The Great Outdoors

I'll start with a question:

How many of you drop seeds directly into the ground?

Last summer I ended out moving a lot of plants around, and taking plants I had intended to grow all season in pots, and putting them in the ground. I was thinking this year I'd like to just put the seeds right into the ground (or more specifically, into a large hole that has been filled with an excellent soil blend), and see if I notice a difference with a plant that has never had its roots disturbed in its whole life.

My intention this summer is to "espalier" the plants -- train them along a fence to grow sort of two-dimensionally, primarily horizontally. That will keep them low, wide, and accessible. It will also provide the space for them to get some decent mass without a lot of height, allowing me to build a relative long low hoop tunnel over them for light dep. I don't need a lot of volume (a pound or two is fine), so it will work well to force an early finish and keep them mid-sized.

That's my current thoughts... I'm just finishing up my winter indoor and I've got about 60-90 days to iron out the plan for the summer of '17.

Hello HumanRob,
I do both, last year I planted seeds last week in May. This plant was supposed to grow 4ft, this plant was 6ft. I like the idea of doing espalier style of growing.
Just started seeds from my seed chucking last year plants should do better from acclimatized seed.

Sounds like a good idea to finish before the rain starts,training a plant like that might take a bit of practice to perfect,even a narrow SCROG set up would work.Your area has long summer days a good size plant should be easy to achieve.Good luck

I use to start my seeds in plastic solo cups then when ready just cut the bottom half the cup off and plant.
Last two grows seeds right in the ground. Didn't notice any difference other than one less thing I had to do which is why I'm sticking with seed straight into it's forever spot.

If we have a long cold spring, they might get a better start indoors, but I'll probably put a temporary cold frame around them to help them warm up for the first few weeks. I also plan on starting later than I have in the past, more like late May instead of late April, so hopefully the weather will be decent.

@oragrow - I did some pollinating last summer, and ran the seeds indoors this winter to test the new crosses. The results were not good, so I'm glad I did the test and was not counting on them for my summer grow. I ran two of each cross. With the Lucybean (LSD x Jillybean) one hermied and one is taking 11+ weeks to finish, so one was weak and the other took too long for an outdoor. With the Lucy Banner (LSD x Bruce Banner #3), one was fine, but the other got bud rot... something I have NEVER had indoors before. If the strain is susceptible to bud rot, then it's definitely no good for an outdoor in the NW. While I was hoping the test run would have better results, at least it served its purpose of letting me know what I have.

eddy600 said:

Sounds like a good idea to finish before the rain starts,training a plant like that might take a bit of practice to perfect,even a narrow SCROG set up would work.Your area has long summer days a good size plant should be easy to achieve.Good luck

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I did a 6' x 12' scrog with a hoop house built over the top last summer, covered three plants. They can be very useful for keeping the plants below the 6' fence (legally they can't be seen from the street), and then supporting the colas once they get big. I'm just looking for something different this year.

NW Oregon summer has great weather for growing huge plants, the trick is having a dry enough fall to let the monsters finish without PM and mold. Greenhouses help, light dep helps. Plants with short flower times and solid mold-resistant genetics help. We do what we can, overall we seem to get by.

I did grow a 3 plants this winter from the seed. However I'm new to growing inside and I find it difficult to keep temps in a good range. I do better outside growing so far. I'm looking for somebody else's genetics if they are not SOLD OUT, to grow along with the others this year.

oragrow said:

I did grow a 3 plants this winter from the seed. However I'm new to growing inside and I find it difficult to keep temps in a good range. I do better outside growing so far. I'm looking for somebody else's genetics if they are not SOLD OUT, to grow along with the others this year.

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I know what you mean about being sold out, I learned last year that by the end of December the most popular strains are gone. I didn't order any seeds this year because I was kind of counting on the ones I made.

Humanrob said:

I know what you mean about being sold out, I learned last year that by the end of December the most popular strains are gone. I didn't order any seeds this year because I was kind of counting on the ones I made.

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I see that @getawaymountain has seeds that would probably work for us in Oregon. I might place an order if he isn't sold out as well.

http://getawaymountainseed.com/

I'm at a higher elevation so the nights are cold in early April so i start my seeds on a heat mat in a greenhouse.the warm soil keeps them going,it might give you a bit of a jump start to start them in a solo cup before moving them to the ground.I think what you are trying to do will work and figuring out when to plant and when to cover and how big before you start flowering will be a bit of a learning curve.If I was trying this I would view it as a two season project,Knock out the bugs the first year and kill it the second season.

oragrow said:

I see that @getawaymountain has seeds that would probably work for us in Oregon. I might place an order if he isn't sold out as well.

http://getawaymountainseed.com/

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I've only heard good things about getawaymountain, good to see their website is finally up and looks great. I wish there was more information about the strains, I've only heard of a few of the parent strains, so there is no indication about whether (for instance) they are indica or sativa leaning? Maybe I'll contact them...

eddy600 said:

I'm at a higher elevation so the nights are cold in early April so i start my seeds on a heat mat in a greenhouse.the warm soil keeps them going, it might give you a bit of a jump start to start them in a solo cup before moving them to the ground.I think what you are trying to do will work and figuring out when to plant and when to cover and how big before you start flowering will be a bit of a learning curve.If I was trying this I would view it as a two season project,Knock out the bugs the first year and kill it the second season.

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I'll definitely have to play it by ear, and adapt based on if we have a long cold spring or not.

So true about the two season perspective! Most things have a beta trial and then hopefully a repeatable final method. Last summer's outdoor SIP beta, gave me enough info to know that outside just putting them in the ground (since I have that option) is much simpler and can't be beat. The SIP experiments were part of trying to grow in pots to keep the plants smaller, this year I'm going to try planting later.

Hey HR glad you got a thread up. Sounds like you have a good plan.
I visualize a mainlining technique of sorts, though I believe you would have to do a lot ongoing pruning
to achieve the "espalier" look. I've never planted straight into the ground (I have shitty soil) everything is raised bed or pots, and usual soil temps in May are still kinda cool for seedlings. You would probably do well to start them indoors for a bit. Looking forward to your grow man.

Humanrob said:

I've only heard good things about getawaymountain, good to see their website is finally up and looks great. I wish there was more information about the strains, I've only heard of a few of the parent strains, so there is no indication about whether (for instance) they are indica or sativa leaning? Maybe I'll contact them...

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I've got some Island Afghani, Poison Warp and R2 Poison to grow this year. Gonna be nice to have something finish in Sept. Getaway is a straight up guy for sure, worth a PM.

oragrow said:

I see that @getawaymountain has seeds that would probably work for us in Oregon. I might place an order if he isn't sold out as well.

http://getawaymountainseed.com/

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I have an email out to them, I'll let you know what I hear back. In the mean time, I checked out http://oregongreenseed.com/ -- they are the place that was sold out by December last year, but I just went on their website and they still had some interesting strains left. I've never done the "cash in the mail" blind purchasing before, but I guess there is a first for everything.

I'm thinking that with rec legal now, dispensaries are carrying seeds and fewer people in Oregon/Washington are mail-ordering. Last year I got my seeds from a local dispensary, but ironically they were not specifically bred for our climate, they were just whatever they had.

slow drawl said:

Hey HR glad you got a thread up. Sounds like you have a good plan.
I visualize a mainlining technique of sorts, though I believe you would have to do a lot ongoing pruning
to achieve the "espalier" look. I've never planted straight into the ground (I have shitty soil) everything is raised bed or pots, and usual soil temps in May are still kinda cool for seedlings. You would probably do well to start them indoors for a bit. Looking forward to your grow man.

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Yeah, I'm just a pile of contradictions... I strive for simplicity, and then I go for a massive training technique. lol Oh well, I guess that keeps things interesting. I've never done manifold/mainlining training, or very much training at all beyond scrogs. And I've worked even less from seeds. My plants from seeds last year had some really odd stem formations, some that were hollow almost to the top and then in one case (a huge LSD plant) some of the stems collapsed in on themselves and flattened out. They did fine, produced well, looked really strange. Another one split open and then healed up with about a 6" long gap in the center of the main trunk. Bad genetics? I don't know... that one also finished healthy and productively.

It will be interesting to try and train them from babes. Of course, I'm not getting feminized seeds, so part way through the season some of those will get composted. That brings up one of the drawbacks to putting them directly into the ground -- last year I started most of them in pots and my brother has agreed to take my boys. I was able to keep them alive, and go to his house and (relatively safely) collect pollen. As noted above, my first attempt at breeding was not very successful, but I just committed to mail $165 for 20 seeds... damn, for that kind of money I'd prefer to make my own.

I hear you on the cost of seeds. I've been gifted some seeds, and lucked into a few good deals, so my genetics will be better this coming season, and I'm not out too much green.

I have started seed beds in the ground. But the plants were moved to different locations once they were big enough to transplant. That was when I lived in town and drove a bike. No way to transport plants from the house to the woods.

One thing I did notice with my Spring crop plants, the ones in half gallon pots did much better after transplant than the ones in cups. They were about the same size going into the ground, but the ones from the pots have outgrown the others.

sandhill larry said:

I have started seed beds in the ground. But the plants were moved to different locations once they were big enough to transplant. That was when I lived in town and drove a bike. No way to transport plants from the house to the woods.

One thing I did notice with my Spring crop plants, the ones in half gallon pots did much better after transplant than the ones in cups. They were about the same size going into the ground, but the ones from the pots have outgrown the others.

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Interesting about the initial pot size. I think a lot goes on when a seedling first sends out its roots and tests its environment/space.

My plans are slowly adapting/evolving. We're just mapping out this springs veggie planting and figuring how we'll divide up he sunniest parts of the yard between the crops.

Humanrob said:

Interesting about the initial pot size. I think a lot goes on when a seedling first sends out its roots and tests its environment/space.

My plans are slowly adapting/evolving. We're just mapping out this springs veggie planting and figuring how we'll divide up he sunniest parts of the yard between the crops.

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I heard someone on You Tube {maybe the Mendo Dope boys?} say that you never want the plant to know it's in a pot. That is to transplant into the next bigger pot before the roots touch the walls of the pot. But then they are looking for size. If you are wanting to stay small, keeping them in each pot a week long might not hurt you.

I plan out the sunny spots in my yard, in my dreams. Just yesterday when I was coming back from hiking, I was thinking that if I just moved the garden/orchard fence back 15 yards, and made it a little taller. Planted some ivy or grapevines on it, I might could . . . . .

If we ever get our medical sorted, I might be able to grow in the yard too. I have some good sun. I would move the blueberries if I had to.

Since it took until early March for me to realize that none of the seeds I made are good candidates, I had a real late start looking for seeds from local producers. I feel lucky though, I did find some. I've already received my photos from Oregon Green Seed; Dream Catcher (a Blue Dream cross) and Willamette Valley Pineapple -- I have always been curious about "Pineapple" crosses. And I have a few seeds left over from last summer; LSD, and a the last few "Mystery" seeds that have done so well for us.

I also have three auto's on their way from Southern Oregon Seeds, it will be my first time growing autos. They list about 50 autos on their website, they still had a half dozen strains left when I got there. I went with; Mohan Ram, Blue Mammoth, and Dark Devil. Those are my backup, since they should finish nice and early (long before the wind and rain show up) without any light dep.

Speaking of light dep, I'm a little nervous about it. From what I gather the best bet is around July 1st, cover the plants from about 6pm - 10pm. I've read its better not to keep them covered all night, that just traps in moisture, which makes sense to me. It looks like it's going to be 9 weeks (hopefully not longer) of summer -- July 1st through the first week in September -- where I can't travel, even for an overnight. My wife teaches and does some summer classes, but will be off for most of August... currently she's planning a 3 week road trip without me, since I'll be here covering and uncovering the girls and unable to leave. That's a tough one.

I thought some more about planting seeds straight into the ground... and then I thought about a bird coming along and picking off my $8.25 (each) seeds, or a garden slug eating the baby before it even has a chance to establish itself. So I decided against it, at least this year. When I have hundreds of my own seeds that I've made, I'll play with them more, but for now the ones I've bought are too few to risk.