Discussion in 'Drain-To-Waste Hydro' started by jberry, Aug 9, 2009.
Theoretically, you cannot over water Coco .
Both my RO and rain water are under 7 ppm. Back when I began having an interest in Canna products I tried using straight A&B and I had hell with pH. I spoke with the folks at Canna USA and was told to add my tap water to raise the ppm of the RO/rain to around 120. Well I have know idea what is in my tap as the ppm is somewhere around 800 and I knew that coco needed extra Ca and Mag I began adding around 0.5 grams of Epsom/gal and make up the difference in ppm with Cal/Magic. In 5 gallons I add 2 grams Epsom and 2 to 4 ml of Cal/Magic, this brings my ppm to approx 120.
I then add A&B to get my ppm up to around 420 to 450 in veg., that give me 300 to 350 ppm of A&B, in flower that number goes up to 400 to 450 ppm. N
No tip burn, still a little deeper green than I like but good growth and "Less is More".
As I stated before I use all the remaining Canna product at very close to the recommended rates.
15 days +/- from harvest, when do you guys flush your plants?
2 gallon smart pots, 100% Canna coco and Canna nutes.
Also, when flushing with plain pH'ed water, I use RO/rainwater because my tap is so bad (800+ ppm). The RO/rainwater is extremely low, 4 to 7 ppm or 0.0008 to 0.0014. When preparing my nute solution I was told by Canna that I should raise my ppm/EC to 120 ppm/ 0.24 EC prior to adding nutes. I use 2 grams of Epson and between 2 and 3 ml in 5 gallons to get to 120 ppm. It is at that point that I add nutes.
That being said when flushing with pH'ed solution should I bring it to the 120 ppm point. Using pH'ed RO water to flush is damn near impossible without buffering, raising the pH/EC.
What do you guys do or think of this?
If you don't buffer your coco with calmag when you wet it, you will have perpetual problems with it. It will have tonnes of P and Na that is not good for your plants and may be at high enough levels to lock out other nutrients. When you buffer it, with calmag, the Ca which has a double positive bond will push off the P. and Na which has only one, leaving room for a bit of magnesium to bind to the coco too. If you don't do this, well.... try both ways then you don't have to take anybody's word for it.
Last 10 days cannazym only. It cuts N out completely and should make nice smoke and bud will get denser.
Canna Coco is probably the best Coco and it's pre charged.
I agree, but I have not had to do this with Canna Coco, precharged.
When using another brand I did do a good buffer.
My question was about buffering the RO/rainwater prior to flush.
Thanks for the input.
I would be leary of "precharging" or rinsing all but the cheapest of cheapo brands of coco coir. All the brands Ive used at the hydro store have been ready to grow right from the brick or bag. There are some cheap crap brands out there that I wouldnt touch even with a good rinse and some calcium/magnesium buffer added in. But Botanicare..General Hydroponics..Canna..House and Garden...Nutrifield..Atami..Cyco..Aurora..Royal Gold..Ive used them all and they all are rinsed and prebuffered before you buy them. And for me good to go. Ive settled on Canna bricks the last year or so. But Botanicare Readygro or Cocogro is really good chit as well. They all are really. Just pick your brand and stick to it. If there is a fuk up...its 90% of the time something the grower did or didnt do. Nutrient brands included.
Okay so I got my clones transplanted into some 1 gallon pots about a week ago. I watered them into the pots till I got runoff. I didn't have to water them until 4 or 5 days later (so total I have watered twice in 6-7 days). I can see the plants have grown and there roots are filling out. The plants look a little over watered but not terrible and I imagine that will go away real soon as the root balls grow. My question is - When can I start watering once a day and move up from there? I'm just hand watering now and I have a drip system all set and ready to go.
Just some more info-
Sealed Room (really sealed)
co2: roughly 600 ppm
1 Gallon plastic pots
full line of canna coco nutes feeding at recommended ml/gal for their "light feed"
Lights: currently under 250W of COB cxb3590 leds. (I have another 750W of light once the girls grow bigger)
One thing i think where manufacturing instructions and advise says to water new transplants in till runoff...its a big no no in my opinion. First off..its a new medium...there is no build up of anything to run off. Second...its just too much for little younglings with a barely establishment root system. Just need to get the feel of it and water/feed lightly and ideally around the rootball..not on it. And certainly not until runoff. It could take a long time fpr the New medium/plant/pot to dry down amd ive found causes trouble. You want to water in a light feed dose with a root/transplanting supplement just enough to rewet the substrate/medium to where it will dry down in just one to 3 days..then do it again. Think wet dry wet dry at first to get roots really cranking. The whole water new transplants until runoff is bad advice. To each his own though. Amd this is with any medium..not just coco.
Yeah I followed that advise kind of blindly... I'm new to coco and I figured the clones had decent roots and it was only a 1 gal pot but I can see it is causing some issues. The girls are growing at a decent rate I can just tell they need more nutes because they are a lighter shade of green than I like and I don't want to keep watering them.. When can I assume they are good to put on a watering schedule of once a day? Two or so weeks into veg sound okay? I was planning on transplanting them out of the 1 gallon pots about a week before they get flipped for flower. From what I'm reading here I don't think I am going to go any bigger than 2-3 gallons for their final pot size. I have grown in soil for years now and always was in a minimum of 5 gallons up to 7. I have seen people pulling pretty good numbers per plant out of 2 gallon pots. I have 8 plants in a 3 x 6 tray and I am setting a goal of 4 zips a plant minimum so I'll probably veg for 3-4 weeks. I think that's a realistic goal.
Just pulled 765 g's (1.21 g/W) off 5 plants plus 168 shake/leaf/small buds, vertical grow, my personal best, in 2 gallon smart pots, coco with screens. In curing jars at present.
My last grow, two plants in 3 gallon smart pots horizontal grow, two lamps, 1- 313W and 1 - 400W LED and pulled 420 g's. Grams per watt was not there but was pleased with the meds it made.
Canna suggests watering/feedint when 50% of the pot has dried down from last feed cycle. But for new transplants I would wait even longer. With new transplants you can really let a small pot or one gallon get REALLY DRY before leaves show signs of wilt stress from no water. I let the coco/pot get fairly dry. Almost bone dry but not when plant is wilting dry. Then i hammer em with a good drink. Do this dry down then water several times and it gets roots going nutso. You can do this till runoff as well but definitely not till runoff when initially transplant watering them first in...your over watering when you do it this way. Always caused me problems. It takes too long to get the pot/coco to dry for the next round of watering. And water the little one AROUND its small rootball...not on it. The new coco you back filled in the pot. What I do is from root plug (root riots/rapids/rockwool/peat pucks - all the same) to a 4 inch suqare nursery pot (or red dixie solo with drain holes - about the same size) to a one gallon grow bag to a final 3 gallon geo pot or smart pot.
Oh and i would let them veg in final pot at least 10 to 14 (even longer sometimes - just have to have a big enough veg area if your running seperste veg and flower rooms for such big pots in veg) days to get a healthy root structure. A good indicator of when they are ready to flip is when you transplant to final pot and after a good soaking...they dry down within a day or two...that way you know roots are on that "edge". High metabolism. Ive found that transplanting to final pot then waiting just a few days to a week to flip..the roots arent nice and big to support a big fat crop of buds later. You lose out on potential ounces. Let them groove in that final pot in veg building a sweet root structure. You will know they are jamming when they need a drink every day or 2 days. That could be awhile after final pot transplant. Oh..one more thing...top growth can get silly tall while your waiting for a decent root structure in final pot but use tie down and topping canopy management techniques so you dont have an over vegged top growth plant going into flower as well. Think low and wide with managing the canopy and nice 2 to 3 gallon (i like fabric 3 gallon) pots of coco that have a root system that requiries me to water/feed daily or every other day at the longest. With super green healthy leaves and multiple thriving tops on each plant that turn into buds later. All these factors tell me a plant is ready for the flip. You dont wanna rush a plant thats in final pot. It could mean a several ounce per plant difference.
That's pretty dam good. I would be thrilled to get that as a result. I really just need to dial in my watering/feeding schedule to get better results because my room and environment is completely under control. That being said this is my first run not only with synthetics but coco as well. Until now I've been 99% organic... Flowers taste awesome but yield is too low.
Gotchya. Yeah I can buy that letting it dry out more than 50% at first would be beneficial.. Make the roots stretch. As for the transplanting before flower. That is longer than I would have figured but I buy it. I have typically given plants 7-8 days to fill out their new pots before flower because I figured the roots were still growing through the stretch. This could be part of the reason for my lower yields. That means I will more than likely be vegging for over 4 weeks which should allow some nice size plants. I have an 8x8 sealed flower room but currently only a 3x6 tray in there. I have a PVC scrog built into the table that I need to rebuild but it can get me a canopy footprint of about 4.5 x 7' ish so I have everything in place to do well with the run just need to do well with the new drip system and watering/nutes.
Thanks to everyone for the reply btw..
You can lower your A&B rates to equate to 200 ppm during veg and 400 during flower, less is more. Now if you go this route you will need to add Cal and Mag to the mix to prevent nute deficiency. I would continue using the rest of their line at the recommended rates, you can cut Boost back to 8 ml/gal early but as you go into flower kick it back up. Do not skimp on Cannazym or Rhizotonic.
Your plants will tell you when to water, you want the wet/dry cycle to build your root system but once its there let the plant tell you when they need water. Never let the coco dry out, never! During flowerI watered my two gallon smart pots 4 times a cycle. One hour after lights on to just before runoff, then 4 hrs later for 1 min, the two hrs later for 1 min, then two hrs before lights off to 20 to 30% runoff. During veg 24 hr light in the last two weeks I was watering 6 times a cycle, low amounts except for runoff time. 10 pm 2 min, 2 am 2 min, 6 am 2 min, 10 am 2 min, 2 pm 2 min, and 6 pm to unoff.
That work fairly well for me, I would have to adjust those times when I would do a defo for my vertical grow.
I used the 200 and 400 ppm program and only got any tip burn the final two weeks of the grow. No lush grow.
So I am In beginning stages of a week 6 in coco and are having issues with leaves turning yellow with green veins on me and yet trying to pinpoint an issue except after reading in 40pgs I saw the term so not feed coco plain water or you will have issues so now trying to see what can possibly fix my issue and have good ending although I know I will be losing weight
How is your Cal/Mag?
Forgive me, first time posting here.. I've tired searching but not having much luck.
Where is the grow schedule for using Canna Products in CocoCoir?
About to start something new and want to go a full nutrient feed this time. Seed through to Harvest. Any advice is appreciated.
I've never used Canna before, only Floranova Grow and Bloom, with Nulife Weight Plus & Flariform Budstorm added during bloom. I had one plant out of two in Coco so added CalMag to that plants feeding also. I also added 1tsp of Molasses to every 4L of feed.
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