Sucanat, Soo-ka-nat

subcool said:

The sugar requires Citric Acid as a Catalyst
This all has to do with manipulation of the krebs cycle as explained in Marijuana Botany
Understanding this process is pretty important to become a master cultivator IMO.

Sub

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Where does the citric acid come from?

The plant makes it

Rrog said:

The plant makes it

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Right, but it also makes it's own sugar. It almost sounds like sub is saying you need to add citric acid with the sucanat in order to get the full benefit. The post was just a bit confusing and needed a bit of clarification IMO.

OMG,
This is like kinder garden some days

Yes you have to use Citric acid along with the sugars in the third stage of floral maturity in order for the plant to be able to uptake any benefits.
This is old as farming and if you look at any store bought catalyst like Sweatleaf, Bud Candy, Sweet, Earth Juice and countless others you will see that along with the sugars like molasses or what ever they use a key ingredient is also Citric Acid.
Farmers have been pouring fruit juice ( Sugar and citric acid) on crops for thousands of years to enhance flavors.

I used to get mine from the creator of Chemo his name was Nesta and his Nesta juice was my introduction to this concept. I now use the Bud Candy with molasses and I add more sucanat in.

Theoretically you could use OJ and Sucanat but I have not tried this and would not suggest it.
I do not have Nesta's recipe or I would post it.

Sub

dammit doc.111 you pissed him off!!!!

thanks sub.

Long Dogg said:

dammit doc.111 you pissed him off!!!!

thanks sub.

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It was not my intent to piss anyone off. I was simply asking a question on a subject which I have little knowledge. When I don't know the answer, I ask an expert. Had I known that would piss off said expert (the guy moderating this sub-forum), I would've never asked it. See, I live in a remote area and I don't use many hydro shop or canna specific products anymore. I've tried molasses and Sucanat as well as a handful of other products years ago. I never saw any major benefit from using sweeteners so I stopped. Perhaps the citric acid part (which evidently confused more than just me since someone else was thinking he was talking about citric acid produced in the Kreb's cycle) is what was missing which MAY have given me the results I was hoping for. My apologies to sub for "pissing him off".

doc.111 said:

It was not my intent to piss anyone off. I was simply asking a question on a subject which I have little knowledge. When I don't know the answer, I ask an expert. Had I known that would piss off said expert (the guy moderating this sub-forum), I would've never asked it. See, I live in a remote area and I don't use many hydro shop or canna specific products anymore. I've tried molasses and Sucanat as well as a handful of other products years ago. I never saw any major benefit from using sweeteners so I stopped. Perhaps the citric acid part (which evidently confused more than just me since someone else was thinking he was talking about citric acid produced in the Kreb's cycle) is what was missing which MAY have given me the results I was hoping for. My apologies to sub for "pissing him off".

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P.S. Given all the money I've spent on TGA gear, I would think a simple question could've gotten a simple answer without the insults but I guess some breeders could give a shit about helping out the people who spend their hard earned money on their gear. This is good to know. Thanks sub.

Grow some balls people my god.
If you don't think hosting this forum is like raising kids at times then your just blind.

As far as calling me greedy FUCK YOU I have send more free genetics to people in need than you could ever imagine.
Ive taught more people how to grow than go to a rock concert its just in these days of facebook, Twitter and god knows what else people have lost the ability to do research without posting a thread or even using Goggle.
I learned what I know by reading and I posted the reading material I learned it all from online in most cases.

I'm old and tired and in pain most days and I get tired of saying the same shit over and over so excuse me if I have a bit of a playfull attitude when typing out the answers.
If you don't like what I do and how I do it piss off, there is a never ending line of open minds out there that will get me and get it.

Sub

Yeah Boy!!!

by the way sorry for instegating doc.111 , I was just fucking around brother. Sub has reason, hes human, and he puts tremendous effort in his company and apparently to the community. Now that we have all had our "Fuck You's" lets get back to the good stuff.

I have some Jack the ripper curing (only sampled the scissor hash, i was alert, kind of slow motion, but not too much. A second or two delay that allowed me to think, come back to earth with little to no paranoia), and my god she is sexy, ill be getting a camera sometime this week I pray. Very interested to tweak the growing routine this round on her.

Let me ask another kinder garden question, does the sugar make a big difference in smell or taste, because I am the type of person that cant tell what wine taste like, and I have never tasted anything out of smoking weed other than burning carbon. Even smells, i have to put the jar directly under my nose and take deep inhalations.

Thank you Gentleman

Long Dogg said:

Yeah Boy!!!

by the way sorry for instegating doc.111 , I was just fucking around brother. Sub has reason, hes human, and he puts tremendous effort in his company and apparently to the community. Now that we have all had our "Fuck You's" lets get back to the good stuff.

I have some Jack the ripper curing (only sampled the scissor hash, i was alert, kind of slow motion, but not too much. A second or two delay that allowed me to think, come back to earth with little to no paranoia), and my god she is sexy, ill be getting a camera sometime this week I pray. Very interested to tweak the growing routine this round on her.

Let me ask another kinder garden question, does the sugar make a big difference in smell or taste, because I am the type of person that cant tell what wine taste like, and I have never tasted anything out of smoking weed other than burning carbon. Even smells, i have to put the jar directly under my nose and take deep inhalations.

Thank you Gentleman

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I have a few friends that cant smell weed either so I dig wear your coming from.
For those of us that can taste I feel manipulating the sugar intake can make a huge difference in taste and total resin content.
Sub

I have looked for lab data that supports the root uptake of sugars, be they simple (Glucose) or larger and more complex like Glucose. I have read where Sucrose is too large a molecule to simply pass through the cell walls. The plant makes Glucose and feeds it to fungus and bacteria as root exudate. We all know this. What I have been looking for and have yet to find, is quantified lab data showing a late flower carb load does anything other than feed the micro-herd.

We have known for 50 years that glucose is involved in the Krebs Cycle. What I can't find is evidence of a plant absorbing sugars to lessen the energy expenditure of the Krebs Cycle or any other similar system.

It is far from universally accepted that adding a carb source in flower changes the flavor / smell at all. Yet a lot of growers clearly feel otherwise. I have grown to believe that many commercial products simply fill a perceived need, rather than actually doing something.

So not looking to add to any argument. Not looking to get anyone on the defensive. Just looking to understand with actual data.

Great response Rrog best I can say is with hundreds of grows under my belt its not even a debate for me any longer treating at day 30 and day 45 produces undeniable results in smell and resin amounts you can literally smell and feel the difference.

The other reason I have stuck to this method is its pretty low cost yeah a 3 gallon jug of Bud Candy is expensive but in my small garden of 16 plants my donated jug will prob last 2 years.


The Sucanat is a few dollars a bag.

Sub

subcool said:

Grow some balls people my god.
If you don't think hosting this forum is like raising kids at times then your just blind.

As far as calling me greedy FUCK YOU I have send more free genetics to people in need than you could ever imagine.
Ive taught more people how to grow than go to a rock concert its just in these days of facebook, Twitter and god knows what else people have lost the ability to do research without posting a thread or even using Goggle.
I learned what I know by reading and I posted the reading material I learned it all from online in most cases.

I'm old and tired and in pain most days and I get tired of saying the same shit over and over so excuse me if I have a bit of a playfull attitude when typing out the answers.
If you don't like what I do and how I do it piss off, there is a never ending line of open minds out there that will get me and get it.

Sub

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I am sorry you are in pain. I too, like MANY people here, suffer from severe chronic pain from a spinal cord injury so I can relate. I also can relate to answering the same questions over and over. My sticky gets me plenty of dipshit questions that don't even deserve an answer sometimes. I either ignore the question altogether or I answer it in the most respectful manner I can muster. Everyone has bad days and I could understand if I had just completely dissed you in some way, but it was a legit question. Sorry for bothering you with what may seem elementary to you, but some of us don't have access to hydro shops and canna-specific nutrients and products. I also wasn't trying to imply that you are greedy. I think it's admirable that you donate some of your seeds. I donate a lot of time to helping vets and those with PTSD. Again, I apologize if you were offended in anyway by my question. That wasn't my intent.

I have also learned you can't outright dismiss decades of grow experience because there's no data... yet.

so back to the sucanat and citric acid thing...could i use juice straight from the fruit (lemon i would use)? or how about the juice that you squeeze from the rine??(i know what it is but just cant think of the name....)then i would mix that with the water along with some sucanat. does that sound right>??

this is where i get my citric acid. also is super concentrated ph down, stonger than advanced cuz there is no water.

http://www.groworganic.com/citric-acid-lb.html

Long Dogg said:

I googled it, found this http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbotany-removed/

Obviously there is no citric acid in your super soil, the citric acid is a plant cell production.

As far as kreb cycles and such, I cant bear to read this. Can anyone dumb it down?

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Thank you for posting this...
I have a new book to read.

Hey i got a question about citric acid. How much citric acid should i use?

As Sub and others have said, Molasses/sucanat mixed with citric acid source is CRITICAL for heavy resin production and good taste. IMO the best home remedy source of citric acid is lemon/lime juice as lemons and limes have a higher percentage of citric acid than any other fruit or vegetable. I prefer lemons cuz of the pretty decent amount micronutrients it has compared to lime, and when you combine with molasses, it is a very good source of potassium. Idk if most of you already know this, but both molasses/sucanat and citric acid, in addition to feeding your soil microbes and helping in Kreb's Cycle, ALSO help your microbes and roots absorb nutrients more efficiently through a process called chelating, look it up, very interesting. This also helps prevent nutrient lockout by reducing the buildup of reactive metals.

!!!!!BEWARE THOUGH, lemon juice is very acidic. a 1/2 tablespoon will drop a Gallon of water a whole integer (ie from pH 7--> pH 6) so you will want to pH buffer/adjust the water for sure.!!!!!!

I like bud candy or carbo load. Ps I love ur supersoil sub it's fucking awesome and if anyone can't do this with excellent results they are hopeless. I tried roots, biobiz, botanicare, earth juice, foxfarm. And never got results like the advanced line gave me. But I knew organics were the stuff that awesome weed some hippie had at the phish parking lot. But now I have that same quality, superdank nugs that this hippie has in my stash jars. I can't figure out how to upload my pics but they are huge like forearm long at the bottom are like melon big and taper to 3 big finger tops. I just wanted to get the honor of thanking you personally. I got a lot of tga genes I want to pop but I'm making my way into more. I popes the chernobl and dairy queen freebies with my herijuana. Got ur ace all over in out and every medium. Thank you I'm owe my livelihood to you. I was struggling with a lot of bs. Matt