THC breakdown temp??

Discussion in 'Harvesting And Curing' started by bigd1ckdaddy, May 25, 2008.

  1.  
    bigd1ckdaddy

    bigd1ckdaddy Active Member

    Ok, so I have been looking on here to get the temp at which THC starts to breakdown. I have seen people claim anything from 85F to ~360F. Can someone in the know please clarify. I mean really which is it? I know my vaporizer reach about 220F+ and thats right where I get the "no smoke" hit. But if I turn it lower, I don't get a very good hit. The reason I am asking is because I have heating element that will be placed in my bud dryer, but it reaches about 120F. It is taken from a Ronco Food Dehydrator.
  2.  
    LoudBlunts

    LoudBlunts Well-Known Member

    120f? fuck no....


    if i was to use a bud dryer i would keep it a little higher than 60 no more than 70-75 TOPS.....if that!
  3.  
    Lord Dangly Bits

    Lord Dangly Bits Well-Known Member

    Why use a bud drier, You are going to lock in the chloriphil and make your bud harsh, plus it will not have as nice of a smell to it. And also in my opinion it will not be as strong of weed either.
  4.  
    bigd1ckdaddy

    bigd1ckdaddy Active Member

    I am going to be making honey oil extract. I have a batch that went herm. and I hate smoking herms. So I figures why not just extract the thc. In this instance I don't really think the chlorophyll/taste will matter.

    I just want to get the thc. If the heater/dryer is going to break down what little there is then I won't do it. But if it will just remove the water, then that is my goal.
  5.  
    gogrow

    gogrow confused

    this is all i could find for you bro; hope it helps
    TEMPERATURE THC OIL BOILS

    At what temperature does THC oil boil? What temperature should I set my vaporizer at?

    Michael G.,
    Internet


    THC has a boiling point of 200°C (392°F). However before the THC boils, other parts of the oil evaporate and boil.

    Here are some important temperatures: At 21°C (70°F) the most volatile terpenoids start to evaporate, lending a pungent odor to the air.

    At 31°C (87°F) the less volatile terpenoids start to evaporate, lending the air even more pungent odors.

    At 39°C (102°F ) vir tually all of the terpenoids undergo evaporation fairly rapidly.

    At 50°C (122°F) THC-Acid decarboxylates as the water molecule held in the carbonate form evaporates. This activates the THC.

    At 66°C (150°F) Cannabidiol (CBD) melts and starts to evaporate.

    At 185°C (365°F) Cannibinol (CBN) boils.

    At 200°C (392°F) THC boils. Clear vapor from a vaporizer.
  6.  
    bigd1ckdaddy

    bigd1ckdaddy Active Member

    Awesome info. Thank you very much.
    gogrow likes this.
  7.  
    It's 5 o'clock somewhere

    It's 5 o'clock somewhere Well-Known Member

    I agree, good info....
  8.  
    maxtor

    maxtor Well-Known Member

    that means u can dry your bud up to 50 degrees celcius, without any loss?, or what?...... how long can u store buds before they loose their effect?
  9.  
    SuperLemonMe

    SuperLemonMe Member

    I'd say 31 degrees. A guy on another site made a dryer that runs at 28.5 which he reckoned was when THC starts to break down

    The above sounds like 31 C to me is as high as you want to go. I'd keep it to 25 or so, same as growing. At 25 C when crystal is forming on the plants, it does not degrade. At 32 I KNOW IT DOES I've looked at plants and the balls on top of the trichomes were gone, I assume they had degraded back downwards. They regrew of course :)

    Remember.. terpens contribute to the wide range of effects, as well as making it more enjoyable

    As for storage. You should store buds in clean jars once fully dry, to cure it. Jars are best also for long term storage, so leave it in there. It just gets better and better, as long as you open it now and then.

    Some strains are better than others it would seem. Blueberry is touted to have a very long shelf life.
  10.  
    GBW

    GBW Well-Known Member

    i found this too very interresting ???

    Credit to http://www.drugsandbooze.com/showthread.php?t=19290


    first of all, bake your pot on a sheet of tin foil at 250-260deg until when you pinch a nug it breaks apart into dust (usualy 10-15 mins for somewhat fresh stuff)

    this is the process of converting 80-90% of whatever inactive alkaloids are left into thc and thcv
    sometimes it can double or even triple the potency of your bud if you try smoking it after this process... it will bake out most of the smell and flavor though, so if your picky about that and dont care more for the medical sedation, then maybe its not for you. i can make an ounce last much longer this way though. Quote:
    What happens is, a lot of the THC in marijuana is initially in the form of THC-COOH, a carboxylic acid. When heat is applied, a decarboxylation reaction occurs, liberating the carboxyl group as carbon dioxide, with the extra hydrogen atom coming in to bond to the now positively charged carbon atom that was left behind.

    Here's my best guess at the actual mechanism: [​IMG]
    In the first step, the heat applied excites the molecule and causes the carbon-carbon bond between the benzene ring and the carboxyl group to break and reform on the oxygen molecule in the hydroxyl part of the carboxyl group. This causes the electrons from the O-H bond to move to the hydrogen. There is now a negatively charged hydrogen ion with a lone pair and a carbon dioxide molecule, along with a THC molecule with a positive charge on the member of the benzene ring that the carboxyl group left from.
    Once this happens, the hydrogen ion moves in to bond with the carbon in the benzene ring, forming THC. We now have an active THC molecule and a carbon dioxide molecule produced from an biologically inactive THC acid.
    I'm guessing that this happens via an SN1 reaction because the carbocation intermediate that is formed is relatively stable due to the positive charge not just being in the benzyllic position, but actually in the benzene ring.
    Can I anyone verify this?
    dtp5150 likes this.
  11.  
    GBW

    GBW Well-Known Member

    bump???????
  12.  
    dtp5150

    dtp5150 Well-Known Member

    i prefer to heat my weed right before i smoke it, with my lighter.

    ....newbs
    Saldaw likes this.
  13.  
    vanillasnake21

    vanillasnake21 Member

    This seems like an interesting, but a little bit dated thread. Methods that maximize the potency of your bud are always welcome :eyesmoke:. So I did a little research, and threw in a few of my own questions.

    Based on the list of temperatures that gogrow posted earlier in this thread, the first molecules that evaporate are terpenoids at 31 C , so what are terpenoids and how do they effect the high?

    Source: http://cannabination.com/tag/terpenoids/
    "There are numerous references in popular Cannabis literature which claim that Cannabis strains can smell like mango, melon, and even grapes. Well, it might not be their imagination. The odor of cannabis comes from over 120 terpenes (a.k.a. terpenoids fragrance molecules) that are made by the plant... Terpenes have some interesting effects on humans, including modulating the effects of THC (2) and decreasing memory loss... One terpene is unique to Cannabis (m-mentha-1,8(9)-dien-5-ol). All others occur in fruits, vegetables, and flowers."

    Basically they contribute to the smell and flavor of the bud, they say it helps to modulate the effects of THC i.e help make the THC effects more mellow.

    By 39 C most of the terpenoids have evoporated.

    At 50 C, THC gets released from it's base, allowing it to flow with the air stream (hopefully toward your lungs). This is the step when THC is considered active, that is, it can bind with other molecules.

    At 66 C, Cannabidiol starts to evaporate. What is cannabidiol you ask?

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
    [Cannabidiol] has displayed sedative effects in animal tests. Some research, however, indicates that CBD can increase alertness. It may decrease the rate of THC clearance from the body, perhaps by interfering with the metabolism of THC in the liver... Medically, it has been shown to relieve convulsion,inflammation, anxiety, and nausea, as well as inhibit cancer cell growth.[SUP][5][/SUP] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[SUP][6][/SUP] Studies have also shown that it may relieve symptoms of dystonia... Cannabidiol is shown to decrease activity of the limbic system[SUP][10][/SUP] and to decrease social isolation induced by THC.[SUP][11][/SUP] It's also shown that Cannabidiol reduces anxiety in social anxiety disorder."

    I think this is a very important chemical that many of the synthetic marijuanas sold at head shops lack. They're saying it helps contribute to controlling the paranoid thoughts and stay calmer, which is a generally an agreeable quality of weed.


    At 185, Cannabidiol starts to boil (Basically means the same as the previous step, except it's getting released much faster.

    200, THC boils. This is a little confusing because he says it's the same as the clear vapor from the vaporizer. But it might also means the point when parts of THC molecules break away, thus destroying it's properties, not sure about this one, maybe he just worded it wrong.

    My opinion: Based on all of the above, I would say that vaped weed is still the best way to get the most out of it. If you heat it up on a tinfoil like the other person suggested at 265 C, it would work in theory if the air inside the heating device is standing still, but in a stove the air behaves something like blobs in the lava lamp, rising when heated and falling when cooled at the top of the stove. Since at 265 C all the active ingredients of weed are floating around as vapor, even slightest air movements will carry them away from remaining ashes (and probably condensing on your stove).

    With all of that said, I think that the proposed method just mimics the same thing that a vaporizer does, but using a regular pipe. So to get the best out if it do this:

    -- Create a small ball out of small piece of foil, put weed inside (the more broken up or grinded up the better)
    -- Secure the ball and use a lighter to heat it up making sure that you evenly apply the flame to the entire ball (this is somewhat important, because if the temperature isn't equal on the ball's surface then thc will condense on the foil!) Try not to move the ball at all to keep the air inside as still as possible.
    -- Allow the ball to cool for a few minutes ( still not touching it)
    -- Now open it up, put the ashes in the bong and smoke away.

    The reason this whole process works is because when all the vapors are released, with no air movement they are still floating very close to the ash that was formed. When we let it cool, the vapors re condense on the ash itself (since the ash becomes cold and the vapor is hot). Now all you have to do is heat it up in a bong and most of the vapors will be released into the air again.

    Hope to try this very soon ;)
    --
  14.  
    vanillasnake21

    vanillasnake21 Member

    This seems like an interesting, but a little bit dated thread. Methods that maximize the potency of your bud are always welcome :eyesmoke:. So I did a little research, and threw in a few of my own questions.

    Based on the list of temperatures that gogrow posted earlier in this thread, the first molecules that evaporate are terpenoids at 31 C , so what are terpenoids and how do they effect the high?

    Source: http://cannabination.com/tag/terpenoids/
    "There are numerous references in popular Cannabis literature which claim that Cannabis strains can smell like mango, melon, and even grapes. Well, it might not be their imagination. The odor of cannabis comes from over 120 terpenes (a.k.a. terpenoids fragrance molecules) that are made by the plant... Terpenes have some interesting effects on humans, including modulating the effects of THC (2) and decreasing memory loss... One terpene is unique to Cannabis (m-mentha-1,8(9)-dien-5-ol). All others occur in fruits, vegetables, and flowers."

    Basically they contribute to the smell and flavor of the bud, they say it helps to modulate the effects of THC i.e help make the THC effects more mellow.

    By 39 C most of the terpenoids have evoporated.

    At 50 C, THC gets released from it's base, allowing it to flow with the air stream (hopefully toward your lungs). This is the step when THC is considered active, that is, it can bind with other molecules.

    At 66 C, Cannabidiol starts to evaporate. What is cannabidiol you ask?

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
    [Cannabidiol] has displayed sedative effects in animal tests. Some research, however, indicates that CBD can increase alertness. It may decrease the rate of THC clearance from the body, perhaps by interfering with the metabolism of THC in the liver... Medically, it has been shown to relieve convulsion,inflammation, anxiety, and nausea, as well as inhibit cancer cell growth.[SUP][5][/SUP] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[SUP][6][/SUP] Studies have also shown that it may relieve symptoms of dystonia... Cannabidiol is shown to decrease activity of the limbic system[SUP][10][/SUP] and to decrease social isolation induced by THC.[SUP][11][/SUP] It's also shown that Cannabidiol reduces anxiety in social anxiety disorder."

    I think this is a very important chemical that many of the synthetic marijuanas sold at head shops lack. They're saying it helps contribute to controlling the paranoid thoughts and stay calmer, which is a generally an agreeable quality of weed.


    At 185, Cannabidiol starts to boil (Basically means the same as the previous step, except it's getting released much faster.

    200, THC boils. This is a little confusing because he says it's the same as the clear vapor from the vaporizer. But it might also means the point when parts of THC molecules break away, thus destroying it's properties, not sure about this one, maybe he just worded it wrong.

    My opinion: Based on all of the above, I would say that vaped weed is still the best way to get the most out of it. If you heat it up on a tinfoil like the other person suggested at 265 C, it would work in theory if the air inside the heating device is standing still, but in a stove the air behaves something like blobs in the lava lamp, rising when heated and falling when cooled at the top of the stove. Since at 265 C all the active ingredients of weed are floating around as vapor, even slightest air movements will carry them away from remaining ashes (and probably condensing on your stove).

    With all of that said, I think that the proposed method just mimics the same thing that a vaporizer does, but using a regular pipe. So to get the best out if it do this:

    -- Create a small ball out of small piece of foil, put weed inside (the more broken up or grinded up the better)
    -- Secure the ball and use a lighter to heat it up making sure that you evenly apply the flame to the entire ball (this is somewhat important, because if the temperature isn't equal on the ball's surface then thc will condense on the foil!) Try not to move the ball at all to keep the air inside as still as possible.
    -- Allow the ball to cool for a few minutes ( still not touching it)
    -- Now open it up, put the ashes in the bong and smoke away.

    The reason this whole process works is because when all the vapors are released, with no air movement they are still floating very close to the ash that was formed. When we let it cool, the vapors re condense on the ash itself (since the ash becomes cold and the vapor is hot). Now all you have to do is heat it up in a bong and most of the vapors will be released into the air again.

    Hope to try this very soon ;)
    --
  15.  
    delvite

    delvite Well-Known Member

  16.  
    SnakeByte

    SnakeByte Active Member

    Actually with these numbers, seems it's actually the best to dry your bud at 40-42 deg C (107.6 deg F).
  17.  
    Fachina Swollen

    Fachina Swollen New Member



    Hope this answers most of the questions.

    According to this chart, if you are smoking it and want the good tastes and smells, don't heat above 102 F. Look up curing and let a good balance of oxygen and bacteria convert max THC for smoking and break down the chlorophyll taste. (At 50°C (122°F) THC-Acid decarboxylates as the water molecule held in the carbonate form evaporates. This activates the THC.) means the THC-acid is converted to THC, not activate all THC. If you want to make BHO that contains other cannabinoids, dry between 123 F and 149 F. If you want the high of just THC/THCV in you BHO, dry between 366 F and 391 F. THCV boils at 220 C. So if you want to set your vaporizer, make sure it is a little over 220 C so you get the good THCV buzz. THCV is what gives the high altitude indicas such a good punch. If there is a good amount in your bud, make sure u smoke it!

    I can't confirm those numbers in the chart are correct, it's just the cliff notes according to what was written.
  18.  
    Mattydread

    Mattydread New Member

    I know this thread is concerning mostly drying and curing temperatures, and if the resulting weed or oil is for vaporising or smoking then it doesn't matter too much if decarboxylation is completed (as it will be when it is smoked or vaporised anyway) but a lot of the info and temps on this thread are incorrect.
    Decarboxylation is what converts the raw THC-acid into active THC. This is important to know if you are eating the cannabis as THC-acid has very different effect to THC (biggest difference is that THC-acid doesn't get you high).
    Although some gradual decarboxylation does occur at temps as low as 50c it takes a long time and would require days to decarb at this temp (maybe even longer). The minimum temp for rapid decarboxylation (with in an hour or two) is 106c with a range of 110c to 130c considered optimal. These temps aren't recommended for drying/curing weed because you lose most of the terpenes this way, but if you are cooking cannabis to eat then these are the temps you need to hit to activate all the THC.

Share This Page