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The Official Canna Coco & Nutrients Thread

Discussion in 'Drain-To-Waste Hydro' started by jberry, Aug 9, 2009.

  1.  
    since1991

    since1991 Well-Known Member

    If your a newish grower i would stick to a base feed. You can add rhizo and cannzym early on to get cuts nice and strong with a good root system...to be honest...unless your growroom is very dialed and really good at holding consistent temps..relative humidity...and co2...your bllom and boost additives will be negligible at best. Focus on your environment and dialing in your strains. Get a good base nutrient going..watching EC and pH. Focus on just them factors for a good 3 to 5 crop outs. Once your satisfied and got a good consistent system chugging along...THEN add some pricey bloom and boost additives. You will probably see real gains then.
     
    coreywebster likes this.
  2.  
    gr865

    gr865 Well-Known Member

    Thanks S 91,
    I figured if anyone knew the rate it would be you, good info. Thanks.
    I am running my base at 300 to 350 in veg and 400 to 500 in flower. Have my rez at at 1.2 EC and over a 24 hr period my pH floats from a starting point of 5.75+ to 6.0. I finely figured out to let my nute mix rest for 24 to 48 hours prior to putting it in the rez and not to constantly recirculate my lower and upper rez's and it helps keep my pH stable. The ladies are looking great no overfeeding here, Less is More!

    Here is the last mix I made on Monday morning and put in the rez Tuesday night. This was 6 gallon RO and 9 gallons rainwater.
    chart.jpg
    This is shown as ml/gal but it is ml/5 gallon (typo) and the final EC is of the 15 gallons in the rez.
    What I have done this grow is at the end of a week's rez use, which I fill ever two day, I let it get down to around 6 gallons, pH to 5.8 and run my drip till I empty the rez, this flushes my ladies. When done my EC of the waste water is 1.3 to 1.4 and pH is right at 5.8. Then refill the lower rez with the new nute solution and pH in that rez before I pump to the upper rez for distribution. This has really worked well and I will continue doing this throughout the grow. When I do this type of flush I also add the high rate of SM90 15 ml for fungal gnats. Had them fuckers destroyed a grow. I do this instead of adding SM90 to my rez for daily distribution as I have found that SM90 causes a oil slime in my rez, Seems to be working fine this way.
    Only problem I have with this grow is I think I waited to long to start flower, I am supercropping, LST, binding and tying them ladies like I was a masochist, LOL
    I know I will love the results but it is requiring a shit load of work. And I this is supposed to be a HOBBY.
    bongsmilie
    GR
     
    coreywebster and since1991 like this.
  3.  
    since1991

    since1991 Well-Known Member

    Yer good to go. Sounds like a plan. Sm90 is some old timey stuff. Been around for years. Great additive for bugs and critters to get gone. Its pricey but it works. Just a heads up...circulating and especially areating your rez tanks witb oxygen dissipates pH down (phos. acid). Resulting in wild upward spikes away from your initial target pH. Aerate long enough and it will go back to the start pH before you added pH down depending how strong the base nutrient pH buffers are. At anyrate...your on track. Let us know how she goes. Good luck.
     
  4.  
    Freezy_

    Freezy_ Active Member

    Hey guys,

    I've been growing organically in soil for a few years now and have decided to give coco a try. I have a really nice 8x8 room that is completely sealed and has the right equipment that the environmental conditions are pretty dialed in. I have a 3x6 table set up with a 40 gallon res underneath with a passive chiller for the res. The mini split, dehumidifier, and flood table all are plumbed to a bucket outside the room with a sump pump and float valve to automatically empty my waste water. I am planning on running a drain to waste system with 3 sprayers in each pot. Growing under 1000W of CXB3590 COB's. I'm going to shoot for about 10% runoff each water, and water up to 3 times a day after plants get big enough. I always grew in 5-7 gallon pots with soil... I don't think Ill need to go that big with the coco - care to chime in on pot size? I'm thinking 3 gallon will do just fine. There is a scrog built into the table so I will flower as soon as its filled out and have a second layer of trellis for support. My other question - having never grown with an automated watering system or in coco for that matter- If I plan on running canna's whole line should I follow their feeding schedule at 100% strength or should I start lower and push the nutes up until I see the tips burn a tad and then back off? If this has been answered I apologize I just haven't gotten a real good answer reading through. Also, any other tips or suggestions for a new coco grower I'm all ears.

    Thanks in advance,
    Freezy_
     
    gr865, coreywebster and since1991 like this.
  5.  
    since1991

    since1991 Well-Known Member

    I would go with 3 gallon pots of coco (Canna brand) and run the light feed chart on the Canna website. If your running sealed you could prolly get away with the normal feed setting. Or an in betweener of light and normal. I wouldnt do the tip burn then backing off thing. I think its bad practice personally but if it works for you then... AnywAys...your feed times depends on pot dry down. Personally I think people fertigate way too much in coco and its ideal to hit them when 50% of the pot has dried down from the last feed. Use the pot lift/weight method here. Ya gotta get the feel for it. This could be as little as one feed a day or multiple feeds a day. Depends.on variables. If your finding even one feed a day is not drying down fast enough...use a smaller pot next run or heavily amended with perlite next run. Its all about dialing it all in according to the strain and size of you crop. But starting out...with a sealed room and all the right gadgets with co2 gas you can prolly get away with the normal feed chart but start with the light and play with it from there. Oh and one more thing...treat new transplants to pot up like a promix or soil type grow at first. Letting the pots get really dry after the first transplant feed. Just before wilting though. Makes for root explosion. Rhizotonic is your friend here and dont be shy with it.
     
  6.  
    Freezy_

    Freezy_ Active Member

    thanks since, I'm excited to get this grow going. Its been a long time in the making... should be cutting clones this week off my Querkle mom. I was probably going to use an inch or two of the clay pebbles in the bottom of the pots and go 100% coco..
     
    since1991, Cx2H and coreywebster like this.
  7.  
    Cx2H

    Cx2H Well-Known Member

    Feed Coco daily for best results..

    Good, better, best
     
    since1991 likes this.
  8.  
    muleface

    muleface Well-Known Member

    consider going DTW verses recycling the water (i wasn't sure what you were doing based on your post). It will be less of a hassle trying to manage your PH and EC. You also won't have to clean out your reservoir weekly. You just add more water and more nutrients until you get back to your correct EC (or ppm) Also, I have been using dry nutrients, they seem to work pretty well and cost me about $175 to make 5500 gallons of nutrients water. This is a huge cost savings vs liquid. With that said, I am not trying to grow massive buds (or any buds for that matter) so using dry nutrients is fine for my application.
     
    since1991 likes this.
  9.  
    gr865

    gr865 Well-Known Member

    "Personally I think people fertigate way too much in coco and its ideal to hit them when 50% of the pot has dried down from the last feed"

    1991,
    You know that I agree with everything you said but I would like to make a comment here, not trying to change anyones opinions.
    I am an Agronomist and during my college years I worked in field labs/greenhouses and one of my projects which I just love doing was a study on plant uptake of nutes. I ran soil, full hydro, coco and other mixes. Anyway, we found that multiple feeding with light nute solution promoted best growth.
    In my post above I hope I was able to explain it. But you can cut way back on A&B, but use the rest of the line at light feed rates, the lowest of their recommendation.
    This is just my observations, not trying to pick a fight, bongsmilie

    I do agree that most overwater coco, I know, You can't overwater coco, but you can. I have seen in many grows.


    GR
     
    since1991 and muleface like this.
  10.  
    muleface

    muleface Well-Known Member

    could you do more of a deep dive into this?
     
  11.  
    gr865

    gr865 Well-Known Member

    What would you like to know?
     
  12.  
    Freezy_

    Freezy_ Active Member

    I am going to run DTW. I agree it seems like the best way to go. I have the whole set up ready to go just finishing up week 8 in my soil run before I switch to coco.

    My understanding on this, and its just from reading not from experience, is that coco can be overwatered when the plants are in pots that are too big. If the root ball is too small for the pot than the plant cant drink all the water in the coco. Does that sound about right to you?

    Also, as far as cutting back on the a+b, have you done this with canna coco nutes specifically? I have heard another grower talk about the same thing somewhere on youtube. He hits his plants with nutes like 4 or 5 times a day with lower amount of nutes and had good results.
     
    Cx2H likes this.
  13.  
    zypheruk

    zypheruk Well-Known Member

    Feed lighter more times in a day. Fastest growth.
    If you plants are drying out say a 2 litre pot in a day and your feeding it say 2 litres a day, divide the 2l by 5 and that's 5 waterings, that's how much to feed at any one time. Same amount of feed as feeding once a day just spread out over the day.
    Reference the over watering your correct.
     
  14.  
    since1991

    since1991 Well-Known Member

    Do you own a pH and EC/PPM meter? If not...take some duckets from this last soil run and buy one. Get a quality one by Hannah Oakton or my favorite...a Bluelab Combo Meter. If you cant spring for the sorta pricey combo..at least get a pH meter first and go with the feed charts on the Canna site. But EC/PPM meters are almost ad important. With these 2 or a pH/ppm combo...you can really dial in and zero in on very precision feeds running drain to waste in coco coir. They are very much like your "eyes" on whats going on in your feed tanks and what those tanks are pumping into the root zone...which is where it all starts for big juicy buds up top.
     
  15.  
    Freezy_

    Freezy_ Active Member

    Yeah I have a Blue Lab pH meter and a crappy Hannah PPM meter but it works... I have been growing for a few years just not in coco. I was looking at those Bluelab combo meters and would really like to get one that measures water temp, ppm, and pH. I was even considering getting one of the pH controllers but maybe later.

    I figure if I set my res to around 5.5 at the beginning of each week it shouldn't drift over 6 before I'm adding more nutes and water and pHing it back down.. Hopefully the passive res chiller I have can keep my water temps around 68 degrees.
     
    since1991 likes this.
  16.  
    Freezy_

    Freezy_ Active Member

    As far as this goes what about runoff? Shouldn't I aim for 10%ish runoff each watering to avoid salt buildups? Do you just flush more often with this method?
     
  17.  
    zypheruk

    zypheruk Well-Known Member

    Set the timer so that the last feed or first feed of the day gives about 20% run off.
     
    gr865 and Freezy_ like this.
  18.  
    gr865

    gr865 Well-Known Member

    [QUOTEAlso, as far as cutting back on the a+b, have you done this with canna coco nutes specifically? I have heard another grower talk about the same thing somewhere on youtube. He hits his plants with nutes like 4 or 5 times a day with lower amount of nutes and had good results.[/QUOTE]

    Look at my post 2542, it discusses where I keep my ppm for A&B, when I have time I will send you some info on this.
    It all depends on growth, during veg, peak growth I am water/nutes at light rates 2 to 3 min/cycle and 6 time over a 24 hr period, In early flower, 4 to 5 times no run off till final cycle, so around one to 2 min per cycle per plant and the final cycle two to 3 min, after stretch, 2 to 3 and now I am day 45 with the first two cycles at 2 min and the final at 3 min. All cycles are set to give me saturation without runoff or few drops of runoff and the last time of the daily cycle is at least a 30% runoff.

    GR
     
  19.  
    Freezy_

    Freezy_ Active Member

    Ahhh gotchya... thanks zypher. I'm excited to try this out... I'm thinking my yields will increase significantly over organics. Its hard to dial in feeding with organics in a sealed room so I'm excited for coco and canna...
     
  20.  
    Freezy_

    Freezy_ Active Member

    okay gr8 I see how you run it. I have an RO filter but I stopped using it and started using a chlorine/chloramine and VOC filter that keeps trace nutrients in the water and I've been happy with that. Do you like using RO water? you don't find you need to add anything for trace nutrients?
     
    gr865 likes this.

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