There is a crack in everything...

Organja said:

HumanRob
Good stuff buddy! Subbed for sure!

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Thanks! I haven't been keeping up on this thread, but we're getting down to the wire so I'll update it as things come down. I don't think I'll bother weighing this run, it was an experiment to only veg for a short time... I doubt I'll ever do that again. The results did not impress me.

I have read its great for a topped SOG keep it short and it willl bush fat, one bank told me

Humanrob said:

I'm really surprised, I've heard that SIPs can speed up flower times, but this is week 6 and I have a lot of amber trichomes and brown hairs. At least some of the top buds will be coming down earlier than expected. I was playing around with my phone and my loop, and got a couple of shots of the amber trichomes on the Jack Herer. The Jack is also starting to foxtail, this is the second time I've had a plant do that under these COBs.

View attachment 3875342 View attachment 3875341

Jack Herer
View attachment 3875337

Lemon Diesel
View attachment 3875345

Chernobyl
View attachment 3875339

Cinex
View attachment 3875346

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Is it the angle or is there a bud growing from the fan leaf on the Chernobyl?

G.nugzz said:

is that the "geen light"

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I'm kind of buzzed... I just realized in that last post I was describing the Chernobyl. The Cinex is a funny plant, it has the thinnest weakest branches of any in this bunch. It can't even hold its buds up, the plant totally collapsed in on itself, barely propped up by the scrog. Like the Chernobyl, the Cinex not a big producer. I won't be running either of them again, since I'm growing less frequently these days there are better options for the real estate in my tents.

The Lemon Diesel smells awesome, and the Jack Herer is what I expect from a plant -- nice thick sticky stinky buds and a decent producer.

HydroRed said:

Is it the angle or is there a bud growing from the fan leaf on the Chernobyl?

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Chernobyl is a trip, the fan leaves are covered in trichomes and growing out of everywhere. I don't think there is a bud growing out of a fan leaf, but they are all mixed up on the plant. The giant frosty leaves won't be smoked, but I will throw them into the hash pile. If I still rolled joints, you could roll a mean one out of them.

Most of these are considered "60 day" flowering plants. I'm on day 55, and I'm kind of torn. Some people say SIPs speed things up and shave off time, the trich's are cloudy, the hairs are brown... but I feel like they could still fatten up more if I let them go longer (wishful thinking?). My patient likes cerebral sativa highs, and hates anything that makes her sleepy (i.e. couch lock), so I tend to take them down on the early side, like at the first sign of amber.

Things I would do differently next time (not necessarily in this order): (1) Veg for at least two more weeks, probably three, and trim and shape them better. (2) Put my two screens closer together -- as it stood only about a half dozen colas grew through the second screen, so it gave very little support to the main mass of branches (it was set up from a previous larger grow with much taller plants). (3) Shop more for clones -- they were hard to come by and I took ones that had been in their 4" containers too long. They had stretched and had a "rough childhood", so they started their lives stressed and poorly shaped. Two weeks later I found much better clones (which is why I have a couple of unplanned ones in my other tent), so I wish I had held out for better stock.

Some updated pics...

Jack Herer


Chernobyl


Cinex


Lemon Diesel

Jack looks so good

Humanrob said:

Thanks! I haven't been keeping up on this thread, but we're getting down to the wire so I'll update it as things come down. I don't think I'll bother weighing this run, it was an experiment to only veg for a short time... I doubt I'll ever do that again. The results did not impress me.

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What was normal veg time, vs this veg time...This is one thing I've always been bad at and let veg way too long.

Is 4 weeks too long for sOG??? Lol

Organja said:

What was normal veg time, vs this veg time...This is one thing I've always been bad at and let veg way too long.

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I've vegged for anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks in the past, depending on the pot size (I grow in soil). As a reference, 4-6 weeks for a 5 gallon pot seems to work for me (3-4 weeks +/- for a 3 gallon, 8 weeks +/- for a 10 gallon). This time for various reasons I vegged for 2.5 weeks in both tents, but with completely different grow styles and I guess not surprisingly I got very different results. So veg time is just one factor among many.

I'm not an expert but I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer. Grows have to find their balance, and there are a lot of variables. The longer you veg the more plant you have to deal with, so first you need to know your space, obviously especially vertically. Strains have a pretty broad spectrum of grow characteristics, so you need to know what to expect from the ones you are working with. Pot size, type of medium, how you are feeding them, all come into play over the course of the grow so balancing them with the root and plant mass you are expecting is important. And then what techniques you use above ground come into play; mainlining, scrogging, LST, how comfortable you are topping and trimming... Veg time has to fit the total grow system.

Humanrob said:

I've vegged for anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks in the past, depending on the pot size (I grow in soil). As a reference, 4-6 weeks for a 5 gallon pot seems to work for me (3-4 weeks +/- for a 3 gallon, 8 weeks +/- for a 10 gallon). This time for various reasons I vegged for 2.5 weeks in both tents, but with completely different grow styles and I guess not surprisingly I got very different results. So veg time is just one factor among many.

I'm not an expert but I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer. Grows have to find their balance, and there are a lot of variables. The longer you veg the more plant you have to deal with, so first you need to know your space, obviously especially vertically. Strains have a pretty broad spectrum of grow characteristics, so you need to know what to expect from the ones you are working with. Pot size, type of medium, how you are feeding them, all come into play over the course of the grow so balancing them with the root and plant mass you are expecting is important. And then what techniques you use above ground come into play; mainlining, scrogging, LST, how comfortable you are topping and trimming... Veg time has to fit the total grow system.

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Stellar response bro.
Much respect.
I know we have interacted in the past somewhere in these threads. Glad to be back amongst you and other peeps I enjoy learning from and with.

Organja said:

Stellar response bro.
Much respect.
I know we have interacted in the past somewhere in these threads. Glad to be back amongst you and other peeps I enjoy learning from and with.

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Thanks, I'm still in the steep part of the learning curve, but it gets a little better every time. There are some good growers and good people on this site, lot's to learn here for sure.

This grow has been a learning experience... but I'm not sure what I've learned yet. I had two tents and they vegged for 2.5 weeks each, but that's where the similarities ended.

The ones in the 3x3 were started a week later, and had some from seeds which took a while to mature enough to flower (basically 12/12 from seed), and a pair of clones known for 70 day flowering, so I have three weeks left on those.

The girls in the 2x4 were mostly estimated to be 60 day flower strains, but they were in SIPs and that seems to speed things up some. I ended out cutting them all down at 56 days. That was partly because my patient likes the racier early cut high, and partly out of impatience. And this is where the lessons start to take shape in the fog of my ignorance.

The ones in SIPs/2x4 tent were in 3 gallons (+/-) of soil, the ones in the 3x3 were (mostly) in 2 gallon fabric pots. So the SIPs had more soil and the res -- so any comparisons are shaky at best. The ones in SIPs grew exponentially larger, producing huge amounts of stems and foliage. If I could have stood them up straight they would have completely dwarfed the other plants. BUT, for all that mass they (for the most part) grew thin floppy branches and could not hold themselves up. I had to do two massive sessions of trimming for those plants (branches and leaves), and it was still a jungle in there.

The ones in the 3x3 still have three weeks to go, but they are completely different plants, holding themselves up like little trees and filling out very evenly with solid buds. They have only had one session of trimming, and seem to be doing fine. The 3x3 was pretty crowded, since the 2x4 was empty I split the remaining plants up between the two tents. They'll finish with some elbow room, and half in different lighting, we'll see if that has any impact.

There are a bunch of other differences between the grows, most notably the lighting (COB/HPS vs COB/Mars) and the condition of the clones at time of purchase. I'm thinking about a solid SIP/no-SIP comparison for my next grow, but that's a long way off.

This is what's left: the 3x3 before the split


...and after dividing them between the tents

Love it bro!!! Great work!

Now that my plants are spread out more, I can get some better shots of their... deformities. The tall one looks a lot like a plant I once had that went into flower, then back into veg, and then back into flower. It started to grow some strange leaf patterns, with single twisted leaves growing out of what were the buds.

The cause in this case I'm assuming is the really severe cold snap we had. I've never grown in my detached garage before, and before I knew it night temps were in the 40's and daytime temps were only getting up to the high 60's. That went on for 5+ days. Here's the results...

Lucybean (LSD x Jillybean)


Dr. Who


This one is not too bad

Dr. Who


It's kind of a bummer since these were seeds I was testing for the first time,

Humanrob said:

Now that my plants are spread out more, I can get some better shots of their... deformities. The tall one looks a lot like a plant I once had that went into flower, then back into veg, and then back into flower. It started to grow some strange leaf patterns, with single twisted leaves growing out of what were the buds.

The cause in this case I'm assuming is the really severe cold snap we had. I've never grown in my detached garage before, and before I knew it night temps were in the 40's and daytime temps were only getting up to the high 60's. That went on for 5+ days. Here's the results...

Lucybean (LSD x Jillybean)
View attachment 3887327

Dr. Who
View attachment 3887324

This one is not too bad

Dr. Who
View attachment 3887325

It's kind of a bummer since these were seeds I was testing for the first time,

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Bro I had mega plant issues in my room inside my Unheated garage. Just the way our plants inside the artificial environment can't hang! I've noticed the whackiness too...I wish I had pics. Damn. It'll be interesting to see what comes of them.

Organja said:

Bro I had mega plant issues in my room inside my Unheated garage. Just the way our plants inside the artificial environment can't hang! I've noticed the whackiness too...I wish I had pics. Damn. It'll be interesting to see what comes of them.

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After this run I'm going to do a lot of work on the garage -- primarily bring more electricity out there and insulate it better. Right now the HPS is heating the tent sufficiently during the day and I run a dehumidifier in the room at night that puts off a decent amount of heat. As long as the night temps stay above freezing it's OK, but obviously I can't count on that.

It will be interesting to see. The Lucybean reacted the worst. The other LSD cross -- LSD x Bruce Banner #3 (Lucy Banner), looks pretty normal. The two I bought as clones are fine. There was only one way to learn if growing out there would work, and that was to try it. It was definitely worth it.

Humanrob said:

After this run I'm going to do a lot of work on the garage -- primarily bring more electricity out there and insulate it better. Right now the HPS is heating the tent sufficiently during the day and I run a dehumidifier in the room at night that puts off a decent amount of heat. As long as the night temps stay above freezing it's OK, but obviously I can't count on that.

It will be interesting to see. The Lucybean reacted the worst. The other LSD cross -- LSD x Bruce Banner #3 (Lucy Banner), looks pretty normal. The two I bought as clones are fine. There was only one way to learn if growing out there would work, and that was to try it. It was definitely worth it.

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We should chat it up. I think our space shares similar issues!
I'm actually running a heater on one side of my tent... inside the tent. To keep temps legit...

Organja said:

We should chat it up. I think our space shares similar issues!
I'm actually running a heater on one side of my tent... inside the tent. To keep temps legit...

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I've run heaters in tents before, if you are venting the air out its a lot of electricity in the end. This run my biggest electrical impact is the dehumidifiers.

The thing about my garage is that even though it is partially insulated, the temps fluctuate a LOT depending on the outside temperature. So I have been adjusting things almost daily. A previous owner divided the garage, and the back 2/3's were made into a room that has insulation in the walls... then they started to insulate the roof but ran into problems and just stopped. So currently there is a large opening in the ceiling (of the "room" space) which I have covered with plastic... but no insulation there. Among the long list of projects, I'm going to cover that hole and insulate the ceiling and vent the roof for passive summer cooling. That should seal up the room area much better.

I have a cool tube for my 600w HID. Kind of ironically, to varying degrees I'm just pumping the warm air back in. There are two passive intakes and one is taking cool air from the room and the other is getting warmed air. I think that's why some of my plants reacted to the cold and not others -- depending on which vent they were near there could be as much as a 10º difference in air temps.

This looks pretty odd, but it actually works. The ducting on the left is from the output on the cool tube exhaust fan, the ducting on the right is the intake vent at the bottom of the tent (on one side). The closer I put them, the less ambient air mixes in and the warmer it gets which gives me some control. It's a PITA to monitor but it has kept me going for this grow.

Humanrob said:

I've run heaters in tents before, if you are venting the air out its a lot of electricity in the end. This run my biggest electrical impact is the dehumidifiers.

The thing about my garage is that even though it is partially insulated, the temps fluctuate a LOT depending on the outside temperature. So I have been adjusting things almost daily. A previous owner divided the garage, and the back 2/3's were made into a room that has insulation in the walls... then they started to insulate the roof but ran into problems and just stopped. So currently there is a large opening in the ceiling (of the "room" space) which I have covered with plastic... but no insulation there. Among the long list of projects, I'm going to cover that hole and insulate the ceiling and vent the roof for passive summer cooling. That should seal up the room area much better.

I have a cool tube for my 600w HID. Kind of ironically, to varying degrees I'm just pumping the warm air back in. There are two passive intakes and one is taking cool air from the room and the other is getting warmed air. I think that's why some of my plants reacted to the cold and not others -- depending on which vent they were near there could be as much as a 10º difference in air temps.

This looks pretty odd, but it actually works. The ducting on the left is from the output on the cool tube exhaust fan, the ducting on the right is the intake vent at the bottom of the tent (on one side). The closer I put them, the less ambient air mixes in and the warmer it gets which gives me some control. It's a PITA to monitor but it has kept me going for this grow.

View attachment 3887990

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Genius with the box man! I am considering doing some very similar setup. Although I have a room outside of the growroom thst is fully insulated it's basically a pump house, where I was going to use as an air mixing box to get the inputs I need. I'm like you, the fluctuation of temp is out of control! I need to insulate walls still, and figure out how to encapsulate the footer in the room or build a floor to raise everything off the cold concrete!... good times