too much ph up?

L

Larsen

New Member
My well water has a ph of 4.7 so I have to use quite a bit of Ph up to get to 6.5( I grow in soil-FF OF) I use Earth Juice natural up, in crystallized powder form. It's main ingredient is potassium bicarbonate. My question is: Is it possible to use too much ph up? Does Potassium in this form, in large amounts, add a significant amount of K? Enough to cause a toxicity? Conversely, do large amounts of potassium bicarbonate act like Na and displace k, causing deficiency? The potassium level in my tap water is >1ppm.

In short, does anyone know if too much ph up(pottasium bicarbonate) can have adverse effects on plants? If so, how/why?
Thanks for the look
 
L

Larsen

New Member
Thanks for the reply, BSD0621.
I do use dolomite lime in my soil, and I'm starting to wonder if I should bother with upping my ph at all anymore. It appears there are two completely opposite schools of thought on this subject. I'm trying to diagnose a problem though, so I specifically want to know if excessive Ph up could(and did) have a negative effect on my plants.
Thanks.
 
B

BSD0621

Well-Known Member
I usually mix my nutes in water THEN check the PH and adjust accordingly. but for soil, PH doesn't matter that much unless it's like 4 or 7. I don't check my PH this round. grow in my sig
 
Silky Shagsalot

Silky Shagsalot

Well-Known Member
i don't have any specific numbers for you, but using a lot of the up isn't good. i use pro-tekt for ph up... works great, and is also good for the plants.
 
M

mrblu

Well-Known Member
my well water is 3.9 ph and i have stopped using ph up and down with soil. just use 1 TBS of pulverized dolomite lime per gallon of soil or 1 cup per cubic foot and i topdress some more halfway through the grow (may be overkill) and i have no problems with ph since i stopped using ph up with soil.
 
L

Larsen

New Member
Good to hear, mrblu.
I think I'm going to follow suit and ditch the ph up. My problem now is how to correct the issue I've caused by using too much potassium bicarbonate(ph up) Potassium deficiency or toxicity? Thanks for the reply.
 
alwaysgreen420

alwaysgreen420

Active Member
Imo there is another issue as long as your ph is what it should be the ph up is not the issue. Everyone could help further diagnose if you post a couple pics of your issue.

Sent from my SCH-I545
 
L

Larsen

New Member
Yes, judge mental, sodium bicarbonate is baking soda.

True, alwaysgreen, my ph is what it should be, but at what cost? It takes a lot of ph up to get there. I've read that some people think that too much ph up is bad. I just want some confirmation/clarification. I know if I post pics I will get a dozen conflicting answers, that won't help. I feel like I've narrowed the possible issues down, and more input on potassium bicarbonate would help confirm or deny my suspicion.
 
Judge Mental

Judge Mental

Active Member
Any bicarbonate in large amounts is not good for a soil system. Usually low soil PH means very little if any calcium in it. Might be a good idea to just mix your nutes and let them sit awhile and let the buffers between your nutes and your soil adjust the PH for you. If you got access to any city tap water? Get a barrel and maybe if you want to try and raise your ph, use half well water and raise it with the tap water. Good luck.

Peace
 
L

Larsen

New Member
Thanks, Judge.
That's the helpful info I'm looking for. I'm not going to use the ph up anymore- instead I'll focus more on my soil, let it do it's job. My water does have very little calcium or magnesium so I have been supplementing with calmag. In the long run I think I can remedy my problem by doing the above( assuming excess potassium bicarbonate is the culprit.) In the short term, I want to know how to help my plants recover. Do you know, specifically, what excessive amounts of bicarbonates can do to a soil system? For example, does it lock out certain nutes? does it displace K and cause a deficiency? Is it a simple toxicity? I want to know what nutes to compensate or cut down on as a result of too much potassium bicarbonates. Any thoughts? Thanks again for your help.
 
drgreentm

drgreentm

Well-Known Member
I know this is a old thread but I would to share my current experiences for anyone who stumbles across this thread through a google search as they are racking there brain over sick sad plants...

I have been using cogos original nutrients for my last grow and was using it in my current grow until yesterday. Plants have been in veg for roughly 5-6 weeks, I was going to flower until this problem manifested.

The thing is with this nutrient, when I mix per there instructions the ph is VERY VERY LOW, I am using RO water from a stealth 150 and water comes out at 15-20 ppm, I have to use allot of ph up (potassium bicarbonate) to bring it up and the higher concentration of nutrient I add, the lower the ph gets and more ph up I have to add, plants looked hungry so I bumped them to close to there recommendation and added the up as usual (quite a bit is needed of course). Next day first sign was plants where flaccid and weak resembling text book under-watering, so upped my water schedule (hydro). Plants seemed to respond well the next day the following day it was back and now accompanied with deficiencies (dark purple leaf stems, purple stems and leaf curl downward, I immediately drain res and fill with ph’d water and h202 for 2 days and drain and fill back with 1/4 strength nutrients and plants are doing much better now and starting to recover as I have changed nutrients. damage is done of course, plant leaves are twisted, wrinkled, deformed and a little necrosis signs of definite calcium, magnesium and iron deficiency I am convinced that the potassium bicarbonate ether added far too much K which caused a toxicity and locked out these very important elements or it peaked the salinity of the mix causing salt stress and essentially nutrient lockout in general.

So just a heads up for anybody seeking info I absolutely believe (plenty of tests of high salinity feed water effects on plants) that sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate and potassium silicate used in large volumes definitely has negative effects.
 
kingtitan

kingtitan

Well-Known Member
Try adding some silica or a portion of it and see how that works? I think its PH is 10 in the liquid form. GH Armor Si
EDIT: Didnt realize it was an old thread but hey!

@drgreentm mix some tap water to give that RO a bit more stability? Also you can use the tap water as PH up. You can take tap filtered tap water by putting a valve and tee at the point where the carbon and sediment filter goes in before the RO membrane.
 
K

KhanTheOG

Active Member
drgreentm said:
I know this is a old thread but I would to share my current experiences for anyone who stumbles across this thread through a google search as they are racking there brain over sick sad plants...

I have been using cogos original nutrients for my last grow and was using it in my current grow until yesterday. Plants have been in veg for roughly 5-6 weeks, I was going to flower until this problem manifested.

The thing is with this nutrient, when I mix per there instructions the ph is VERY VERY LOW, I am using RO water from a stealth 150 and water comes out at 15-20 ppm, I have to use allot of ph up (potassium bicarbonate) to bring it up and the higher concentration of nutrient I add, the lower the ph gets and more ph up I have to add, plants looked hungry so I bumped them to close to there recommendation and added the up as usual (quite a bit is needed of course). Next day first sign was plants where flaccid and weak resembling text book under-watering, so upped my water schedule (hydro). Plants seemed to respond well the next day the following day it was back and now accompanied with deficiencies (dark purple leaf stems, purple stems and leaf curl downward, I immediately drain res and fill with ph’d water and h202 for 2 days and drain and fill back with 1/4 strength nutrients and plants are doing much better now and starting to recover as I have changed nutrients. damage is done of course, plant leaves are twisted, wrinkled, deformed and a little necrosis signs of definite calcium, magnesium and iron deficiency I am convinced that the potassium bicarbonate ether added far too much K which caused a toxicity and locked out these very important elements or it peaked the salinity of the mix causing salt stress and essentially nutrient lockout in general.

So just a heads up for anybody seeking info I absolutely believe (plenty of tests of high salinity feed water effects on plants) that sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate and potassium silicate used in large volumes definitely has negative effects.
Click to expand...
Do you remember what main fertilizer you used? Was it masterblend 4-18-38 or jacks 5-12-26 ?. Something with high K already, then the additional potassium carbonate pushed it over the edge?
 
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