The positive, economic effect of lowering the minimum wage to $0

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
There are some E.U. countries which have NO minimum wage laws.
It is helpful to compare and contrast:

There are seven European Union (E.U.) countries in which no minimum wage is mandated (Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, and Sweden). If we compare the levels of unemployment in these countries with E.U. countries that impose a minimum wage, the results are clear. A minimum wage leads to higher levels of unemployment. In the 21 countries with a minimum wage, the average country has an unemployment rate of 11.8%. Whereas, the average unemployment rate in the seven countries without mandated minimum wages is about one third lower — at 7.9%.


http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/let-data-speak-truth-behind-minimum-wage-laws

The very simple concept of freedom seems to elude those who wish to dictate what wage a free human being should be allowed to accept. A truly free individual should be able to choose what is acceptable for his labor.
So much for freedom.


And here is a piece by the illustrious Thomas Sowell;
http://www.creators.com/conservative/thomas-sowell/minimum-wage-madness.html

Most nations today have minimum wage laws, but they have not always had them. Unemployment rates have been very much lower in places and times when there were no minimum wage laws.

Switzerland is one of the few modern nations without a minimum wage law. In 2003, "The Economist" magazine reported: "Switzerland's unemployment neared a five-year high of 3.9 percent in February." In February of this year, Switzerland's unemployment rate was 3.1 percent. A recent issue of "The Economist" showed Switzerland's unemployment rate as 2.1 percent.
Thanks for sharing facts rather than feel good bullshit. You can't argue with John Hopkins U. You can argue with lies from the likes of the Obamas and Billary.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
As Saddam chained and brutalized children in torture chambers and threw innocent folks off 2 story buildings to their death. Built opulent mansions with every kind of comforts known to man, on the backs of his tax paying servants. Then there was the use of weapons of mass destruction killing thousands of his own, the Kurds.

Yeah, nice guy that Saddam was. Enough so that he was tried and hung by his own kind.

Bush was right......Obama runs.
Lulz! You might sprain your ankle, but you definitely won't die unless you're some frailey old fuck like UncleBen
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Bullshit. If so, there would be thousands of businesses shut down by the IRS and taken to court.

I guess if you're digging ditches you might find some sap that doesn't report wages. Forget any bennies though.
You first call my entire assertion, bullshit. In that, you are saying I am completely fabricating the information. And in your same argument you concede that it's possible.

Ok. Thanks.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
See4, I guess you danced around that question. That wasn't even fucking close to asking a military guy what he thought of the trade BarryO made for a runner. try again.
You're not a bright man, we know this. So let me try to simplify my earlier response for you.

You ask me to ask "a military guy" what he thought of the trade BarryO made for a runner. I responded by stating that it's about 50/50 on who you ask. Clearly that went way the fuck over your head.

Dumb dumb will always be dumb dumb I suppose.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
You're not a bright man, we know this. So let me try to simplify my earlier response for you.

You ask me to ask "a military guy" what he thought of the trade BarryO made for a runner. I responded by stating that it's about 50/50 on who you ask. Clearly that went way the fuck over your head.

Dumb dumb will always be dumb dumb I suppose.
What does being a pub or a dem have to do with how they feel about trading enemy leaders for a runner? I know its a tuff one to answer for you because it makes barryO look like a fucking trader him self.

So your answer was kind of a liberal whatever the fuck it was pile of poop. Just like that present buck left for his buddies to clean up.
 
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Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
What does being a pub or a dem have to do with how they feel about trading enemy leaders for a runner? I know its a tuff one to answer for you because it makes barryO look like a fucking trader him self.

So your answer was kind of a liberal whatever the fuck it was pile of poop. Just like that present buck left for his buddies to clean up.
What kind of pathetic piece of shit want's to stay in a losing war while thousands of American soldiers get killed, maimed and if they return at all are never the same person as when they left?

Your neoconservative ideology is responsible for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths and further destabilization of the middle east
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I graduated high school in 2005, the people that fought that war were the people I went to school with, my generation

They died because you believed the bullshit the Bush administration told you, it scared you and you ran to the government to protect you
 

see4

Well-Known Member
What does being a pub or a dem have to do with how they feel about trading enemy leaders for a runner? I know its a tuff one to answer for you because it makes barryO look like a fucking trader him self.

So your answer was kind of a liberal whatever the fuck it was pile of poop. Just like that present buck left for his buddies to clean up.
Maybe we are arguing about two different things here then. Are you referring to the free trade bill that was sponsored by Republican Orrin Hatch? And what does that have to do with the military? And what do you mean President Obama is a "trader"? Are you implying he is a day trader and makes money off commodities? Or he trades baseball cards? Or were you trying to say the word, "traitor"? Gather your thoughts, think about what it is that you want to say, and present to us clearly.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
There are some E.U. countries which have NO minimum wage laws.
It is helpful to compare and contrast:

There are seven European Union (E.U.) countries in which no minimum wage is mandated (Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, and Sweden). If we compare the levels of unemployment in these countries with E.U. countries that impose a minimum wage, the results are clear. A minimum wage leads to higher levels of unemployment. In the 21 countries with a minimum wage, the average country has an unemployment rate of 11.8%. Whereas, the average unemployment rate in the seven countries without mandated minimum wages is about one third lower — at 7.9%.


http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/let-data-speak-truth-behind-minimum-wage-laws

The very simple concept of freedom seems to elude those who wish to dictate what wage a free human being should be allowed to accept. A truly free individual should be able to choose what is acceptable for his labor.
So much for freedom.


And here is a piece by the illustrious Thomas Sowell;
http://www.creators.com/conservative/thomas-sowell/minimum-wage-madness.html

Most nations today have minimum wage laws, but they have not always had them. Unemployment rates have been very much lower in places and times when there were no minimum wage laws.

Switzerland is one of the few modern nations without a minimum wage law. In 2003, "The Economist" magazine reported: "Switzerland's unemployment neared a five-year high of 3.9 percent in February." In February of this year, Switzerland's unemployment rate was 3.1 percent. A recent issue of "The Economist" showed Switzerland's unemployment rate as 2.1 percent.
@Wavels, thank you, for finally engaging in this discussion with facts and not a three line riposte. I read the Cato institute article and had read the article by Sowell earlier. In both cases, they make a rather simplistic argument that a minimum wage causes unemployment. As far as the Cato article goes, they prove the old maxim that correlation does not prove causation.

Looking at the countries that Cato holds up as examples where no minimum wage "resulted" in higher employment, they neglect that these countries do have a minimum wage but its negotiated between industry councils and unions. Sweden for example has union representation for 70% of their workers. The other countries listed with no minimum wage also have strong union representation. The reasons for these countries good employment situation has nothing to do with a lack of a statutory minimum wage law, their minimum wages are set through collective bargaining.

If we look at the countries that have a statutory minimum wage, its quite low compared to minimum negotiated wages compared for the six "model" nations.

Time and again, this argument that minimum wages cause increased unemployment are pieced together with partial, cherry picked data. A closer look shows them to have no validity. There are economic models that also give backing to theory for why higher minimum wages aren't culprits in higher unemployment. I went over one of these arguments in a posting on this thread: https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-positive-economic-effect-of-lowering-the-minimum-wage-to-0.871917/page-4. The Sowell article is refuted in this posting. I won't go into it here but will be glad to rehash it if you want.

some back-up information:

Wikipedia entries on the six "no minimum wage countries listed in the Cato article:
Austria
, nationwide collective bargaining agreements set minimum wages by job classification for each industry and provide for a minimum wage of1,000 per month—Wages where no such collective agreements exist, such as for domestic workers, janitorial staff, and au pairs, are regulated in pertinent law and are generally lower than those covered by collective bargaining

Cyprus, €870 per month for shop assistants, nurses' assistants, clerks, hairdressers, and nursery assistants; it rises to €924 after six months' employment. For asylum seekers working as unskilled workers in the agricultural sector, the minimum monthly wage was 425 euros ($570) with accommodation and food provided. For skilled workers in the agricultural sector, the minimum salary was 767 euros ($1,040) without accommodation and food

Denmark, negotiated between unions and employer associations; the average minimum wage for all private and public sector collective bargaining agreements was approximately DKK 110 ($20) per hour, exclusive of pension benefits.

Finland, the law requires all employers, including non-unionized ones, to pay minimum wages agreed to in collective bargaining agreements; almost all workers are covered under such arrangements

Germany, €8.50 per hour. A higher minimum wage is often set by collective bargaining agreements and enforceable by law.

Italy, instead set through collective bargaining agreements on a sector-by-sector basis

Sweden, set by annual collective bargaining contracts

Minimum wages in countries that have mandated them:

Among the 22 member states that have national minimum wages, Eurostat has divided them into three main groups. In January 2015, ten countries had minimum wages below €500 per month: Bulgaria (€184), Romania (€218), Lithuania (€300), the Czech Republic (€332), Hungary (€333), Latvia (€360), Slovakia (€380), Estonia (€390), Croatia (€396) and Poland (€410).

In five other member states, minimum wages were between €500 and €1,000 per month: Portugal (€589), Greece (€684), Malta (€720), Spain (€757) and Slovenia (€791).
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Now the question is were the people of Iraq better off when bush left or after six years of BarryO playing commander and chief? Answer that before blaming bush anymore.
Your question is a non starter. Bush and his team misunderestimated the situation in Iraq when he went in and was unprepared for occupation and re-establishing a government once they tore down the existing system. There is no question that the 100,000 dead due to our invasion and civil war thereafter and the Iraqi population in general would be better off today if Bush had stayed out of Iraq.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Maybe we are arguing about two different things here then. Are you referring to the free trade bill that was sponsored by Republican Orrin Hatch? And what does that have to do with the military? And what do you mean President Obama is a "trader"? Are you implying he is a day trader and makes money off commodities? Or he trades baseball cards? Or were you trying to say the word, "traitor"? Gather your thoughts, think about what it is that you want to say, and present to us clearly.
So I miss spelled traitor. I will go back and fix it. That way you can re think your answer.
 

theexpress

Well-Known Member
That's just retarded man. Taxes are what paved the roads you drive on, clean the air you breathe, build the military that protects you.

Nobody ever says taxes are the answer to everything, the problem is with the Republicans who like to spend their way through life and then blame it on the Democrats. The Democrats, being the adults in this two party system, have to make tough choices in life, like raising taxes to pay for things like, ummm, the two longest wars known to man. Thanks Bush.
Lol those same paved roads they been working on for years that never get done? You mean those union jag offs getting paid Like 40$ an hour to sleep in there cars and do a slow shitty union job? I don't need no military to protect me.. I'm well armed in case the British come back. The clean air I breath comes from when it rains.. rain is free. Those bitch Ass emissions test aren't.. . I'm sick of all these unauthorized taxes.
 

theexpress

Well-Known Member
I graduated high school in 2005, the people that fought that war were the people I went to school with, my generation

They died because you believed the bullshit the Bush administration told you, it scared you and you ran to the government to protect you
They died because they were idiots and signed up for the armed forces at time of war. They knew what they were getting into. The fact they died during combat doesn't touch my heart as much as an innocent child getting shot in the head because some gang bangers stray Bullitt hit her because her community is lawless due to decades of democratic rule.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Lol those same paved roads they been working on for years that never get done? You mean those union jag offs getting paid Like 40$ an hour to sleep in there cars and do a slow shitty union job? I don't need no military to protect me.. I'm well armed in case the British come back. The clean air I breath comes from when it rains.. rain is free. Those bitch Ass emissions test aren't.. . I'm sick of all these unauthorized taxes.
There's always Canada.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
They died because they were idiots and signed up for the armed forces at time of war. They knew what they were getting into. The fact they died during combat doesn't touch my heart as much as an innocent child getting shot in the head because some gang bangers stray Bullitt hit her because her community is lawless due to decades of democratic rule.
Democrats are the only ones in government concerned with ending the drug war, you can thank republican policy for every unintentional death caused by the sale or acquisition of illegal drugs, including every overdose
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Ok. So how again is President Obama a traitor?
His actions on giving back enemy leaders for a runner was the point of looking like a traitor. But I can tell you run from that question kinda like the runner we are talking about. so never mind.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
His actions on giving back enemy leaders for a runner was the point of looking like a traitor. But I can tell you run from that question kinda like the runner we are talking about. so never mind.
What kind of pathetic piece of shit want's to stay in a losing war while thousands of American soldiers get killed, maimed and if they return at all are never the same person as when they left?

Your neoconservative ideology is responsible for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths and further destabilization of the middle east
 
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