scientists resurrect 30000 year old plant

Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
I think the whole idea of Christianity falls down with Jesus.

Jesus was a Jew. Jews are known as Gods chosen people. They believe only they will enter the kingdom of heaven. (same spiel of most religions).

If Christianity was the "one truth faith", why wouldn't God choose an atheist family to bore his son?

Jesus died at Passover..Yet Christians made up he died at Easter..

Why are nearly all (all??) Christian religious dates and festivities based on Pagan ones (a far older religion)?

Why has the Christian establishment always taken Mary Magdalene out of context and preached that she was a whore? Was it because she was his wife or a disciple?
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
the original bible was much longer than the current one. at least thirteen books (the apocrypha) that were in the original text have been edited out over the years by various "councils" and "congresses", one of those books, the book of lillith, tells about Adam's first wife.....made from the same dust as Adam, who was disobedient and left him to have sex with an archangel.........
 
Leandrobcool

Leandrobcool

Active Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
-the fossil record is no where near complete, and many species have been "rebuilt" by extrapolation, from fragments, using medical knowledge. just because they haven't found a complete skeleton of "the missing link" means absolutely nothing.
-no one EVER said that man evolved from modern apes....how the fuck could modern man evolve from a modern species?that arguement doesn't even make sense on a logical level.
-the "law of biogenesis" is a theory put out by louis pasteur. it is in fact, not a "law", and it seems to have no relevance to your arguement.
if indeed you use this arguement, where did the original life come from, that everything else evolved from (but i forgot, we didn't evolve)
-i don't even understand this argument....please clarify what symbiosis has to do with this argument?
-already covered in your first bullet point
-we didn't "come from apes", we evolved from a common ancestor if you go far enough back, and the different families diverged, leading to modern man, and modern apes.

the thing is, while i don't consider myself a christian, i'm not an atheist. i believe in a guiding intelligence, and don't think we happened solely by accident.
i do believe you need to educate yourself better. learn to think and don't swallow ignorant stupid bullshit blindly. theres nothing wrong with having faith and conviction, unless you let it blind you to the truth
Click to expand...

What I find extraordinary is your hypocrisy and your failed attempt to teach me a lesson, u accuse me of “swallowing ignorant stupid bs blindly” and yet u contradict yourself.

How is possible to believe guiding intelligence but still support the evolution theory, how can they work together?

And don’t we all first learn from others and then form our own opinion, or u r different and already have all the knowledge in this world?

U also don’t understand why I’m speaking about symbiosis, I find that symbiotic mechanism between two species can contradict the survival of the fittest crap. Take a look to this quote from Darwin “if it could be proved that any part of the structure of any one species had been formed for the exclusive good of another species, it would annihilate my theory, for such could not have been produced through natural selection” meaning the survival of species relying on each other “annihilates” his theory, because the bee “had been formed for the exclusive good of another species”.
So who needs to be educated now?

“Law of Biogenesis” is a theory not a “law” as u say…
Well, is “Theory of Evolution” a proven “law” we truly should believe in?
 
Leandrobcool

Leandrobcool

Active Member
Lucky Luke said:
I think the whole idea of Christianity falls down with Jesus.

Jesus was a Jew. Jews are known as Gods chosen people. They believe only they will enter the kingdom of heaven. (same spiel of most religions).

If Christianity was the "one truth faith", why wouldn't God choose an atheist family to bore his son?

Jesus died at Passover..Yet Christians made up he died at Easter..

Why are nearly all (all??) Christian religious dates and festivities based on Pagan ones (a far older religion)?

Why has the Christian establishment always taken Mary Magdalene out of context and preached that she was a whore? Was it because she was his wife or a disciple?
Click to expand...

I think that there r a lots of misconceptions on Christianity, often mixed with Catholic church, I understand that one might doubt of it.
Jesus died in 1 day of Passover, easter and christmas come from pagan holidays, and yet catholics and some christians still celebrate it, the only christians festivities that I know of r the Passover and Pentecost.
God didn’t choose an atheist family, because it needed to be a jew, they were chosen for that, all of this was prophesied by several people like by Isaiah, more than a thousands years before Jesus was born.

But Jesus is the key factor for my faith because he sacrificed himself for us, he did good to lots of people, and he left us a part of his wisdom.

He is the only mediator between us and God, not through saints, angels, priests, or any form of sculptures.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
why can't they work together? why couldn't evolution have been the mechanism god used to do what is described in the bible?
as long as you say everyone who doesn't believe what you believe is doomed to eternal damnation, we got nothing to talk about
 
Sassafras¥

Sassafras¥

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
the original bible was much longer than the current one. at least thirteen books (the apocrypha) that were in the original text have been edited out over the years by various "councils" and "congresses", one of those books, the book of lillith, tells about Adam's first wife.....made from the same dust as Adam, who was disobedient and left him to have sex with an archangel.........
Click to expand...
That's how Nephilim came about isn't it?
 
Jaybodankly

Jaybodankly

Well-Known Member
Biogenesis-The Ancient Greeks believed that living things could spontaneously come into being from nonliving matter, and that the goddess Gaia could make life arise spontaneously from stones – a process known as Generatio spontanea. Aristotle disagreed, but he still believed that creatures could arise from dissimilar organisms or from soil. Variations of this concept of spontaneous generation still existed as late as the 17th century, but towards the end of the 17th century, a series of observations and arguments began that eventually discredited such ideas. This advance in scientific understanding was met with much opposition, with personal beliefs and individual prejudices often obscuring the facts.
Wikipedia
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
And yet the "differences were subtle" between modern varieties of the same plant.
That's somewhat surprising. I thought 30k yrs would've been enough time for some greater differences.
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Leandrobcool said:
I was giving u an opportunity to not be embarrassed by your Naturalism and Evolution theories, but since u r too lazy to make research i will give u some hints:
-There r none Fossils records from the transitions between species, there should be as much as fossils from the actual species
-Latest Dna tests have shown that apes have the double of Y chromosome than men, and generally apes and men chromosomes r remarkably divergent and too different for the ape to man evolution
- The Law of Biogenesis (the Law of Life Beginnings) accurately states that life only comes from life, and that life only reproduces after its own kind. Life cannot spontaneously generate and life forms do not change from one kind into another kind
-How can u explain symbiosis ( like the bee/flower relation, they need each other to survive)?
-Where r the "missing links"?
-If we came from apes why they still exist today?

And the list goes on and on...
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-there are bones of many different stages and species of early human.
-we did not come from ape grand fathers, we are cousins.
- biogenesis is a hypothesis, not a law.
-how do you explain symbiotic relationships in nature? many fields of science and philosophy and religion address that question. i believe it is because everything is connected; science supports that hypothesis and i don't think any religion refutes that with any validity.
-missing links?
-we didn't come from apes

any questions?
not saying god doesn't exist but saying most of Christianity and their religions tell lies and many believe the lies because they believe in their religion so they repeat the misstuths. not all religious people denied science.
-
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
the original bible was much longer than the current one. at least thirteen books (the apocrypha) that were in the original text have been edited out over the years by various "councils" and "congresses", one of those books, the book of lillith, tells about Adam's first wife.....made from the same dust as Adam, who was disobedient and left him to have sex with an archangel.........
Click to expand...
the current bibles where pulled from books and the oldest writings from churches all over the world. priests and rabbis choose what to put in. There are Tomes ...
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Leandrobcool said:
~snip~
How is possible to believe guiding intelligence but still support the evolution theory, how can they work together?
~snip~
Click to expand...
This is what one calls a loaded question. I am wondering why one must exclude the other. I can easily imagine a guiding intelligence saying "let's set it up so it runs on its own internal energy/rules ... and evolves." It would be like watching a garden grow.

Earlier, you mentioned missing links and transitional species. This betrays a profound ignorance of how the current model of evolution works, and propagates some of the similarly loaded and thus dishonest "questions" being used by creationists to advance their particular memetic pathogen. In order to have a valid opinion on a topic, such as evolutionary biology, you must know something about it.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
i like that, i've often thought that we were like a garden, god may have started us, and he can take an active hand, but its up to us to grow and become what we can. any good gardener knows that the best thing to do is keep an eye on things and leave them alone if theres no major problems. the thing is, the last time society got anywhere close to this fucked up, god flushed the toilet and it took 40 days to drain
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
The universe is fractal, the same shit keeps happening over and over, over such long distances and measures of time that no one is ever the wiser that something completely different came before.

Although when it comes to human evolution, I have some doubts, there are these huge changes from iteration to iteration on the tree. That is not how evolution works in theory. One or 2 features may adapt at a time, but when you look at all the homo species, there are these massive time warp jumps in development. They are just so unique from one to the next.

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/giants-in-the-old-testament/
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
theres no rules that say the steps have to be small ones. the rules for mutations seem to be that way, but thats because big ones will usually not survive. the odds are small that a major mutation will survive, but one that does will represent a quantum leap over the rest of the population, and that mutations offspring will have the same advantages
 
ginjawarrior

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
This is what one calls a loaded question. I am wondering why one must exclude the other. I can easily imagine a guiding intelligence saying "let's set it up so it runs on its own internal energy/rules ... and evolves." It would be like watching a garden grow.

Earlier, you mentioned missing links and transitional species. This betrays a profound ignorance of how the current model of evolution works, and propagates some of the similarly loaded and thus dishonest "questions" being used by creationists to advance their particular memetic pathogen. In order to have a valid opinion on a topic, such as evolutionary biology, you must know something about it.
Click to expand...
Wow its the bear havent seen you on here in ages.. hows things? thought you'd disappeared for good
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
ANC said:
The universe is fractal, the same shit keeps happening over and over, over such long distances and measures of time that no one is ever the wiser that something completely different came before.

Although when it comes to human evolution, I have some doubts, there are these huge changes from iteration to iteration on the tree. That is not how evolution works in theory. One or 2 features may adapt at a time, but when you look at all the homo species, there are these massive time warp jumps in development. They are just so unique from one to the next.

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/giants-in-the-old-testament/
Click to expand...
There really aren't the quantum leaps between species. That is an artifact of the timescale of the fossil record, even the few million years we so far recognize as the time there was a genus Homo.

I recently read that there is a hypothesis that speciation requires a "permissive ecology", an environment that won't select out the less "fit" individuals who show mutations, ones that would be useless in the old ecology but useful in a changed one. Permissive ecologies usually occur in the aftermath of a regional disaster or other extinction event. Previously occupied niches are empty for repopulation by other species, who then adapt to the new environment. This appears to happen very fast, as the ten thousand years from wolf to Dachshund demonstrate. Genetically, dogs and wolves are the same species. The morphology was bred in (an example of a directed permissive ecology ... pups with traits we want but who would not survive in the wild get an artificial advantage) by us humans.

So I contend that the apparent suddenness of speciation is something current evolutionary theory actually supports and predicts. It is in predictive power that theories are kept or discarded, among other criteria.

The counterexample is the coelacanth. The ones that are sometimes dredged up on the South African coast are morphologically unchanged from their ancestors some 250 million years ago. They have lived in a secluded and very stable corner of our planet, the deep ocean. They have optimized to it and kept that shape and activity because no change was the optimum.

Now here is the paradox. The coelacanths of today are just as evolved as we are. They have not changed because they never were subjected to the need/opportunity of a changed environment. Should a population of coelacanths find a different environment, that group will become a new species as they adapt to the new lifestyle. But the chances of catching a "transitional form" between these two evolutionary optima is truly tiny, reinforcing the "quantum speciation" appearance.
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
There really aren't the quantum leaps between species. That is an artifact of the timescale of the fossil record, even the few million years we so far recognize as the time there was a genus Homo.

I recently read that there is a hypothesis that speciation requires a "permissive ecology", an environment that won't select out the less "fit" individuals who show mutations, ones that would be useless in the old ecology but useful in a changed one. Permissive ecologies usually occur in the aftermath of a regional disaster or other extinction event. Previously occupied niches are empty for repopulation by other species, who then adapt to the new environment. This appears to happen very fast, as the ten thousand years from wolf to Dachshund demonstrate. Genetically, dogs and wolves are the same species. The morphology was bred in (an example of a directed permissive ecology ... pups with traits we want but who would not survive in the wild get an artificial advantage) by us humans.

So I contend that the apparent suddenness of speciation is something current evolutionary theory actually supports and predicts. It is in predictive power that theories are kept or discarded, among other criteria.

The counterexample is the coelacanth. The ones that are sometimes dredged up on the South African coast are morphologically unchanged from their ancestors some 250 million years ago. They have lived in a secluded and very stable corner of our planet, the deep ocean. They have optimized to it and kept that shape and activity because no change was the optimum.

Now here is the paradox. The coelacanths of today are just as evolved as we are. They have not changed because they never were subjected to the need/opportunity of a changed environment. Should a population of coelacanths find a different environment, that group will become a new species as they adapt to the new lifestyle. But the chances of catching a "transitional form" between these two evolutionary optima is truly tiny, reinforcing the "quantum speciation" appearance.
Click to expand...
it would be difficult to catch the transitional species, as you would be living at the same time as it. it would be the standard to you. you would have to be aware of the history of this species to know that this wasn't the way they had always looked.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
it would be difficult to catch the transitional species, as you would be living at the same time as it. it would be the standard to you. you would have to be aware of the history of this species to know that this wasn't the way they had always looked.
Click to expand...
That is another sound point. It illustrates that the human timescale is not much like "deep time" at all. Ten thousand years is beyond any human experience, but disappears in a stratigraphic series.
 
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