paid time to learn drafting & design ,after getting my certificate of course completion i then apprenticed on the SkyTrak & truck type Cranes & after 2 years got my Certified Crane Operator ( CCO ) card , i then spent the next 15 years as a Field Superintendant .

Im far from a broke fool as you called me , if you want to debate union vs non union issues i'll gladly partake only please use facts instead of opinions .
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your pay scale you speak of is complete bull shit. those are not facts you know of. you have no idea what wage people are getting paid. you know no other way of looking at things. the union brain washed you. you know how many iron workers are fighting to get their pension right now. your one of the lucky ones. there were a lot of lucky ones. and now people are fighting to get whats owed to them. you must know all this.
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
If your in the building trades as i proudly was for 30 plus years then you should be aware of statistical evidence before you post anti union propaganda , i dont care if a tradesman is union or not , if you swing a hammer for a living then i want you to make the highest wage possible .

I called out your comment because your comment shows ignorance about union membership as well as prevailing wage laws , you say im a clown who knows nothing about you or your non union company , i disagree , if your non union YOU actually are represented by a union of sorts , funded entirely by non union corporate money , the people who represent your non union shop represent over 90% of all non union construction companies executives & owners interests , your company funded representation is with the Associated Builders & Contractors association aka the ( ABC ) & they agressively fight any law or laws protecting workers rights , workers wages & workers rights to have a safe work place .

I know that if your non union then you have far less saftey training than your union counterpart , who on average has atleast 30 paid hours MIOSHA saftey training in job specific job saftey & general jobsite saftey .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your hourly wages are about 30% less on average than your union counterpart , that translates to a national average of $10,000 a year less than union wages for doing the same profession .

I know if your a non union tradesman you are 25% Less likely to have company sponsored health insurance vs your union counterpart .

I know if your one of the lucky non union tradesmen that has a company sponsored health insurance plan you are still 5 times LESS likely to have a comprehensive plan that covers your entire family vs your union counterpart , i also know non union tradesmen pay roughly 33% MORE for the same coverage than your union counterpart , if your one of the non union tradesmen lucky enough to have comprehensive coverage .

I Know if your a non union tradesman yo recieve 30% LESS paid vacation days vs your union counterpart .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your 25% LESS likely to recieve paid sick time vs your union counterpart .

I Know if your a non union tradesman your once again 25% LESS likely to recieve full pay for sick time , non union tradesmen generally recieve only a portion of their normal pay rate vs your union counterpart who recieves FULL pay .

I Know if your a non union tradesman you are 60% LESS likely to have a company sponsored pension plan for retirement vs your union counterpart .

You say i tried to hurt your feelings & that was not my intent , if i did infact hurt your feelings then i apologise for that but not for correcting your ignorant post & im using the word ignorant in its literal definition , not in a derragatory sense .

I may not know you or your company personally but im very informed & up to date on issues regarding union building trades as well as non union building trades , i worked non union the 1st 3 years i was a Industrial Roofer before getting fed up with low wages & joining a union , i then did 3 years of school while working to recieve my 1st Journeymans card in Roofing & below grade waterproofing, shortly after I was promoted to foreman with a hefty raise in pay , my union employer then asked if i'd be interested in doing a 4 year apprenticeship in architectural Sheet Metal so i took them up on it & did another 4 years school while working full time, i then recieved my 2nd Journeymans card as well as a bonus of a new truck that i gave to my wife , now i could perform all aspects of the job except design & heavy equipment operation , i went to night school for 9 months of paid time to learn drafting & design ,after getting my certificate of course completion i then apprenticed on the SkyTrak & truck type Cranes & after 2 years got my Certified Crane Operator ( CCO ) card , i then spent the next 15 years as a Field Superintendant .

Im far from a broke fool as you called me , if you want to debate union vs non union issues i'll gladly partake only please use facts instead of opinions .
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plus bro your 105 years old. you got in when unions were doing great things for this country.
 
sheskunk

sheskunk

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
plus bro your 105 years old. you got in when unions were doing great things for this country.
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*you're

It's "you're", as in "you are". I was going to let it slide but after you did it 5 times in a row I just can't help myself. It's really easy to learn. Simply substitute "you're" for "you are". If it works then you are spelling it properly.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Why can't I lIke this post more than once?
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Howdy brother , its cool you give me a few likes for my posts but whats awesome is seeing another forum member standing up for union membership , joining the union was one of my proudest moments & the best financial decision of my early years , i paid alot of $ into my pension for 30 yrs & so did my employer , i retired 3 yrs early in order to become a caregiver for my wife & took a $1,500 a month cut in benefits leaving me $5,200 a month pension payout , if it weren't for my union pension & retirees insurance we'd be broke , in 2013 my wifes medical bills topped $368,000 & change , i give her an injection into her spine at the brain stem once a month that costs $4,800 per injection with a $1,200 copayment , without my union benefits she'd of died allready .

The sad thing is where an entire generation of workers have been fed so much negativity from media they think unions are bad & hurt our economy , since the industrialization of henry fords assembly lines each new generation of workers could count on making a better living than their parents , sadly this isnt true anymore due to a globalized economy , corporate theft ( Think banking crisis ) & the 30 or so Bernie Madoff type multi billion $ ponzie schemes uncovered durring the bank crisis , now throw in the unlawfull over turning of Michigans Prevailing wage law & the medias demonisation of unions , leaving unions as the scapegoat for Mich's weak economy & an entire generation of workers are left to toil with both parents needing to work full time , simply to survive , child day care at its highest levels ever & workers wages at an all time low , meanwhile corporate profits are at near record highs & CEO compensation is at record busting levels , and with all this Michigans asshat governor decides its in the states best interest to illegally cast asside our prevailing wage law .

For those who aren't aware there is no statistical evidence in any right to work state showing prevailing wage laws hurt businesses stability or profitability , no evidence showing where a prevailing wage law plays any role in attracting new businesses or dissuading businesses from comming to the state at all , infact studies at Berkley show the polar oposite where prevailing wage helps the economy in many ways .

Keep that union flag flyin brother & help educate non union workers what union membership can do for them .
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Howdy brother , its cool you give me a few likes for my posts but whats awesome is seeing another forum member standing up for union membership , joining the union was one of my proudest moments & the best financial decision of my early years , i paid alot of $ into my pension for 30 yrs & so did my employer , i retired 3 yrs early in order to become a caregiver for my wife & took a $1,500 a month cut in benefits leaving me $5,200 a month pension payout , if it weren't for my union pension & retirees insurance we'd be broke , in 2013 my wifes medical bills topped $368,000 & change , i give her an injection into her spine at the brain stem once a month that costs $4,800 per injection with a $1,200 copayment , without my union benefits she'd of died allready .

The sad thing is where an entire generation of workers have been fed so much negativity from media they think unions are bad & hurt our economy , since the industrialization of henry fords assembly lines each new generation of workers could count on making a better living than their parents , sadly this isnt true anymore due to a globalized economy , corporate theft ( Think banking crisis ) & the 30 or so Bernie Madoff type multi billion $ ponzie schemes uncovered durring the bank crisis , now throw in the unlawfull over turning of Michigans Prevailing wage law & the medias demonisation of unions , leaving unions as the scapegoat for Mich's weak economy & an entire generation of workers are left to toil with both parents needing to work full time , simply to survive , child day care at its highest levels ever & workers wages at an all time low , meanwhile corporate profits are at near record highs & CEO compensation is at record busting levels , and with all this Michigans asshat governor decides its in the states best interest to illegally cast asside our prevailing wage law .

For those who aren't aware there is no statistical evidence in any right to work state showing prevailing wage laws hurt businesses stability or profitability , no evidence showing where a prevailing wage law plays any role in attracting new businesses or dissuading businesses from comming to the state at all , infact studies at Berkley show the polar oposite where prevailing wage helps the economy in many ways .

Keep that union flag flyin brother & help educate non union workers what union membership can do for them .
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Anti Union dolts either are Right wing or cant think for themselves. I'm a machinist. Both Union jobs I worked (snap on, and another small shop) The union was great. The jobs sucked. people dont realize that in a union shop it's all about production. And it's easy to get fired. Even though I am not in a union now. I realize what efforts are out there to roll back labor laws and kill unions.
1 Kill unions Defund pro labor candidates
2 Kill unions repeal labor laws, nlrb and go back to the time when everyone got fucked

I have watched the erosion of wages and benefits in the last 20 years in my field. Without the union the fall would be even faster
I have been involved in 2 failed organizing attempts and know all the propaganda the paid lawyers put out there.
I know all the tricks and lies they tell

The anti union people on here hate Unions becuase they are spoon fed their opinions from the anti union people. Look at the guy that has an example of how bad unions are but then cant come up with the name of the shop.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Funny sort of unrelated story.

When Michael Moore was doing his movie Capitalism is the devil!!, he moved locations because where he started out filming demanded he use union labor.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
Wut up Mongo?
I'm a union carpenter by trade, and union dues really aren't that bad at all.

I'll tell you this also: We get paid more than our non-union counterparts. By far!
Because of collective bargaining. Hourly+bennies+retirement.
We are also more trained because of our apprenticeship programs. IMO, as a developer, you would have to be retarded to choose a non-union shop to do something we do. Which is always commercial, sometimes residential.
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Aeroknow said:
I work hard like a mofo, and still can't raise a family on my income alone. It's fucking bullshit.
I have a union plumber brother.
A union electrician brother.
It's all bad. In fact, it's down right embarassing.
Good thing for my friend BUD:bigjoint:
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These two posts seem to contradict
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
your pay scale you speak of is complete bull shit. those are not facts you know of. you have no idea what wage people are getting paid. you know no other way of looking at things. the union brain washed you. you know how many iron workers are fighting to get their pension right now. your one of the lucky ones. there were a lot of lucky ones. and now people are fighting to get whats owed to them. you must know all this.
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a mongo frog said:
plus bro your 105 years old. you got in when unions were doing great things for this country.
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Damm dude i aint dead yet , as for my numbers & percentages as to unionized workers compensation packages vs non union pay scales those aren't numbers i thought sounded cool & plucked out of thin air , the info is readily available for all to see , the stastical info i posted you is infact FACTS , facts that make you a pouty boy but none the less facts .

Im well aware of unionized workers everywhere who's pension plans are in endangered status as well as critical status , what im not aware of is how any of the things you mentioned apply to unions being the cause of a pension plans status being endangered or critical ? Please enlighten me .

The reasons union pension plans are hurting have nothing to do with the negative connotations you slid in your post , pensions are funded by employee & employer contributions , that money is then invested in various yeild & various risk investments such as bonds , mutual funds , stocks & unregulated hedge funds , when Maddof & the other 30 plus hedge fund con men collapsed ( over 100 billion $ ) with many large finincial institutions imploding within the same time frame the losses to pension plans & IRA funds was overwhelming , putting many pension funds in critical status allmost overnight , then with union membership being at an all time low of 6% of the work force current members contributions cant make up for the losses .

Lousy non union thieves who ripped off investors are the cause of the Iron Workers pension disaster , along with countless other pensions & IRA's, not union leadership as you imply , the only person in this debate who's brainwashed is you & your posts show it .
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Canna Sylvan said:
My Buddhism makes me a superior human being. It's only recently that I realized I was one. You can't reach Buddhahood by supporting killing.

I don't think I've mentioned my eating habbits once since returning.
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You eat hobbits? I thought they were imaginary creatures.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
don't agree with your sentiment but that was funny.
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That little animal is the coolest looking small animal ive ever seen , is it a little baby hippo ?

Totally unrelated but when my eldest son was a little boy he called hippos " Hippomopotamouses ", we still fuk with him about that .
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
You think so? It's public record. All Florida state employees wages are public record. Look it up. I make $20,000 a year more than my union counterparts.
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I'm not about to try and guess your profession, and then google it. Impossible.
But, when comparing union to non-union jobs, you must compare the total amount an employer pays, for every hour you work;-)

BTW, Just because you make more "taxable" an hour, does not mean shit(if you even do)
Pension? Annuity? Do you pay out of pocket for healthcare?......
 
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