Subcools supersoil-no density

Ok so I have been growing for 6 years. Mainly in hydro using flood tables and pots filled with hydroton. Recently set up a 1800 watt soil operation after being told I can expect better terpenes and terpenoids from organic growing. While I do have to agree with that (yea a hydro grower *for life* says running the same strain in organic you will have better flavor and smell) But what I lost out on was any kind of density. I'm used to yielding between 22 and 26 oz of a 600 watt in hydro. First run in supersoil, I only got 13 oz. horrible IMO. Not to mention the 13 oz looked like 26. I am not dogging on super soil just trying to see if this is normal. The plants were healthy from day one. The nugs never seemed to get big nor dense. Water and teas only (compost and sprouted seed). Water filter through small boy with proper filter to catch chlorine and chloramine. Any helps would be dope.

Carolina Dream'n

lighting, air quality, strains...etc....
what i disagree with is taking someones advice on how much you should get, after 6 years in hydro you prolly have that dialed it. same with soil, it takes time to get dialed in.

would love to see some pics of the 1.5 lb yield of a 600w. Do you put the popcorn in the lbs too?

Nah no popcorn that goes into the trim pile. Usually not much popcorn anyway. Running SOG in hydro. 16 to 25 plants per tray. Been running same strain for 4 years. Gotten to know her very well lol. Running 4 plants per light in soil. Vegged for 3 weeks in 1 gallon pot (clone planted directly into) then another 3 weeks in a 3 gallon. Then into the 20 gallons with supersoil in bottom for anther 3 weeks. Then flowers for 9 weeks. Would prefer to get rid of 1 gallon station but veg works like an assembly line (pics soon to help understand)

What's good Jesus (that just sounds funny haha)
I was more asking if others has struggled with getting density in super soil. Enviroment in all my rooms is identical. 82 lights on 75 lights off. Hunidity is a constant 45 rh. Co2 at 1200 to 1400 ppm. No air cooled hoods. Solis tek ballast and bulb.

Carolina Dream'n said:

Ok so I have been growing for 6 years. Mainly in hydro using flood tables and pots filled with hydroton. Recently set up a 1800 watt soil operation after being told I can expect better terpenes and terpenoids from organic growing. While I do have to agree with that (yea a hydro grower *for life* says running the same strain in organic you will have better flavor and smell) But what I lost out on was any kind of density. I'm used to yielding between 22 and 26 oz of a 600 watt in hydro. First run in supersoil, I only got 13 oz. horrible IMO. Not to mention the 13 oz looked like 26. I am not dogging on super soil just trying to see if this is normal. The plants were healthy from day one. The nugs never seemed to get big nor dense. Water and teas only (compost and sprouted seed). Water filter through small boy with proper filter to catch chlorine and chloramine. Any helps would be dope.

Carolina Dream'n

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something has to be wrong there, 1800 watts and supersoil should get you some hard nugs, when you say they were healthy from day one.
I personally don't like the supersoil recipe, nor do I like the technique, i have very good luck using a mixed soil that is not layered and doesn't have blood meal, bone meal etc.
One thing I could mention, is maybe your bulbs were old?
I would take all things into account, and systematically look at all the variables as well.
Bulbs are my guess, but who knows for sure.
Same room as before? same ventilation?

First off let me thank everyone for the responses. Didn't think it would happen that fast. Grease monkey, the bulbs were brand new. Same with ballast. Not the exact same room, but sealed just as every other room. Also the room is perpetual. Haverest every 21 days. So can't account for all 1800 watts at once IMO. My hydro rooms are perputaul also. But every 12 days...

Grease monkey I would like to hear more about your soil as the two things u said u don't use I would rather not use also. They are waste from slaughter houses and breathing the vapor from them is unhealthy.

A lil bit more info on the room to help find discrepancies.
Soil-
Room size- 5x11x12
3 solis tek 1000 watt ballast (powered to 600s, upgrade to 1000s later)
3 bid daddy reflectors-open air
12k ideal air mini split
40 pint dehumidifier
Atmos d1 controller
20 lb tank and reg
Drip system feeds plants
Ocean Forest or vermifire soil for veg, super soil in flower
4 plants per light 20 gallon smart pots


Hydro
Room size 13x9x12
6 solis tek ballast (1000s powered down to 600)
6 big daddy reflectors open air
24k ideal air mini split
100 pint dehumid
Atmos d1 controller
6 3x3 trays
6 40 gallon Rez
Cyco nutrients or gh for veg and flower.
Pots filled with hydroton
16 or 25 per tray

Carolina Dream'n said:

Grease monkey I would like to hear more about your soil as the two things u said u don't use I would rather not use also. They are waste from slaughter houses and breathing the vapor from them is unhealthy.

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Sure, i'd be happy to, in fact, I have the time i'll share a couple recipes that I've used with success.
I like the mix to be roughly a 33% peat or coco, 33% worm castings or compost (I like a 50/50 mix of homemade worm castings and compost), and 33% aeration, for aeration I like volcanic rock, pumice, and biochar, don't have biochar account for more than 50% of your aeration.
the amendments I use I add one cup per cubic foot of soil mix.
one cup of each of the following
neem meal, crab meal, kelp meal, and I love insect frass. In lieu of insect frass I also have great results using rabbit manure, or alpaca manure.
also minerals, if you are planning on re-using your soil, i'd recommend a mixture of slow release minerals and normal water soluble ones. Greensand, azomite, glacial rock dust, basalt, rock phosphates.
two to four cups of minerals per cubic foot.
The other recipe is kind of a lazy way, but effective just the same
depending on how much soil you need, get four bags of premixed soil (organic) and add
one quarter cup of each of the listed amendments above. and add a bale of promix on top of it for your aeration and peat, a lil easier.
and even easier
Go buy vermifire, and add a quarter cup of the listed amendments and then add 25% compost or worm castings to the mix.

Your recipe seems very similar to one I have seen. I believe it was Clackamass Cootz recipe. You don't happen to follow Jeremy Rivera of buildasoil.com

Recipe from buildasoil.com

15 gallons Sphagnum Peat Moss
15 gallons Small Lava Rock
7.5 gallons Worm Castings
7.5 gallons Ancient Forest
6 cups Kelp Meal
3 cups Rock Dust
3 cups Neem Cake
3 cups Alfalfa Meal
3 cups Crab Meal
Compost for at least 4 weeks

Carolina Dream'n said:

Your recipe seems very similar to one I have seen. I believe it was Clackamass Cootz recipe. You don't happen to follow Jeremy Rivera of buildyourownsoil.com?

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it's very similar to many recipes, tried and proven. but no I don't follow Jeremy rivera.
Cootz recipe is a good one, much better than supersoil in my opinion.
The beauty of organics is once you understand that moderation and soil aging is crucial, it's fairly easy.

Carolina Dream'n said:

Recipe from buildyourownsoil:

15 gallons Sphagnum Peat Moss
15 gallons Small Lava Rock
7.5 gallons Worm Castings
7.5 gallons Ancient Forest
6 cups Kelp Meal
3 cups Rock Dust
3 cups Neem Cake
3 cups Alfalfa Meal
3 cups Crab Meal
Compost for at least 4 weeks

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What does he mean by ancient forest? is that a compost?
I personally don't like alfalfa meal, it's pretty potent, but I use it as a catalyst for my compost heap.
that recipe would work fine, i'd add biochar, oyster shell, greensand, and insect frass.

Awesome man thanks for all the information. I just got done reading "Teaming with Microbes" and "Teaming with Nutrients" by Jeff Lowenfells. More information in those two books together than all other books I have read together. It's made me more knowledgable in soil and in hydro. Definitely worth the money and time to read.

Is this your first time growing in soil? If so, my guess is this is a watering problem.

With hydro the roots get an insane amount of oxygen. It's difficult to replicate this in soil unless you're either a) using fabric pots, or b) using a sufficient amount of aeration bits in your medium.

You have to develop a feel for watering in soil. You can't leave the medium constantly sopping wet, but you can'teave it bone dry either. You have to find that sweet spot and do your best to maintain that. This is also strain dependent as well, and will fluctuate based upon what stage the plant is at in it's maturation.

I know you run perpetual, but you might need to veg those plants a little longer to hit your numbers and then train them once they're flipped to control your canopy.

Just some thoughts...

greasemonkeymann said:

What does he mean by ancient forest? is that a compost?
I personally don't like alfalfa meal, it's pretty potent, but I use it as a catalyst for my cost heap.

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Ancient Forrest is a composted humus made by general hydro. It was recommend by the local shop to use 50:50 AF to worn castings as my "compost"

st0wandgrow said:

Is this your first time growing in soil? If so, my guess is this is a watering problem.

With hydro the roots get an insane amount of oxygen. It's difficult to replicate this in soil unless you're either a) using fabric pots, or b) using a sufficient amount of aeration bits in your medium.

You have to develop a feel for watering in soil. You can't leave the medium constantly sopping wet, but you can'teave it bone dry either. You have to find that sweet spot and do your best to maintain that. This is also strain dependent as well, and will fluctuate based upon what stage the plant is at in it's maturation.

I know you run perpetual, but you might need to veg those plants a little longer to hit your numbers and then train them once they're flipped to control your canopy.

Just some thoughts...

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First time growing in soil in 6 years. And I didn't know shit 6 years ago when I tried so I barely count it. Using smart pots, and start scrogging 21 days before they go into flower. I can say with no problem the canopy was full as hell, it just never got dense or large. You might be onto something with the water, as that was the only thing I was unsure about. Each 20 gallon got 1 gallon of water every day one hour after lights came on. Is that a problem? The soil was never dry, but was never overly damp at any time.

Carolina Dream'n said:

First time growing in soil in 6 years. And I didn't know shit 6 years ago when I tried so I barely count it. Using smart pots, and start scrogging 21 days before they go into flower. I can say with no problem the canopy was full as hell, it just never got dense or large. You might be onto something with the water, as that was the only thing I was unsure about. Each 20 gallon got 1 gallon of water every day one hour after lights came on. Is that a problem? The soil was never dry, but was never overly damp at any time.

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That doesn't seem like an obscene amount of water, but doing that every day could be a problem. Try doing a 1 gallon watering one day, then just a light watering the next day to keep the top layer of soil moist. Alternate between heavy and light waterings and see if that helps.

I might have missed this above, but what are you using for aeration bits, and what percentage of your base did that account for?

st0wandgrow said:

That doesn't seem like an obscene amount of water, but doing that every day could be a problem. Try doing a 1 gallon watering one day, then just a light watering the next day to keep the top layer of soil moist. Alternate between heavy and light waterings and see if that helps.

I might have missed this above, but what are you using for aeration bits, and what percentage of your base did that account for?

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Unfortunately I didn't mix my own soil this time. We followed subs recipe to a t. Using roots organic soil. So I can't give you an exact measurement. But from what I can tell the roots has better drainage than OF and vermifire. Those are the only soils I have to compare to it. Pumice and perlite are what are used for airation.