The Truth About Flushing

nickers said:

Hey RM3 do you prefer this method or the boil method or is they a way to do both say flood , then maybe drain and do the the boil method?

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nickers said:

So boiling water for plant lights on for 3 days then harvest?

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RM3 said:

As the guy that wrote "The Truth About Flushing" (Google it) years ago I want to first address all the new growers that may read this.

You will find a lot of hype and a lot of myths as well as a lot of BS in pot forums. You will also find little nuggets of truth, but you have to look for em and it means a lot of reading. My advice to new growers has always been, go read regular garden forums, Google "Al Tapla" and read everything you can find !!! He is a regular garden guru and his instruction is pure gold. Learn to grow and keep a plant healthy. Learn to read the plants needs and get 3 good harvest under your belt. Then start experimenting !!! and see stuff for yourself, keep an open mind and never put your foot down as this is how we learn new things. I've been growing for over 40 years and I still have experiments going in every grow, my current grow ,,,,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=295624

Has 4 experiments running at the moment. There are also pics and post that will verify things I'm about to share

My point, new growers, is there are a lot of ways to grow this plant and you need to find what works for you and fills your needs. The best way to do this is try things that you find via reading/research and observe the results for yourself.

As already stated the flushing debate has gone on for many years and I have always stood on the flushing is bad side. If you actually go read my post on the truth about flushing you'll see it does have links to science backing up the points, but I have been told there are dead links now these years later. Doesn't matter, I'm not here to pimp the article or to argue, I'm here to settle this decades long debate and give the other side their science lol.

Yeppers, both sides are right in terms of the finished product and for new growers this may well be the most important thing I share with you today. Good buds, non harsh, white ash, tasty buds are the result of a proper cure ,,,,,,, period ! Bad taste, harshness, snap crackle pop and black ash are the result of unfermented sugars, not nutes and are the result of a bad/improper cure ,,,,,,, period ! Take a teaspoon of sugar and apply a flame to it, you'll see what I mean. It is of utmost importance that you learn how to properly cure em !!!

I myself, do things very differently then most, when my plants are ready to harvest I water em with boiling water, then leave em under the lights for 3~4 days I keep em green and healthy, I use chem nutes and I don't flush at the end. If you read my grow journal, you'll see independent smoke reports that describe my buds. I invented and use a fermentation chamber to dry and cure my herb and it is based on the way tobacco and other plants are cured, a brief description,,,,

Quote:
In general, curing can be divided into three distinct stages: yellowing, leaf drying, and stem drying. The first stage can be described as a period of major chemical conversions and color development. Air temperature in the barn is maintained between 30 and 40°C, with relative humidity of 80 to 95%, (5,12) for about 48 h or until the leaves turn yellow. In the second stage, air temperature in the barn is increased gradually to 50 or 60°C, while relative humidity is lowered to allow more rapid moisture removal. This stage lasts for 36 to 72 h (12). The last stage (stem drying) generally requires 36 to 48 h. Air temperature is increased to 74°C with further decrease of relative humidity to permit rapid drying of the midrib.
From Here ,,,,
https://boltonsmokersclub.wordpress....or-cigarettes/

There are pics of my fermentation chamber in my journal. note: I do not use the extreme temps & humidity, but the stages do occur as described in my process.

The science is basic and simple and is also very well known. In the absence of O2 (oxygen) ALL plants go into a survival mode converting sugars into alcohol known as fermentation (what we call the cure) I have attached a pic that shows this process.

My watering with boiling water imitates a flood condition and starves the roots of O2. N is the major component for the required energy to properly convert the sugars to alcohol and once I boil em they start pullin on the leaves because they can no longer get nutes from the roots.

Here is the science with regard to how plants handle floods ,,,,

Quote:
There are many types of fermentative bacteria in soils, such as the genus Bacillus, Clostridium, and Lactobacillus. 4 ATP molecules per molecule of glucose are produced by fermentation, while 38 ATP molecules are produced by aerobic respiration. Although the energy yield via fermentation is less than respiration, fermentation plays an important role in anaerobic respiration for obligate and facultative anaerobic bacteria, including denitrifier, Fe3+, Mn4+, SO42-, reducers, and methanogens. Sugar (glucose or fructose) is broken down into simple compounds (e.g. formate, acetate, and ethanol) during fermentation. Also, numerous fermentation products, such as carbon dioxide, fatty acid, lactic, alcohols, are released into soils. These compounds serve as substrates for other anaerobic bacteria. Thus, low molecular weight organic compounds produced from fermentation influence the reduction of Fe(III), Mn(IV), SO42-, and CO2(Richardson And Vepraskas 2000).
From Here ,,,,,
https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index...xic_Conditions

When you flush at the end or limit the nute regimen and cause the plants to fade you are taking away the "other" way that plants get and use O2 which is via gas exchange thru the stomata. As leaves fade and die the stomata are decreased and you thereby decrease the gas exchange and access to O2 once again causing the plant go into survival mode.

Here is the science ,,,,

Quote:
Green plants require oxygen for normal growth and development. The energy released in cellular respiration, from the breakdown of carbohydrates and complex organic molecules, consumes oxygen and releases CO2. Most plants respire continuously, day and night, requiring a continuous supply of oxygen. Anaerobic respiration or fermentation occurs in the absence of oxygen. The products of this form of respiration are often deleterious to the plant and the energy released is relatively small compared to aerobic respiration. Roots also require oxygen for aerobic respiration which they obtain directly from the growing media. The absorption of salts and root extension are dependent upon the energy supplied from respiration.
From Here ,,,,
https://www.hydrofarm.com/resources/...lantgrowth.php

Folks this is Botany 101, there is nothing complicated about it. The advantage of the method that ThaiBliss describes is that in the low dose feeding the required energy to process the sugars properly is available and the swelling being described is because the roots are still functioning though not at peak performance levels.

In the end both camps are right for different reasons. IMO the flush, low dose feed and fade methods will enhance the flavor profile (the fading of tea leaves is how different flavors are obtained) For me this occurs in my chamber. The keep em green camp feed till the end are getting better yields and have healthier stress resistant plants.

This natural process still occurs even if you don't boil, flood, or flush/fade your plants it simply takes a bit longer and requires a different mindset as to how you dry. You want em to dry slowly to take advantage of the process to obtain a proper cure. Back in the day we dried em in bundles wrapped in sheets to facilitate this process.

Two other practices widely known are to girdle the stems and/or to break the stems knocking the plants over before harvest. Both of these methods require a few weeks for results to occur properly.

And there you have it the science that explains why it all works and as I said earlier growers should try all methods and discover what works best for them !!!!

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testiclees said:

tapla is a gas bag. he has tested the patience of many, far better gardeners.

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RM3 said:

Been growin in his gritty mix for years LOL IMO no better way to grow

but that is the thing, there are a lot of opinions out there. We all seem to pick the ones we like LOL

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VTMi'kmaq said:

Imho it boils down to whats worked for the plants BEFORE human influence.....what did nature do to these plants while they grew feral???? never seen a time of year on the east coast(short of hurricane seasons) that would mimic a "flush" as its so eloquently put. I always thought activated charcoal being in my soils would help.........................

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althor said:

Wow RM3 how in the heck do you avoid ROT and MOLD curing your buds in such high humidity? I already have problems with mold during the summer because my area is generally 80% + humidity during the summer.

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Flowki said:

I don't understand this at all, If you are boiling the roots is that not out right killing them?. I can't make logic of how different this is than chopping the plant at it's base and suspending it in place under the lights for 4 days.

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RM3 said:

well if the stuff I have put here does not make sense then Google is your friend as this is science, not mj forum hype. Simply search for what plants do when deprived of oxygen in the root zone ?

And experiments are your friend as well, so boil the roots on one and chop one and compare.

I know a lot of growers that do the boil thing, pretty sure none of em are gonna stop but then again no one is twistin no ones arm here, you either try it or you don't. Those that have tried it tend to do it for some silly reason, oh wait it speeds up the cure, that's why we do it

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Flowki said:

I am not being skeptical I simply don't understand the diff between boil killing the roots so that they no longer transport oxygen over chopping the stem so they no longer transport. Unless I am missing some ability of the stem to draw energy from the dead mass?. I was then going to ask that if not, is the difference not just 4 more days in the light that allows more burn up of certain componds or what not (something not typically done if you just cut at stem and hang in dark to dry). Is killing the roots in either case not similarly putting them in the state cuttings are first in, with the obvious difference of encouraging root production.

I am assuming boiling hot water will quickly kill/render the roots useless other than holding the rest of the plant upright?. More over, is it not possible to simply flood the roots with carbon water for the same effect minus having to boil gallons of water?.

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