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Temp THC burns, decarbs, and bonds?

Discussion in 'Cooking With Cannabis' started by Gamberro, Jan 31, 2008.

  1.  
    Gamberro

    Gamberro Well-Known Member

    I used to have these memorized but I'm starting a new cooking project today, and can't remember the exact temperatures at which THC:
    1) is vaporized
    2) bonds to fat molecules
    3) decarboxylates
    If any one could remind me, I'd really appreciate it.
    BlessAmerica likes this.
  2.  
    Gamberro

    Gamberro Well-Known Member

    The mixed lingo between potheads and chemists and pothead-chemists make researching this WAY harder than it really ought to be. Funny, I remember it being pretty easy...
    So far, I've got
    1) 355-392F
    2) ?
    3) 222F-(?)
    Please help fill in the blanks; I'll have all the ingredients by tonight and I'd like to be prepared by this evening, so I can sell samples at a party tomorrow.
  3.  
    Gamberro

    Gamberro Well-Known Member

    Thanks for nothing jah. Just playin, but I got all the info I needed. I felt a bit stupid for forgetting it, but people are usually impressed when I retain any information whatsoever. For aspiring THC chefs, here are the stats, all in Farenheit:
    222/+: Decarboxylation (Carboxyl groups removed, making weed more potent. I recommend 225 for up to half an hour in an oven, to avoid burning.)
    325-355: THC bonds to fat molecules
    355-392: THC "boils" (vaporizes; avoid this temperature)
    JoeBananas and Matt Rize like this.
  4.  
    GoodbyeFreedom

    GoodbyeFreedom Well-Known Member

    Medicated... so bear with me...

    So if i put a but in the oven at 225 for 30 mins.... ill get superstoned? lmao :blsmoke:
  5.  
    Gamberro

    Gamberro Well-Known Member

    Hahaha! Believe it or not, I've been told that, yes, decarboxylation does improve the high when smoked. The science behind that is shaky at best, but there is a large enough number of cooks who will make this claim that I don't feel comfortable to simply dismiss it with my offhand.
  6.  
    mikejuwanna

    mikejuwanna Member

    cooks yes, because you have to alter your THC-A into THC before bonding it to fats or even ingesting it. but when you smoke it you already are doing that conversion when you light it up.
  7.  
    poplars

    poplars Global Moderator Staff Member

    I think those numbers regarding bonding to fat may be inaccurate... I've heard of it happening at much lower temperatures, as it is oil soluble.... all heat does is speed up solubility and help melt the trichomb heads...

    and decarboxylization happens at room temperature and up, the hotter you go the faster it happens..

    what temperature THC degrades at would be a more interesting question... rather, does it degrade below or above vaporizing temp... if below, then you gotta be careful, if above, then you h ave nothing to worry about as long as you're staying below the vaporizing temp...
  8.  
    Matt Rize

    Matt Rize Hashmaster

    great thread, big bump.
  9.  
    gioua

    gioua Well-Known Member



    bingo... the same reason some recipes dont call for decarbing before you add it to the recipe it will get decarbed later
  10.  
    ipwnemos

    ipwnemos Member

    don't heat your weed in an oven at 225F for any amount of time. at 215F thc will combust in the presence of oxygen. This is slow but, when warming up a vaporizer, it is not a bad place to start.

    decarboxylation does not require any specific heat to occur. heat is only catalytic in the process. When thc decarboxylates, that means it is released from the carbon molecules(marijuana flower) and bonds, typically, to free-floating oxygen molecules. In other words, decarboxylating will reduce the potency of your weed.

    When vaporizing start at 180F until then your finally get a fat cloud upon exhaling. This may take up to 15 minutes. raise up to 400F at regular intervals. Be sure to wait for the smoke to build back up in the chamber before going back at it.

    when cooking, the range you are looking for is between 186F and 215F. When using most oils (I use olive oil and I know that this is the case) raising the temperature above 215F will have a toxic affect on your oil. Irreversible denaturation occurs and even more so thc will start to release into the atmosphere.
    Californicater likes this.
  11.  
    Californicater

    Californicater Active Member

    I was wondering how one would bake @ 350 and not vaporize the THC. My friends gf made brownies and there was nothing special about them. I knew I was right when I told her she baked away the THC.
  12.  
    YoungAndAmbitious

    YoungAndAmbitious Member

    yea you would never want to cook at 350, you want to heat the THC to the point of decarboxylation which I've read is anywhere between 165F-220F. Anything above that and the THC will evaporate right out and you will lose potency. The lower the temp and the longer you cook it the better results. I cooked an eighth of hash into 8 brownies at around 200F for 6 hours and the high from one brownie was extremely intense. I gave one to a friend who is an experienced smoker and he threw up, didnt say anything for an hour and even forgot who i was. Edibles done right will be noticeably potent, depending on the dosage that is.
  13.  
    ResidualFreedom

    ResidualFreedom Active Member

    so based on this, you are saying that when we bake cookies or brownies we r "burning" away most of the potency? how would you suggest altering cooking times to allow the lower temps? ie. cookies that should be cooked at 350 for 10-15 min... reduce temps to 250 and cook for a half hour maybe?

    Thanks in advance..
  14.  
    fonzirelli

    fonzirelli Well-Known Member

    thc's boiling point is 315F. but at the decarb point, that is when the thc evaporates from the bud? im tryin to figure out the lowest temp to evaporate the thc.
  15.  
    WaxxyNuggets

    WaxxyNuggets Active Member

    Your telling me the brownie mixture is getting to 350 degrees before it gets pulled out of the oven??? I find that extremely hard to believe.
  16.  
    cannabineer

    cannabineer Ursus marijanus

    The only way to boil THC at 315ºF would be in a very hard vacuum. I have distilled THC at 0.1mmHg, and it took 220-240ºC or north of 400ºF. Under that vacuum.

    ten minutes at 110ºC will decarb THCA to THC. Smoking or vaping have high heat steps built in, and decarb proceeds. i would consider "decarbing weed for smoking boosts the high" to be an old wives' tale. One old campaigner's experience and opinion. cn
  17.  
    cannabineer

    cannabineer Ursus marijanus

    Since the center of the brownie should be moist, it doesn't even approach boiling. For brownies, using a heat-treated product like cannabutter makes sense. cn
  18.  
    BluJayz

    BluJayz Well-Known Member

    HI all, :bigjoint:
    I hate to dredge up something from the depths but after scouring google for two days I decided this is the closest I can get to uncovering what duration is required to bind THC to fat molecules.
    Maybe someone knows now, a few years later? LOL

    I can respond on the baking brownies at 350F. Its not an issue if you used a high fat to extract your THC. The THC is protected in the fat during cooking; some may be released but then trapped in the other materials inside.
    (If your paranoid put tin fol over the brownies and create an airtight lid to trap escaping molecules. Be sure to let it cool before removing.)

    Second a few interesting facts around the above comments:
    decarboxylation-graph-b-300x275.jpg
    H20 boils at 212F
    Coconut Oil burns (Smokes) at 280F (best oil to use)
    THC boils off at 392F
    at 222F decarboxylation becomes rapid
    212F for several hours turn THC to CBN
    decarboxylation is best when you titerate from 212F - 302
    212F for 90min will strip the carboxyl of THC
    Lecithin added to your oil makes the THC absorb in your system better/faster
    chlorophyll and Terpenes are H20 soluble


    That being said, i'm still very interested in what duration is required to bind THC to fat molecules.

    Assuming you decarboxylase the meds in the oven below 392F. (Length of time not necessary for this exercise.)
    You have now activated the THC without burning it off. Now to bind it to a fat, say coconut oil.
    Coconut oil starts to smoke and will release THC at 280F; so idealistically we stay below that.
    However we know that cooked meds at temperature of 212+ for several hours will turn THC to CBN. (Not ideal if we want the High)
    At this point your flying blind without knowing what temperature THC binds to fat molecules......

    Not satisfactory for someone who medicates to get from day to day.

    Any nerds or chemists? ;-)
  19.  
    Gamberro

    Gamberro Well-Known Member

    Here is my process, which took me a few years to get to the point where I felt it was "perfect".

    Blend the cannabis into a mixture with the same consistency as wheat germ, then spread it out in a thin layer on a strong plate or a baking pan, cook in oven at 225º for twenty minutes. Next, remove from heat, put in the freezer for twenty minutes. Next, mix with solution, which I recommend either extra virgin coconut oil or SUPER-clarified butter (super, super, super clarified), pop that in the oven (if you trust your oven) at 325º as this gives 25º budge before you hit the vaporization point. I personally will then cook for about eighteen hours when doing a large batch (about a quarter pound of flowers or more), or just an hour or two for small personal batches.

    Say whatever you want, but this has worked optimally for commercial batches, and I have done a massive amount of sampling to reach these steps as my go-to method.
  20.  
    BluJayz

    BluJayz Well-Known Member

    Well I won't knock it but some clarification is needed.

    I understand pulverizing the flowers to give more surface area to extract with. I have heard you can lose some of the THC this way but I have no facts and lean neither way. I do grind mine up.

    So your decarboxylating the flowers in a pyrex dish at 225 for 20 min. Is that Fahrenheit?
    Then you put it in the freezer for 20 min. To make the good stuff brittle so it comes off easier like hash. I can dig it.

    Now here is where the detail was absent.

    You bake the oil and the flowers in the pyrex dish in the oven at 325F? For up to eighteen hours in the oven? No covering, stirring anything??

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