Ttystikk's vertical goodness

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
You need to get that core down into the low to mid 50's or add significant additional core area. Your cold water any cooler than the core, perhaps increased flow rates?
I run a half horse circulation pump so I'm reasonably sure my flow rates and thus heat evacuation rates are good.

Agreed on small surface area; 8" dia = 50in² and that's about pathetic! I do run two in the room, but it's kinda like two straws instead of one...

I'm extremely reluctant to significantly reduce chiller circuit water temps, for various efficiency and system simplicity/robustness reasons.

Guess that leaves a bigger core as the last option standing, doesn't it?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Asking that system to do over 14kbtu/hr is pushing it unless you can get those cores chillier than mid 60's. Dehu rates will jump up if we can knock that core temp down another 10 degrees.
Understood, events are underlining your words; the thing seems to be on the ragged edge all of the time.

The chiller itself is a 24k BTu ChillKing window mount unit. It chills the water that cools and dehueys room air and chills the RDWC in it.

How much more surface area would be required if the core temp had to stay in the low sixties? What if I passed the air through the heat exchange core twice?
 

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Simply put, your system isn't 24kbtu IF your restraint is ideal reservoir temps.

PERHAPS, send 55 degree water through the air exchanger to warm the water prior to it hitting the reservoir exchanger?

Even more tuned, a bypass solenoid valve / cooling thermostat with remote probe arrangement to bypass the reservoir when it's cool enough.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Simply put, your system isn't 24kbtu IF your restraint is ideal reservoir temps.

PERHAPS, send 55 degree water through the air exchanger to warm the water prior to it hitting the reservoir exchanger?

Even more tuned, a bypass solenoid valve / cooling thermostat with remote probe arrangement to bypass the reservoir when it's cool enough.
Last first; Hydro Innovations sells just such a solenoid controlled water temperature management kit, so I've looked carefully at the application.

I'm not sure I fully agree with your suggestion that I'm not running at 24k BTu; the chiller runs most of the time as it should, and none of the rooms goes completely off the reservation. AT THE AIR HANDLERS in the rooms themselves, on the other hand, I definitely agree with your assessment that these aren't moving the necessary BTu.

Here's why I'm so reluctant to reduce chiller circuit temperature; without a solenoid, water temps in the cooling circuit and the RDWC trend towards one another at a steady rate of one degree f every few hours. For 125 gallon reservoirs, I find that reasonable, since they never warm up by more than a degree or two during normal daytime operation. At night they cool again, etc, etc.

During the summer, daytime heat loads rise dramatically- at the very same time AC compressors have the hardest time shedding heat! So why don't MY afternoon temps skyrocket, especially conducting my system runs with little or no overhead capacity?

What I discovered was that the chilling system actually uses the thermal mass in my RDWC to maintain room temperatures during the hot part of the day; those cold coils warm up past the temperature of the RDWC- and start drawing cold from the 'bank' all afternoon, until temperatures outside fall enough for the chiller to catch up again.

At two Tons, I think my chiller is being assisted during the day so that the system as a whole temporarily operates beyond the chiller's rated cooling capacity. This is an advantage I'd lose with solenoid controlled RDWC chilling- and there's no way I'm replacing several hundred gallons of thermal mass easily.

It's this phenomena that I'd like to preserve if at all possible- because it's effective even with a large overcapacity in HVAC, in cases where some cooling capacity might be offline, or just not needing to buy as much capacity as might otherwise be needed.

This is why I'm investigating the use of larger condenser cores at the moment. I'm even considering a dual pass approach, shoving warm room air through a squirrelcage blower and through one half of a big core- and then right back through the other half. The idea is to wring as much moisture out of the air as possible by presenting the core twice.

Finally, the higher the temperature in the cooling circuit, the less incidental heat it will gain through lines and reservoir walls. This translates into significant energy savings over time, as well as reduced installation costs due to a smaller temperature delta.
 

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Another thought on the dehumidification. You may be blowing too much air through the core. A nice slow fan speed is better suited to dehumidification. Fast moving air tends to gather moisture droplets off the coil, thus you may be misting a portion of your condensate back into the air as fast as your condensing it.

Of course slowing your fan probably won't help temperature issues.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Another thought on the dehumidification. You may be blowing too much air through the core. A nice slow fan speed is better suited to dehumidification. Fast moving air tends to gather moisture droplets off the coil, thus you may be misting a portion of your condensate back into the air as fast as your condensing it.

Of course slowing your fan probably won't help temperature issues.
This is a good point- and an even better visual- 'blowing mist off the core'.

What do you think of a drastic increase in core surface area?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Give it a go, but my path would likely be one of reduced chiller setting.
Right. I do understand that I'm cutting against the 'generally accepted best practice' grain here. I've outlined what I think are tangible, cost reducing benefits- about which, by the way, what do you think? Are the benefits real and are they worth the cost of installing a larger capacity air handler with a much larger core?

I'm not asking for someone to do the math and hand me the answer here- I have a big junkyard heat exchanger, 12"x17", I want to try it.

Stay tuned, I'm taking everyone's bets about what it does!
 

JointOperation

Well-Known Member
in a vertical grow.. right.. I have 5 plants I didn't have a chance to put outside.. there big guys. .I was thinking my friend has a small area in his house I can use till my new house is ready.. do u think I could put those 5 in a circle around a 1000w vertical.. and then put 30 plants in 1 gallon grow bags.. on the ground.. and do a vertical grow.. and SOG underneath ? the plants I want to do a SOG with .. do well under very low light conditions.. so im thinkin if it don't turn out great. I can just turn into bho..

but im thinking u can proly get a decent grow doing it like .. or should I just toss those 5 outside .. and if they don't finish they don't finish. and just do a SOG.?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Give it a shot- just remember to train the big plants around the outside so they face the light. Nothing on the dark sides will grow, so chop that shit out completely and force the plant to put all the work into the side facing the light. Fat buds are inevitable.

Height and distance is gonna be critical; be sure you have at least 30" from bulb to plants at the beginning and let them grow in from there.

Make sure the vertical plants are directly adjacent to the bulb, not way above or below. This may mean raising them up so there's room underneath for your SOG. Speaking of, keep it low n wide and you will have grown weed on five sides of a cube...

THAT'S how you roll, bro! BOXCARS!
 
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