Spider Mites Help

Terry385 said:

Spinosad killed them for me
" be sure to re-treat in 7-10 when remaining eggs hatch."
i thought repeat 3 days and for how long ?
don't the mites hatch daily

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ButchyBoy said:

I giggled ^^^^^^ Thanks!

Have you seen the lavender oil actually kill them? I ask because everything I read say's it is a repellent but nothing about killing any insect!

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ButchyBoy said:

I looked up that Forbid F4 and I don't like what the warnings say about it.

It say's:

Do not use on vegetable gardens
Do not use on plants intended for use as feed or forage
Not for use in commercial greenhouses or nurseries, or on fruit or nut trees

If on skin or clothing:
Take off contaminated clothing
Rinse skin immediately with plenty of water for 15 to 20 minutes
Call poison control center or doctor for treatment advice

Also say's Do not apply more than 3 times per season.

http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld6P7000.pdf




I don't think I would want that on my plant's no matter how well it works.

Spinosad on the other hand is use to treat head lice on humans and fleas on dogs and cats. The only real danger to using it is getting it in your eye's or mouth. It is rated slightly toxic.

I am ok with multiple applications to get rid of a pest versus wearing a respirator and hazmat suit to apply something that I would never want one of my patients or myself smoking. Besides, you can spray it as close as 2 weeks prior to harvest because we all know spider mites can show up at any time during the grow, not just in the veg period.

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reapersfamiliar said:

i read what is in those specifically for mites "mitey wash"..glycerin and peppermint oil.

so that's soap, water and peppermint oil.

made it myself; had the ingredients at home.

problem solved.

cost me $0.

be sure to re-treat in 7-10 when remaining eggs hatch.[/QUO

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Dr. Who said:

Hmm, Well then. I say you didn't actually look up shit!

You looked at the product label. That does NOT contain actual toxic effects. It contains WARNINGS to be printed at the whim of the FEDERAL government that had LITTLE to do with actual research done on the actual contents of the bottle.
This is not a systemic pesticide!
It is an organic acid that is translaminar (that means it goes on the leaf and travels from the leaf surface to the bottom of the leaf).
The acid blocks the lipid fat absorbed by and used buy the bug. It dries them out them at all stages of growth,,even eggs!
It is listed by the Federal government as on the CAUTION list. NO KNOWN HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HUMANS!

As part of FEDERAL regulations. The use of cover clothing and what to do with it is a STANDARD list from CAUTION level to WARNING level. The list tells you to use respirators when you get to the DANGER level and above.
It is used on FRUIT and VEGGIES at concentrations HIGHER then in FORBID (12 fl oz per acre per season) by the exact SAME chemical (OBERON 2SC is the brand name for this one) in a HIGHER per acre per season (48 fl oz per acre per season) !
The reason your NOT to use FORBID on food crops is that it's not at the right mix concentration in that form (It's not BOTTLED for it! Federal law says you must use what it's bottled for or your in violation of Federal law) !!!

So then ButchyBoy.......Your using LESS spiromesifen (Forbid 4F) on your MM plant,,,,drum roll,,,,THEN ON THE FOODS YOU EAT!

If you are going to research actual toxic effects of FORBID 4 F.
YOU NEED TO LOOK THAT UP!
NOT the generic Federally MANDATED label!!!! That tells you how to USE it under Federal guide lines!

So then, Let me list RESULTS from a study by CORNELL UNIVERSITY on Toxic reaction for the State of N.Y. for the "license" of use in that state!

READ THIS and LEARN THE TRUTH!

OBERON 2SC
:
Neither the active ingredient spiromesifen nor the formulated product Oberon 2SC Insecticide/Miticide was very acutely toxic to laboratory animals by the oral, dermal or inhalation routes of exposure. In addition, neither the active ingredient nor the formulated product was irritating to the eyes or skin (tested on rabbits). Whereas the Oberon 2SC product was not a skin sensitizer, the active ingredient showed skin sensitizing properties (tested on
guinea pigs). Spiromesifen caused some toxicity in chronic feeding studies in laboratory animals.

In a one-year dog feeding study, an increase in alkaline phosphatase activity and liver histopathological effects were observed at doses of 109 and 117 milligrams per kilogram body weight per day (mg/kg/day) in males and females, respectively. The respective no-observed-effect levels (NOELs) were 11.5 and 10.8 mg/kg/day. In a chronic rat feeding study, histopathological effects on the lungs including inflammatory lesions were observed in males at a dose of 40 mg/kg/day. In females, thyroid effects (increase in thyroid stimulating hormone and colloidal alteration of the thyroid gland) and histopathological changes in the uterus occurred at adose of 53.5 mg/kg/day. The reported NOELs were 14.8 and 19.5 mg/kg/day for males and females, respectively.

In a chronic feeding study in mice, enlargement of the adrenal gland in males and microscopic changes in the adrenal gland and pancreas in both sexes were observed at doses of 22 mg/kg/day (males) and 30 mg/kg/day (females); the respective NOELs were 3.3 and 3.8 mg/kg/day. Spiromesifen did not cause developmental toxicity either in the offspring of pregnant rats or pregnant rabbits administered this chemical during organogenesis at the highest doses tested, which were 500 and 250 mg/kg/day, respectively. Maternal toxicity for both rats and rabbits, however, was observed in these studies. This toxicity, which was characterized by decreased body weight gain and food consumption in both studies, occurred at doses of 70 and 35 mg/kg/day for rats and rabbits, respectively. The respective NOELs were 10 and 5 mg/kg/day. In a rat multigeneration reproduction study, aside from a decrease in rat pup body weight gain at a dose of 13.2 mg/kg/day with a NOEL of 4.6 mg/kg/day, no reproductive effects were observed at the highest doses tested, which were 37 and 64 mg/kg/day for males and females, respectively. Parental toxicity which was characterized by a decrease in growing ovarian follicles in females and a decrease in spleen weights in both sexes was observed at doses of 8.8 mg/kg/day (males) and 14.2 mg/kg/day (females). The respective NOELs were 2.2 and 3.8 mg/kg/day. The USEPA Office of Pesticide Programs calculated anoral reference dose (RfD) for spiromesifen of 0.022 mg/kg/day, based on the NOEL of 2.2 mg/kg/day in the rat multigeneration reproduction study and an uncertainty factor of 100. This RfD value has not yet been adopted by the USEPA Integrated Risk Information System (IRIS).

Spiromesifen did not cause oncogenic effects in rats and mice during chronic feeding/oncogenicity studies. In addition, spiromesifen gave negative results in several genotoxicity studies. Consequently, the USEPA classified this chemical as “not likely to be carcinogenic to humans.”

The USEPA established tolerances for spiromesifen residues in or on field corn (forage, grain and stover) at 0.02 parts per million (ppm), 3.0 ppm and 5.0 ppm, respectively; vegetables (brassica head and stem, brassica leafy greens, cucurbit, fruiting, leafy greens, tuberous and corm) at (2.0 ppm, 12.0 ppm, 0.1 ppm, 0.3 ppm, 12.0 ppm and 0.02 ppm, respectively) and strawberries at 2.0 ppm. The chronic populationadjusted dose (cPAD) for spiromesifen is 0.022mg/kg/day and has the same basis as the RfD. The USEPA estimated that chronic dietary exposure to spiromesifen residues would be 29% of the cPAD for the general U.S. population; 15% for infants under one year of age; 35% for children one to two years old; and 37% for children three to five years old. This chronic exposure analysisis based on the conservative assumptions that 100% of the crops would be treated and that most of
the treated crops have spiromesifen residues at their respective tolerance levels.

The USEPA conducted a risk assessment for inhalation exposure of agricultural workers to spiromesifen. Risk from dermal exposure was not assessed since there was no systemic or localized (skin) toxicity at the highest dose tested (1,000 mg/kg/day) in a 28-day dermal toxicity study in rats and “[N]o developmental toxicity concerns were identified” that could be used to evaluate short-term exposures. For mixer/loaders (aerial application), the inhalation margin of exposure (MOE) was 4,310. For mixer/loader/applicators involved in high-pressure hand spraying and backpack spraying, the estimated inhalation MOEs ranged from 10,000 to 1,000,000, respectively. For applicators involved either in aerial or ground boom application, the estimated inhalation MOEs were 75,400 and 39,800, respectively. The NOEL used for estimating all of the above-noted MOEs was 21.1 mg/kg/day (the highest dose tested) from a 30- day rat inhalation toxicity study. Generally, the USEPA considers MOEs of 100-fold or greater
to provide adequate worker protection. No post-application exposure risk assessment was conducted since inhalation exposure is considered negligible in a post-application outdoor setting.

The available information on spiromesifen and Forbid 4F Ornamental Insecticide/Miticide indicates that neither
the active ingredient nor the formulated product was very acutely toxic in laboratory animal studies. Furthermore, spiromesifen did not demonstrate oncogenic, genotoxic or developmental toxicity (with the exception of reduced pup body weight gains in the rat multigeneration reproduction study) properties. Although data from chronic and reproduction toxicity studies showed that this chemical has the potential to cause some toxicity, the estimated
exposures of workers from use of the Forbid 4F product are not expected to pose significant health risks. Given the above, we do not object to the registration of Forbid 4F Ornamental Insecticide/Miticide on the basis of direct human risks.

Now then, wasn't that informative! Do you understand that the amounts given that showed ANY toxic result (how ever minor) would be in amounts that would be measured buy using the actual concentrate to consume? The amount of Forbid concentrate to a gallon of water is 8 drops for actual application rates.

SO then Butchy,,,,
The next time you make comment conjecture on the use of a product. I suggest you research the PRODUCT and NOT the LABEL!!!

Use the Forbid 4F and CURE your problem!

I get tired of bone heads and know it all's NOT reading the science!

SORRY folks,,,,,I'm ticked off!

DOC

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Terry385 said:

DOC
is that a one time spray " Forbid 4F........BOOM DONE! "

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GhostBud420 said:

I just mix a batch of soap water and spray the undersides when I have mites. The soap dries the mites out as they are a soft body insect. I think it basically takes a protective layer of oil off their body and slowly die. Eggs will hatch every 3 days so I spray every 3rd or 4th day for about 2 weeks. This should eliminate any problems.

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Dr. Who said:

Hmm, Well then. I say you didn't actually look up shit!

You looked at the product label. That does NOT contain actual toxic effects. It contains WARNINGS to be printed at the whim of the FEDERAL government that had LITTLE to do with actual research done on the actual contents of the bottle.
This is not a systemic pesticide!
It is an organic acid that is translaminar (that means it goes on the leaf and travels from the leaf surface to the bottom of the leaf).
The acid blocks the lipid fat absorbed by and used buy the bug. It dries them out them at all stages of growth,,even eggs!
It is listed by the Federal government as on the CAUTION list. NO KNOWN HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HUMANS!

As part of FEDERAL regulations. The use of cover clothing and what to do with it is a STANDARD list from CAUTION level to WARNING level. The list tells you to use respirators when you get to the DANGER level and above.
It is used on FRUIT and VEGGIES at concentrations HIGHER then in FORBID (12 fl oz per acre per season) by the exact SAME chemical (OBERON 2SC is the brand name for this one) in a HIGHER per acre per season (48 fl oz per acre per season) !
The reason your NOT to use FORBID on food crops is that it's not at the right mix concentration in that form (It's not BOTTLED for it! Federal law says you must use what it's bottled for or your in violation of Federal law) !!!

So then ButchyBoy.......Your using LESS spiromesifen (Forbid 4F) on your MM plant,,,,drum roll,,,,THEN ON THE FOODS YOU EAT!

If you are going to research actual toxic effects of FORBID 4 F.
YOU NEED TO LOOK THAT UP!
NOT the generic Federally MANDATED label!!!! That tells you how to USE it under Federal guide lines!

So then, Let me list RESULTS from a study by CORNELL UNIVERSITY on Toxic reaction for the State of N.Y. for the "license" of use in that state!

READ THIS and LEARN THE TRUTH!

OBERON 2SC
:
Neither the active ingredient spiromesifen nor the formulated product Oberon 2SC Insecticide/Miticide was very acutely toxic to laboratory animals by the oral, dermal or inhalation routes of exposure. In addition, neither the active ingredient nor the formulated product was irritating to the eyes or skin (tested on rabbits). Whereas the Oberon 2SC product was not a skin sensitizer, the active ingredient showed skin sensitizing properties (tested on
guinea pigs). Spiromesifen caused some toxicity in chronic feeding studies in laboratory animals.

In a one-year dog feeding study, an increase in alkaline phosphatase activity and liver histopathological effects were observed at doses of 109 and 117 milligrams per kilogram body weight per day (mg/kg/day) in males and females, respectively. The respective no-observed-effect levels (NOELs) were 11.5 and 10.8 mg/kg/day. In a chronic rat feeding study, histopathological effects on the lungs including inflammatory lesions were observed in males at a dose of 40 mg/kg/day. In females, thyroid effects (increase in thyroid stimulating hormone and colloidal alteration of the thyroid gland) and histopathological changes in the uterus occurred at adose of 53.5 mg/kg/day. The reported NOELs were 14.8 and 19.5 mg/kg/day for males and females, respectively.

In a chronic feeding study in mice, enlargement of the adrenal gland in males and microscopic changes in the adrenal gland and pancreas in both sexes were observed at doses of 22 mg/kg/day (males) and 30 mg/kg/day (females); the respective NOELs were 3.3 and 3.8 mg/kg/day. Spiromesifen did not cause developmental toxicity either in the offspring of pregnant rats or pregnant rabbits administered this chemical during organogenesis at the highest doses tested, which were 500 and 250 mg/kg/day, respectively. Maternal toxicity for both rats and rabbits, however, was observed in these studies. This toxicity, which was characterized by decreased body weight gain and food consumption in both studies, occurred at doses of 70 and 35 mg/kg/day for rats and rabbits, respectively. The respective NOELs were 10 and 5 mg/kg/day. In a rat multigeneration reproduction study, aside from a decrease in rat pup body weight gain at a dose of 13.2 mg/kg/day with a NOEL of 4.6 mg/kg/day, no reproductive effects were observed at the highest doses tested, which were 37 and 64 mg/kg/day for males and females, respectively. Parental toxicity which was characterized by a decrease in growing ovarian follicles in females and a decrease in spleen weights in both sexes was observed at doses of 8.8 mg/kg/day (males) and 14.2 mg/kg/day (females). The respective NOELs were 2.2 and 3.8 mg/kg/day. The USEPA Office of Pesticide Programs calculated anoral reference dose (RfD) for spiromesifen of 0.022 mg/kg/day, based on the NOEL of 2.2 mg/kg/day in the rat multigeneration reproduction study and an uncertainty factor of 100. This RfD value has not yet been adopted by the USEPA Integrated Risk Information System (IRIS).

Spiromesifen did not cause oncogenic effects in rats and mice during chronic feeding/oncogenicity studies. In addition, spiromesifen gave negative results in several genotoxicity studies. Consequently, the USEPA classified this chemical as “not likely to be carcinogenic to humans.”

The USEPA established tolerances for spiromesifen residues in or on field corn (forage, grain and stover) at 0.02 parts per million (ppm), 3.0 ppm and 5.0 ppm, respectively; vegetables (brassica head and stem, brassica leafy greens, cucurbit, fruiting, leafy greens, tuberous and corm) at (2.0 ppm, 12.0 ppm, 0.1 ppm, 0.3 ppm, 12.0 ppm and 0.02 ppm, respectively) and strawberries at 2.0 ppm. The chronic populationadjusted dose (cPAD) for spiromesifen is 0.022mg/kg/day and has the same basis as the RfD. The USEPA estimated that chronic dietary exposure to spiromesifen residues would be 29% of the cPAD for the general U.S. population; 15% for infants under one year of age; 35% for children one to two years old; and 37% for children three to five years old. This chronic exposure analysisis based on the conservative assumptions that 100% of the crops would be treated and that most of
the treated crops have spiromesifen residues at their respective tolerance levels.

The USEPA conducted a risk assessment for inhalation exposure of agricultural workers to spiromesifen. Risk from dermal exposure was not assessed since there was no systemic or localized (skin) toxicity at the highest dose tested (1,000 mg/kg/day) in a 28-day dermal toxicity study in rats and “[N]o developmental toxicity concerns were identified” that could be used to evaluate short-term exposures. For mixer/loaders (aerial application), the inhalation margin of exposure (MOE) was 4,310. For mixer/loader/applicators involved in high-pressure hand spraying and backpack spraying, the estimated inhalation MOEs ranged from 10,000 to 1,000,000, respectively. For applicators involved either in aerial or ground boom application, the estimated inhalation MOEs were 75,400 and 39,800, respectively. The NOEL used for estimating all of the above-noted MOEs was 21.1 mg/kg/day (the highest dose tested) from a 30- day rat inhalation toxicity study. Generally, the USEPA considers MOEs of 100-fold or greater
to provide adequate worker protection. No post-application exposure risk assessment was conducted since inhalation exposure is considered negligible in a post-application outdoor setting.

The available information on spiromesifen and Forbid 4F Ornamental Insecticide/Miticide indicates that neither
the active ingredient nor the formulated product was very acutely toxic in laboratory animal studies. Furthermore, spiromesifen did not demonstrate oncogenic, genotoxic or developmental toxicity (with the exception of reduced pup body weight gains in the rat multigeneration reproduction study) properties. Although data from chronic and reproduction toxicity studies showed that this chemical has the potential to cause some toxicity, the estimated
exposures of workers from use of the Forbid 4F product are not expected to pose significant health risks. Given the above, we do not object to the registration of Forbid 4F Ornamental Insecticide/Miticide on the basis of direct human risks.

Now then, wasn't that informative! Do you understand that the amounts given that showed ANY toxic result (how ever minor) would be in amounts that would be measured buy using the actual concentrate to consume? The amount of Forbid concentrate to a gallon of water is 8 drops for actual application rates.

SO then Butchy,,,,
The next time you make comment conjecture on the use of a product. I suggest you research the PRODUCT and NOT the LABEL!!!

Use the Forbid 4F and CURE your problem!

I get tired of bone heads and know it all's NOT reading the science!

SORRY folks,,,,,I'm ticked off!

DOC

Click to expand...

ButchyBoy said:

Thanks for the info there big guy!!!! A warning is all I need! I still will not use it on anything I or anyone else will be smoking. I will however give the lavender oil a try.

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Dr. Who said:

Cool Butchy, That's a choice we all have to make.
I RESPECT yours.......

BTW, I have not had any reinfestation in years. I attribute a lot of that to keeping my grows clean and the building access design,,,,,, and only bringing in new strains by seed. I continue good strains by cloning (as we all do).
Once in a great while, i do take a cutting from a friend. That is then green cure dipped and placed in isolation for 14 days.

When used properly. It does work with a single use.

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BAMS said:

+1 the lavender idea, I might mix up a bottle just to have on hand....like I said in my first post on this thread is that I have only ever had 1 mite outbreak since I put my prevention system in place. My system may be the reason why I have not had an outbreak since, or could be other reasons, but hell I like the idea of the lavender oil spray. I use lavender (not the oil) in cooking and for aroma therapy, love the smell and the flavour

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