Short path distillation vs butane extraction or QWET?

thump easy

Well-Known Member
Here is my set up for simple ultra short path distillation. This is set is basic however it works very well. Be cautious of any online retailer of short path kits. I recently sent one an example of this video - Imhad seen an online complaint about their systems not working and their reponse online to,their customer was to double check the themometer well vacuum grease! This is not ehat prevents a pull down under 100 microns lolz.

This major online retailer of "short path" distillaiton equipment has several major tech errors in their system and seems to have just thrown together a kit from a quick read of Wikipedia about short path distillation. This guy responded that I had simply installed my pirani sensor in the wrong place to achieve ¾ of a micro vacuum! Lolz, he asserted that the pressure sensor must be inside the boiling flask for the readings to be meaningful!!! He then went on to inform me from his business email account that, "... your readings are meaningless because you placed the vacuum sensor after the gas has condensed."

Well, I did not bother asking the guy to try to come up with any additional bullshit to try to explain how on Earth anyone can possibly position a vacuum sensor inside the boiling flask, but my point is that this guy posts all over the internet about distillation but ignores technical flaws in the sytems he sells, and clearly does not sell the correct vscuum system components (red rubber hose is in his kits which is contraindicated for molecular distillation and which is whynhis customers fight vacuum issues) favoring instead explanations that cannot possibly be correct. For my application the Pirani sensor is the best choice and the positioning is correct according to vacuubrand who manufactures the sensor - " ... we are unaware of inaccuracies in readings from our sensors when installed as depicted."

Be VERY cautious when any salesman selling a Welch pump with red rubber hose tells you about what is needed because he or she is locking you into a real nightmare with eternally chasing the temperatures all around and 20-50C higher than is possible with a tight vacuum. You may even be told the system works great, but it is your own placement of (fill in the blank) that makes a multi thousand dollar commitment not work.

Here is a post of how I do it. There are only a couple inches of polymer tubing to couple things then stainless steel bellows otherwise for hose. This rig proves that distillation at 140C is possible at a vacuum of ¾ of one micron.

My suggestion is to avoid the salesman selling packages and learn for yourself what is needed. I would not invest in a Welch 1400 and certainly if you see a kit with one offered alongside orange rubber vacuum hose then understand that you are being sold a real headache because it means the folks selling it to you do not understand something fundamental about the process and likely will portray their knowledge as "expert".

Both vids are the same rig but second vid had thermometer placed one inch over top of boiling puddle inside boiling flask. This temp of 140C agrees with previous measurements during other setups I have done including my traditional short path head rig (not shown).

THC boils at 140C at a vacuum of ¾ of one micron as shown in the second video.

I have found erors in the across international 5 litter they also lie about next day delivery i payed 730.00$ for next day more like next week regular shiping also broke the head because the round bottom flask was to big to fit the mantal you gota sqeez it in there and ther is no play in it and the bottom sits about an inch from resting on the bottom. The neck broke by putting stress on the head with dry ice..i lifted the cow with a little bit of strain so it sits on dry ice since the round bottom flask was wedged in there it had no play!!!- thus stress ing the head. Bad for me... Also the send no grease they sead turn key more like fuck me!!!received_903296316501116.jpeg be carefull i also complained about next day delivery they were like owell real talk im curently talking to a glass blower who can blow it for a a quarter of the price the hole unit.. Fuck man what is america coming too.. I need quality.. And i want to pay what they claim!!! Were is the quality control.. Also bogart sent me off 35 grand unit the hoses were faulty and the valves leak the hoses replaced but again stuck in bumb fucked egypt and still gota take a day to go run shit down... No more i cant take this shit no more should i start putting a name out there and start putting units together better and cheaper???? I sound like an old prune but fuck man its serious what the fuck money doesnt grow on trees!!! Or its not easy growing money there more to it than that!!!!
 

Deisenhofer

New Member
Short path is very tricky. Those guys selling diy kits make it look like something anyone can do. Just remember these guys are salesmen. Their youtube videos are more infomercial more than instructional
Its the latest accessory to go along with the bho fad. Short path is a good way to clean up a wax derivative but theres still wax in there after you winterize so it makes your compound a little harder to distill. Polar/non polar extracts are like comparing apples and oranges....there both fruit but..........get away from the wax derivitives and the universe will open up for you. There is lots of ways to separate a cannabis oil compound into "fractions"
Water or etoh would extract oils terps and chlophyll. Chlorophyll is easy to remove on minutes with no solvents. I can distill the terps and cbc cbd oils out of my etoh extarct, leaving "the clear" behind in my boiling flask so i never have to get up to those high temps where things may get thst burnt rubber taste. Iso works well too. You would need a closed loop extractor for these in order to get a complete extraction. More than a quick wash will yield. You also need a really good vacuum pump in order to achieve that magic temperature 2 pressure ratio so as to avoid the burnt rubber oil. These kits are just lab gear these guys have marked up 300% or more. Unfortunately they have struck up deals with most of the glassmakers so they will not directly sell their short path Steelheads for less than what these guys are selling it for in their kits. In 1995 I bought my last short path for $40 and it has all the same features that the $700 ones have. Ridiculous.
Make sure you have a mantle that can heat that high whilst the vacuum is steeling your heat.
I'd say by the glassware and get into this slowly and experiment along the way. Try short path distilling some salicylic acid and making phenol. Technically this is not fractioning because phenol is made by the decarboxylation of salicylic acid at 220 degrees but it will give you a feel for hot vapor distillation and how this thing will go for you. and give you an idea of what other toys you will need.
Its a very skilled process, short path.
The pope aparatus is the turn key idiot proof thc machine thats really expensive but once you've burnt a few ounces of the clear it will start sounding like a sweet deal.
I did recently purchse another short path (like 2 years ago)
I found them all over priced because of this fad but i did find on layboy website
Short path vacuum jacketed with viragex indents and 25mm imersion thermometer for about $120 or $150. Way less than $500- $700
Layboy was the only glass manufacturer that did not strike up a non compete deal with these guys selling kits. Its good quality glass too
I know this is an old thread, but I have a few questions. I’m making tailored medicine for cancer patients. Every compound in the mix will be separated and analyzed by NMR. No mystery material can be tolerated.

Based on your thread, Im assuming you (gwpharms) know what an NMR is and that you likely have a PhD and you know a crapload more about this type of chemistry than I do at this point. Since NMR time is difficult for me to come by, I have some naive basic questions.

There are probably more chemists in this forum as well that also could answer my naive inquiry. Thanks for any help.

Pardon the technical questions

1) Are you putting the Ethanol extract straight in the short path?

2) At what vacuum are you distilling

3) How many passes

4) Does your product pass HPLC/NMR scrutiny or do you have mystery compounds? (The peaks from the other cannabinoids)

5) If there are other compounds present do you know what they are?

6) Does the material oxidize to give any off colors that would scare a patient? What is oxidizing

Thanks
 

Jedb

Member
I have found erors in the across international 5 litter they also lie about next day delivery i payed 730.00$ for next day more like next week regular shiping also broke the head because the round bottom flask was to big to fit the mantal you gota sqeez it in there and ther is no play in it and the bottom sits about an inch from resting on the bottom. The neck broke by putting stress on the head with dry ice..i lifted the cow with a little bit of strain so it sits on dry ice since the round bottom flask was wedged in there it had no play!!!- thus stress ing the head. Bad for me... Also the send no grease they sead turn key more like fuck me!!!View attachment 4028197 be carefull i also complained about next day delivery they were like owell real talk im curently talking to a glass blower who can blow it for a a quarter of the price the hole unit.. Fuck man what is america coming too.. I need quality.. And i want to pay what they claim!!! Were is the quality control.. Also bogart sent me off 35 grand unit the hoses were faulty and the valves leak the hoses replaced but again stuck in bumb fucked egypt and still gota take a day to go run shit down... No more i cant take this shit no more should i start putting a name out there and start putting units together better and cheaper???? I sound like an old prune but fuck man its serious what the fuck money doesnt grow on trees!!! Or its not easy growing money there more to it than that!!!!
Damn that's terrible man... I've heard some other stories about AI, but this is definitely making me not want to use them... How long did it actually last you?
 

g$420

Well-Known Member
That is a soxhlet. Its what we use. Not sure what kind of volume you plan to process but we Need to run 10 of these inline to extract 5 pounds of material.
QQ on this if you’re still around ~ Do you shortpath the crude from your Soxhlet? If so how’s it turning out Terp wise I have a few set ups just have to mixed this combo yet figured I’d ask you running 10 of them ;)
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Crude is to crude to short path. To many compounds in there that will dirty up your fractions. I filter out the chlorophyll and other garbage through fine mesh activated carbon from wood ash and celite.this leaves me with oil that is 85% up to 90+% d9.
hardly worth putting into short path unless we require a 98% thc or better. Not much other fractions left to collect other than thc.
It all depends on what your running too of course. Good product yeilds good oil. Kief is great and requires less filtration which saves more terps.
Some terps will survive the carbon filtration but not a full profile. And we get such a mix of different stuff running strain specific is really impractical to us. To Re introduce terps and custom engineer oil is just better, for me at least.
We've taken to mixing our own flavor profiles with terps from non canna sources.
But to answer your question, yes it does work with my cleaned up oil.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Crude is to crude to short path. To many compounds in there that will dirty up your fractions. I filter out the chlorophyll and other garbage through fine mesh activated carbon from wood ash and celite.this leaves me with oil that is 85% up to 90+% d9.
hardly worth putting into short path unless we require a 98% thc or better. Not much other fractions left to collect other than thc.
It all depends on what your running too of course. Good product yeilds good oil. Kief is great and requires less filtration which saves more terps.
Some terps will survive the carbon filtration but not a full profile. And we get such a mix of different stuff running strain specific is really impractical to us. To Re introduce terps and custom engineer oil is just better, for me at least.
We've taken to mixing our own flavor profiles with terps from non canna sources.
But to answer your question, yes it does work with my cleaned up oil.
Considering all that is extracted soxhleting, 85 to 90%+ d9 after just carbon filtration appears to be results from heaven. Did you have it tested and might you share the report?

Does that mean that your short path yields those numbers as well?
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Heres a couple screen shots. I have to crop out most of it because my personal contact info is on there but you get the idea. This is my raw extract after filtration, not short path runs. I dont have any of those test results that i can screen shot and exclude my info
 

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gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Considering all that is extracted soxhleting, 85 to 90%+ d9 after just carbon filtration appears to be results from heaven. Did you have it tested and might you share the report?

Does that mean that your short path yields those numbers as well?
 

Deisenhofer

New Member
I’ve never scaled a sohxlet extraction above lab scale (porphine). It’s an interesting avenue, considering it’s simplicity. Large scale tests?
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
I’ve never scaled a sohxlet extraction above lab scale (porphine). It’s an interesting avenue, considering it’s simplicity. Large scale tests?
Yes its interesting. There are better more modern ways and more simple ways but I like it
Yes tests are from large scale
 
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