Small Hydro Issue... or not?

grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
Hey guys!!!

Thanks in advance for everyone being so helpful on this forum.

I'm running my first DWC Hydro project, and I'm noticing a little pale coloration on my lower growth, and a couple brown spots on one of the 6 plants. It's pretty small and it doesn't look too bad to me, but I really want to learn all the intricacies of plant nutrition.

From all the guides I've read, it looks like a Calcium, Magnesium, or Manganese deficiency to me, or maybe even just too much PH fluctuation. Apparently my water sucks cause 10 gallons needed 6.5 TABLESPOONS of General Hydro PH Down (orange color) to get to 5.5.

Plants are Nirvana Lemon OG Haze Auto, tap water, GH Flora Trio (following schedule at half strength). Keeping PH between 5.2 and about 7. Just can't get over to the grow every day to adjust the PH. Just a couple of air pumps, 2 air stones, and 10 gallons in each res.

Here's a few pics... anyone wanna take a crack at it to school me?

20151119_223848.jpg 20151119_214839.jpg logh_11_24_2_15.jpg



Thanks again!
 
Terry385

Terry385

Well-Known Member
you want the ph at 5.8 / 6.0 how the roots look...got to suck changing res.weekly..think you can use a bigger air pump and more stones need lot of bubbles is that tote lid light proof..
i use ro water and add calmag never used tap water with dwc this air pump with 6 4" stones http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Commercial-Air-Pump---951-GPH
2 stones in each 5 gal. bucket dwc plants get huge fast with large root ball
ph.png
Good Luck With First D.W.C ( took me almost a year to get it right had to beat root rot )
 
grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
Terry385 said:
you want the ph at 5.8 / 6.0 how the roots look...got to suck changing res.weekly..think you can use a bigger air pump and more stones need lot of bubbles is that tote lid light proof..
i use ro water and add calmag never used tap water with dwc this air pump with 6 4" stones http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Commercial-Air-Pump---951-GPH
2 stones in each 5 gal. bucket dwc plants get huge fast with large root ball
View attachment 3550396
Good Luck With First D.W.C ( took me almost a year to get it right had to beat root rot )
Click to expand...
Using city tap with 20ml of Botanicare Hydroguard per tub. I do have a huge bottle of CaliMagic I can add to the reservoir.

Not 100% sure that I have all the air I need. I'm using 10 gallons per tub (which are Bella 18 gallon totes from Menards). The tub and lid are really pretty damn light proof I think.

The air pumps and stones are:

2 of EcoPlus 728360 3W 2 Outlet Eco Air Pump, 126 GPH
$14.79/ea.

4 of Hydrofarm ASCL Large Active Aqua Air Stone Cylinder
$6.99/ea.

PENN PLAX Standard Airline Tubing Air Pump Accessories, 25-Feet
$4.45

The whole system was designed off the Bubbleponics tutorial on www.growweedeasy.com.

I think I'll add a little CalMag (1/4 to 1/2 strength) when I change the water tomorrow. Any way to keep the PH from jumping so damn high every day? I don't really have time to add PH Down every day. I'm barely even rooted into the water yet...

20151119_214926.jpg 20151119_224040.jpg 20151119_214935.jpg

THANKS GUYS!
 
Terry385

Terry385

Well-Known Member
roots look nice... in pic one can see light going thew lid need to cover to be safe
ph jump don't know i know mine it go's from 5.8 to 6.2 over 7 days is fine
i red your post you washed every thing good at start of grow...
 
grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
Terry385 said:
roots look nice... in pic one can see light going thew lid need to cover to be safe
ph jump don't know i know mine it go's from 5.8 to 6.2 over 7 days is fine
i red your post you washed every thing good at start of grow...
Click to expand...
Yeah I just noticed the light too, lol! I thought the lids would be thick enough to not allow light to penetrate. That might be my PH problem.. I assume some kind of tape on the lids? Man I really don't want to try to do that with the plants in it... Hmm. Maybe I'll think of something when this Bubblelicious wears off...

Edit: Aluminum foil work?
 
Last edited:
Terry385

Terry385

Well-Known Member
grandvapor said:
Yeah I just noticed the light too, lol! I thought the lids would be thick enough to not allow light to penetrate. That might be my PH problem.. I assume some kind of tape on the lids? Man I really don't want to try to do that with the plants in it... Hmm. Maybe I'll think of something when this Bubblelicious wears off...
Click to expand...
got me wonder now...about ph sitting here hitting bubba
someone that use's totes may chime in for something to use as cover without having to buy something you can see paper plate works lol
 
grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
Terry385 said:
got me wonder now...about ph sitting here hitting bubba
someone that use's totes may chime in for something to use as cover without having to buy something you can see paper plate works lol
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess it doesn't have to be pretty at all, could be a towel. I just love the way it looks all neat and engineered looking, hehe.
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
From the leaf picture it looks like there's a residue on the leaf. Whitish. Were you spraying stuff on them?
 
grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
Alienwidow said:
From the leaf picture it looks like there's a residue on the leaf. Whitish. Were you spraying stuff on them?
Click to expand...
I saw the same thing. Maybe I accidentally just dripped some undiluted liquid nutrient on it and it burned just those spots? Take a look at the bottom growth today though... the resolution sucks, but it looks like the plant front and center has a lot of pale spotting at the very bottom. Maybe it's getting ready to start flowering and drop those leaves?

logh_11_25_1_15.jpg
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
grandvapor said:
Hey guys!!!

Thanks in advance for everyone being so helpful on this forum.

I'm running my first DWC Hydro project, and I'm noticing a little pale coloration on my lower growth, and a couple brown spots on one of the 6 plants. It's pretty small and it doesn't look too bad to me, but I really want to learn all the intricacies of plant nutrition.

From all the guides I've read, it looks like a Calcium, Magnesium, or Manganese deficiency to me, or maybe even just too much PH fluctuation. Apparently my water sucks cause 10 gallons needed 6.5 TABLESPOONS of General Hydro PH Down (orange color) to get to 5.5.

Plants are Nirvana Lemon OG Haze Auto, tap water, GH Flora Trio (following schedule at half strength). Keeping PH between 5.2 and about 7. Just can't get over to the grow every day to adjust the PH. Just a couple of air pumps, 2 air stones, and 10 gallons in each res.

Here's a few pics... anyone wanna take a crack at it to school me?

View attachment 3550389 View attachment 3550385 View attachment 3550387



Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Buy a good EC/PPM meter. Don't try hydro without one and without knowing to use it.
 
grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
hotrodharley said:
Buy a good EC/PPM meter. Don't try hydro without one and without knowing to use it.
Click to expand...
I didn't intend to use one. I was planning to try to do it all visually and with only a PH meter. I have read so many people say that knowing your PPM is not important compared to how your plants look.

But, alas, I'm always ready to learn new and improved ways of doing well. My first coco grow went without a single problem, and the guy at the hydro shop said that if you can do coco, you can do hydro... so... here I am. :)

Going to go see the plants in person tonight and snap some pics. Probably do a reservoir change and note the PH of the current water too (unless the water looks/smells good still).

Thanks for all the information and responses. Will keep you updated as to what happens.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
grandvapor said:
I didn't intend to use one. I was planning to try to do it all visually and with only a PH meter. I have read so many people say that knowing your PPM is not important compared to how your plants look.

But, alas, I'm always ready to learn new and improved ways of doing well. My first coco grow went without a single problem, and the guy at the hydro shop said that if you can do coco, you can do hydro... so... here I am. :)

Going to go see the plants in person tonight and snap some pics. Probably do a reservoir change and note the PH of the current water too (unless the water looks/smells good still).

Thanks for all the information and responses. Will keep you updated as to what happens.
Click to expand...
Dude, I felt the same way. Until one night in a creative mood I made a 5-gallon DWC. Immediate learning curve and I have grown pot indoors and out for a very longtime. Bought a (here we go from the Blue Lb freaks) Hanna Primo 4 with the calibration solutions ordered at the same time. Started the next plant after the experiment went away (I'm a retired RN and know things die or should so wasted no more time or money) I started a seedling at 150PPM and gradually raised the EC until the plant actually responded. And boy howdy did she respond. I kept at it raising the EC until I noticed a slight tip blanch and just left it there. Changed the res weekly until the root ball was so huge I was scared I would have to trim it to get it back in and then just monitored it. Adjusted the pH if and when needed. The roots were so monstrous that it could take little water and needed it frequently at the end so screw a 5-gallon next time.

The next one I did was a White Widow Auto (before anyone did autos hardly and it was a freebie). Nobody told me or the WWA that autos don't like nutes or DWC supposedly. That bitch got huge. There's pics on here somewhere of it. By starting low EC and raising until she responded. Raised it gradually and stopped when the tip blanch showed.
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
grandvapor said:
I didn't intend to use one. I was planning to try to do it all visually and with only a PH meter. I have read so many people say that knowing your PPM is not important compared to how your plants look.

But, alas, I'm always ready to learn new and improved ways of doing well. My first coco grow went without a single problem, and the guy at the hydro shop said that if you can do coco, you can do hydro... so... here I am. :)

Going to go see the plants in person tonight and snap some pics. Probably do a reservoir change and note the PH of the current water too (unless the water looks/smells good still).

Thanks for all the information and responses. Will keep you updated as to what happens.
Click to expand...
Ya you need a ppm meter like a carpenter needs a tape measure. Its the tool for the job.

One more question may have been asked already, your nets arent sitting IN the water at all are they? I ask because if they are touching that water at all the water will wick up into them and drown the plant by soaking the starter cube. This causes droop.
 
grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
Alienwidow said:
Ya you need a ppm meter like a carpenter needs a tape measure. Its the tool for the job.

One more question may have been asked already, your nets arent sitting IN the water at all are they? I ask because if they are touching that water at all the water will wick up into them and drown the plant by soaking the starter cube. This causes droop.
Click to expand...
They were sitting barely in water when I first filled it with 12 gallons. On the first reservoir change I realized they would droop and rot if I left it that full so I switched to 10 gallons, which appears to leave a couple inches beneath the net pots.

I might even be able to get away with 8 gallons, but I figured the more water, the longer it takes to get hot with the lamps on. It's a small tent, and under 600 watts temperature control is tricky, even with a 440 cfm fan and 6" ducting from the hood.

Ok you all convinced me... I've been keeping meticulous notes for this grow, so I might as well add PPM to the notes as well. I think a cheapy eBay meter will be under 20 bucks. My eBay PH meter for 10 bucks works great so far, and was calibrated spot on from the factory.

I'll just slowly ramp up nutes, note the EC/PPM in my journal, and then back off once the tips show burn. Sounds easy enough.

So... to recap the goals here:
1.) Cover the lid better for more protection from light
2.) Buy a PPM meter and keep excellent notes
3.) Maybe go down to 8 gallons of water per tub?

Edit: I also talked to a few people on the phone about GH RapidStart root builder and for $30 bucks, I had to order it (275ml). The videos GH made on YouTube showing the little root hairs is amazing looking. Will be here in a couple days.

Thanks again guys, you're super-dee-duper helpful. Almost like having friends, lol.
 
grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
hotrodharley said:
Dude, I felt the same way. Until one night in a creative mood I made a 5-gallon DWC. Immediate learning curve and I have grown pot indoors and out for a very longtime. Bought a (here we go from the Blue Lb freaks) Hanna Primo 4 with the calibration solutions ordered at the same time. Started the next plant after the experiment went away (I'm a retired RN and know things die or should so wasted no more time or money) I started a seedling at 150PPM and gradually raised the EC until the plant actually responded. And boy howdy did she respond. I kept at it raising the EC until I noticed a slight tip blanch and just left it there. Changed the res weekly until the root ball was so huge I was scared I would have to trim it to get it back in and then just monitored it. Adjusted the pH if and when needed. The roots were so monstrous that it could take little water and needed it frequently at the end so screw a 5-gallon next time.

The next one I did was a White Widow Auto (before anyone did autos hardly and it was a freebie). Nobody told me or the WWA that autos don't like nutes or DWC supposedly. That bitch got huge. There's pics on here somewhere of it. By starting low EC and raising until she responded. Raised it gradually and stopped when the tip blanch showed.
Click to expand...
With PPM, you measure your water's PPM out of the tap first, and basically use that as your "zero" point when adding nutes right? So, if you water is 800PPM from the faucet, and you want to add 200PPM of nutes, you just stop adding at 1000PPM?

I think I understand that correctly.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
grandvapor said:
With PPM, you measure your water's PPM out of the tap first, and basically use that as your "zero" point when adding nutes right? So, if you water is 800PPM from the faucet, and you want to add 200PPM of nutes, you just stop adding at 1000PPM?

I think I understand that correctly.
Click to expand...
If your water is 800 PPM I suggest using RO water or at least diluting your tap water with RO. You add your starting PPM to your nutes for a total which is TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) which includes your water PPM. EC is slightly different but is correlated. You need to keep an eye on your TDS as well as your EC. Do this by using water with little to no EC such as RO to start with. Now will come a bunch telling you to screw RO but that is my experience and opinion. I would rather buy and add cal/mag than count on what is in tapwater.
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
grandvapor said:
They were sitting barely in water when I first filled it with 12 gallons. On the first reservoir change I realized they would droop and rot if I left it that full so I switched to 10 gallons, which appears to leave a couple inches beneath the net pots.

I might even be able to get away with 8 gallons, but I figured the more water, the longer it takes to get hot with the lamps on. It's a small tent, and under 600 watts temperature control is tricky, even with a 440 cfm fan and 6" ducting from the hood.

Ok you all convinced me... I've been keeping meticulous notes for this grow, so I might as well add PPM to the notes as well. I think a cheapy eBay meter will be under 20 bucks. My eBay PH meter for 10 bucks works great so far, and was calibrated spot on from the factory.

I'll just slowly ramp up nutes, note the EC/PPM in my journal, and then back off once the tips show burn. Sounds easy enough.

So... to recap the goals here:
1.) Cover the lid better for more protection from light
2.) Buy a PPM meter and keep excellent notes
3.) Maybe go down to 8 gallons of water per tub?

Edit: I also talked to a few people on the phone about GH RapidStart root builder and for $30 bucks, I had to order it (275ml). The videos GH made on YouTube showing the little root hairs is amazing looking. Will be here in a couple days.

Thanks again guys, you're super-dee-duper helpful. Almost like having friends, lol.
Click to expand...
:lol: we get luck every now and then. With the whole counting the gallons thing your doing, just make the water go to a half inch below the nets. No wicking and the roots will have the best access to the solution. Also someone once told me to change my rez when the plants had consumed it once. Well in the begining the plants dont drink much of it up so i figured id try waiting for a bit. And yup, no problems. Saved a bit of money on dumping out food too. Im not saying wait forever but i think i ran....well too long to mention and id rather not. But my sog rez plants did just as good as my 5 gal plants and well ok ill tell ya....i only changed out their huge rez once. Im not reccomending that but its just some food for thought. Also if your gettimg the cheapo ppm meter, please get the calibration solution. They're notorious for going out of whack. Ph meters are usually way more trustworthy than a ppm meter.
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
grandvapor said:
With PPM, you measure your water's PPM out of the tap first, and basically use that as your "zero" point when adding nutes right? So, if you water is 800PPM from the faucet, and you want to add 200PPM of nutes, you just stop adding at 1000PPM?

I think I understand that correctly.
Click to expand...
Ya, fill the bucket, take ppm, itll probably be around 150-200, then add nutes. For those guys id bring it up to maybe 350 for now. In a week 450 kinda thing. 1000ppm is lots for any huge plant so just keep that in mind. Also a calmag supplement is always a good thing to have, most common deficiencys are cal, and mag.
 
grandvapor

grandvapor

Active Member
Alienwidow said:
Ya, fill the bucket, take ppm, itll probably be around 150-200, then add nutes. For those guys id bring it up to maybe 350 for now. In a week 450 kinda thing. 1000ppm is lots for any huge plant so just keep that in mind. Also a calmag supplement is always a good thing to have, most common deficiencys are cal, and mag.
Click to expand...
Right on guys. Thanks so much.

I just ordered a cheapo PPM meter off eBay. It claims to be +/-2% accuracy, which if true, is not too bad. It was 6 dollars so if it sucks I'll buy a better one. Also measures temperature, which I've been very curious about.
 
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