Roots organic coco mix and ph

doug mirabelli

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I'm going to give growing another try inspired by legalization in mass this year. I'm trying both hydro and soil.

Regarding soil, I bought 2 large bags of roots organic coco mix and two 7 gallon buckets.

I've read some conflicting information. I've read that for organic soil, you do not need to mind the ph of your water. Furthermore, it can be detrimental to give your plant too much acid. Does this apply to coco mix? Can some people share success stories using coco mix and how they minded their ph (or didn't). Or, could someone recommend an organic bagged mix (not interested in mixing my own) that would not require ph minding.

I'm excited to transplant my 5 one week old babies from green house seed co. in a week!

Thanks in advance for your help and hope I don't come off newbish
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Hideyho there my northeastern neighbor!
Roots Organic Coco is soiless and is typically for hydroponics where you would use nutrients. In that case using nutes in coco you would need to maintain/adjust ph each time you feed. Hydro growers typically want a sterile medium so they can control conditions. You have to maintain ph for nutrient uptake to occur without issues. When you say "too much acid" you are actually talking about ph. A low ph is acidic like orange juice whereas a high ph is alkaline like the water inside a car battery. Too much acid is not like having a bad trip (da-dum crashh) its just that the plants cannot absorb all the available nutrients because the rootzone is not in the proper ph range.
Organic soil is very different; you don't need to bother with checking ph because the mix itself regulates the ph. All you'll need to do is add clean water and maybe the occasional AACT but the mix does most of the work and plants basically take care of themselves.
There are a few things to keep in mind when growing in organic soil that you don't have to worry about doing soilless/hydro. One being that you will need a chlorine free water source; municipal tap water is laden with fluoride and chloramine that will kill off the microbial life that feeds plants in an organic mix. The other is you'll need a source of compost to provide the microbial and fungal life that organic soil requires to sustain your plants throughout the entire grow cycle. It could be composted outdoors or you could buy a bag of worm castings and/or manure. This is in addition to a good quality soil mix that contains most of what your plants need so then all you have to add is water and maybe the occasional compost tea.
Roots organic soil is good to use but the coco version is actually a soiless hydroponic mix; no good for organic growing. I use fox farm ocean forest and/or sunshine mix in my grow but any decent garden soil will work...just add in some extra perlite and worm castings. Good thing about organic soil is you can keep on recycling it over & over by adding compost and an assortment of dry amendments to recharge it. Gets even better every time; aged soil is almost supernatural.....check out my thread if you want to see how I do it.
 
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DonTesla

Well-Known Member
I don't ph my water anything for the matter but I also don't use nutes or bad water sources. Only the purest, natural, whole food vegetable and fruit inputs, and pure water, the lights and microbes do the rest of the work.. agreed, Tap water is Chemical laiden just like dry sift says, so thats the main hurdle I think.. If you could find glacial, spring, or Ro water, its the ppm not the ph imwould be after. i shoot for 55 ppm on average .. very good post by the way, Dry :)
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Hideyho there my northeastern neighbor!
Roots Organic Coco is soiless and is typically for hydroponics where you would use nutrients. In that case using nutes in coco you would need to maintain/adjust ph each time you feed. Hydro growers typically want a sterile medium so they can control conditions. You have to maintain ph for nutrient uptake to occur without issues. When you say "too much acid" you are actually talking about ph. A low ph is acidic like orange juice whereas a high ph is alkaline like the water inside a car battery. Too much acid is not like having a bad trip (da-dum crashh) its just that the plants cannot absorb all the available nutrients because the rootzone is not in the proper ph range.
Organic soil is very different; you don't need to bother with checking ph because the mix itself regulates the ph. All you'll need to do is add clean water and maybe the occasional AACT but the mix does most of the work and plants basically take care of themselves.
There are a few things to keep in mind when growing in organic soil that you don't have to worry about doing soilless/hydro. One being that you will need a chlorine free water source; municipal tap water is laden with fluoride and chloramine that will kill off the microbial life that feeds plants in an organic mix. The other is you'll need a source of compost to provide the microbial and fungal life that organic soil requires to sustain your plants throughout the entire grow cycle. It could be composted outdoors or you could buy a bag of worm castings and/or manure. This is in addition to a good quality soil mix that contains most of what your plants need so then all you have to add is water and maybe the occasional compost tea.
Roots organic soil is good to use but the coco version is actually a soiless hydroponic mix; no good for organic growing. I use fox farm ocean forest and/or sunshine mix in my grow but any decent garden soil will work...just add in some extra perlite and worm castings. Good thing about organic soil is you can keep on recycling it over & over by adding compost and an assortment of dry amendments to recharge it. Gets even better every time; aged soil is almost supernatural.....check out my thread if you want to see how I do it.
very comprehensive answer my man.
well said.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I'm going to give growing another try inspired by legalization in mass this year. I'm trying both hydro and soil.

Regarding soil, I bought 2 large bags of roots organic coco mix and two 7 gallon buckets.

I've read some conflicting information. I've read that for organic soil, you do not need to mind the ph of your water. Furthermore, it can be detrimental to give your plant too much acid. Does this apply to coco mix? Can some people share success stories using coco mix and how they minded their ph (or didn't). Or, could someone recommend an organic bagged mix (not interested in mixing my own) that would not require ph minding.

I'm excited to transplant my 5 one week old babies from green house seed co. in a week!

Thanks in advance for your help and hope I don't come off newbish
I played football with a dude named doug mirabelli..
anyways, do you have access to vermifire? or vermisoil?
that's a good bagged soil to use, I had great results with it, provided you give them room, those 7 gals will work great for that. Just don't transplant too early in that big of container.
I prefer peat mixes to coco to be honest.
A better cec rate.
the statement of "for an organic soil you do not need to mind the ph of your water" that said as a blanket statement i'd strongly disagree with.
essentially ph in an organic soil, provided the soil is already conducive to growth, the root exudates of the plant will adjust to attract particular microbes to provide the ph that it "wants"
an example is acidic exudates attract fungi, alkaline ones attract bacterial
Even a healthy proper organic mix can get all fucked if the water is too high or low in ph
further still it depends on the types of nitrogen you use too, what type of nutrients you use, whether it's soluble or meal based.
But assuming the mix is high in humus (itself buffers ph by high CEC rates and it's ability to absorb hydrogen ions and cations) then the mix is far more likely to ever have any issues with ph being either too high or too low.
make sense?
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Yeah now that I think about and Grease mentions the high humus, he's bang on, I can afford to deviate early in a mix's life cause its a staple in our style, we love love love high humus, we build a lot from scratch just because its so fun to create humus..I do pay attention to pH a little bit, I suppose, as a mix ages over a couple years if we don't supplement the humus inputs that continue to break down in a highly active mix, cause over time pH will become a bigger and bigger player. That said, each harvest I shoot for the same colour, the trichomes actually talk to us as the gland cells and stalk cells (within a trichome capitate stalk and its bulb) will tinge certain colours at certian ph's which to me is really amazing ..

so for example yes, I avoid this one water that has a pH of 7.9 and a ppm of 285, even though its the best spring water for human consumption around, it has a mineral profile built for humans, and close to what plants would love if diluted (we like to keep it south of 100ppm unless when innoculating and triggering respones), but I avoid it because both the pH and ppM are too high for my garden-liking.

And when feeding the worms, I admit I do pay attention to whether they are getting too much alkaline based foods or acidic ones (taking note of their "ash" upon digestion)

I guess I didnt even realize, but its a part of everything, it just becomes second nature after a while!
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I'm going to give growing another try inspired by legalization in mass this year. I'm trying both hydro and soil.

Regarding soil, I bought 2 large bags of roots organic coco mix and two 7 gallon buckets.

I've read some conflicting information. I've read that for organic soil, you do not need to mind the ph of your water. Furthermore, it can be detrimental to give your plant too much acid. Does this apply to coco mix? Can some people share success stories using coco mix and how they minded their ph (or didn't). Or, could someone recommend an organic bagged mix (not interested in mixing my own) that would not require ph minding.

I'm excited to transplant my 5 one week old babies from green house seed co. in a week!

Thanks in advance for your help and hope I don't come off newbish
hmmmm it just occurred to me...
Massachusetts and doug mirabelli..
boston...
red sox...
catcher
another retired millionaire ex athlete that's growing herb in their closet?
haha
 

doug mirabelli

Well-Known Member
Ah lads,

Thank you all for sharing your expertise. Since I'm a rookie, my plan was to experiment with different grow mediums. I definitely like the idea of using Dry's organic compost method a lot (everyone's right btw, great response. Thank you). How do I access your thread? Real Newb here. Tes, I like your simple and clean approach as well. I will definitely take your guys' advice with me.

I'm pretty set on trying hydro with 400 watt hps using the "grow boss's" technique so I knew I wasn't avoiding pH all together. I wanted to put two girls outside in a 7 gallon bucket and just let them go with a Scrog. I thought it sounded simpler and would provide less room for error to use organic soil because I was under the impression that pH wasn't a worry. Me being a newb, I bought the first bag I saw that said organic on it (Roots organic coco mix).

Now I'm at a loss; should I stick with this mix? I can still take it back. Why do you prefer peat mixes, Grease? What's a cec rate? What should I transplant my pods into next? Also, unrelated topic; I noticed today there's small green spots forming on a couple Root Riot pods. Are they junk now? The babies themselves look healthy.

Definitely will be investing in an RO machine as I have no access to a glacier here in Boston. Btw for the record, I am not the real Doug Mirabelli, nor did I play football with you, Grease haha. I made the name a few years back out of randomness.
 

doug mirabelli

Well-Known Member
Rich man, been thinking about your supernatural compost. Maybe I should just ditch hydro, even thought I have almost all materials (minus nutes), and use compost under the 400 watt. I just have a strong feeling it will fail. I also feel like organic soil does all the leg work. Could you help me navigate to your 101 thread? Thanks mayn
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
It does...i would try to return that coco if you can & exchange for some regular roots organic soil or FFOF or black gold or sunshine mix or vermifire. Btw I've been collecting most of the water I use from the rain and the rest is from a dehumidifier I keep clean. You can do without an RO unit if you just put buckets out under an awning; the northeast drought is over yay! Last summer I had to go to Walmart to use their RO but still it's super cheap at .37/gal. Here's a link to my thread:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/dick-does-dank.909077/
 
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DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Lot of smart guys here and all are very very good at their style but its always good to experiment so you feel satisfied in your heart of hearts! A one time test can lead to life time of learning!

I personally still rock coco, but I've learned the coco nut well and use it wholeheartedly in my mix, in several ways, I find the expression and Retention really good but my cec on my castings is really high and I push the clean ingredients to their max every couple years and use bio char etc

As for our thread its in the organic section you can't miss it, come stop by and compare notes!! These boys you're talking to are gonna help you get yields but what I can do is help you get sheer expression, colour and smell you've dreamed of all smelling and witnessing in one strain, so together, were all better and for the wiser !!
 

doug mirabelli

Well-Known Member
Don and Rick,

I have been frequenting your threads and trying to soak up some of your experience and wisdom. Congrats to you both on your successes and thank you for passing your knowledge to others. A lot of what you guys have said changed my plans. Rick's post comparing the taste of hydro to natural soil really got me thinking I should reconsider hydro. And that's exactly what I really want, Don, true gene expression. Especially taste. I really regard taste as very important. I don't care so much about yield. I've always been a quality over quantity typea guy. Anyway you guys are my role models and I believe in your philosophy.

So update on my grow: I made a mistake; I didn't purchase RO coco mix, I got RO original which has coco fiber I believe. So I guess I'm going to just run with that for now as I don't have a month to prepare my own soil. Think I'm going to get some 3 gal pots to transplant my 9 day olds this weekend.

Rick, Thanks for the info on using rain water. You saved me the wasted purchase. I have access to a rain barrel didn't even think about it.

Now, should I use ph down to fix the pH with this medium? I heard it causes white sludge. Lime??

Thanks for accepting me in the organic community!

Cheahhhs

Nickybokchoy
 

doug mirabelli

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking I can start making soil mix for when I transplant though right? How long will they last in 3 gal pots? Maybe transplant in a 5 gal instead? If more time is needed for the mix to "cook". Is there got water involved? I'm just babbling. Any recommendations are welcomed and appreciated.
 

doug mirabelli

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking I can start making soil mix for when I transplant though right? How long will they last in 3 gal pots? Maybe transplant in a 5 gal instead? Any recommendations are welcomed and appreciated. Meanwhile I'm going to do some reading on the stickys to develop a plan hea
 

doug mirabelli

Well-Known Member
Ah, I'm learning already. I never knew what people were referring to when they talk about "teas". Nutrient concoctions? Very interesting. I won't need to feed for a while though right? Because the RO mix has it in it?
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Here's a pic of my makeshift setup. Notice the greening on the pods. Prob over watered? No air movement? I such at this
Yes get a small fan to circulate the air and back off on watering them. That green shit looks like algae or maybe some kind of mold growing. No big deal you want them to stay moist but never saturated. Use only a spray bottle to water them and just spritz as needed. If you are using a bagged mix I wouldn't add anything except maybe some worm castings and extra perlite. Neither needs to be "cooked" in and this doesn't actually involve heat only time.
I think it's always better to start out with smaller size containers and then transplant as needed until you get to the final size you want to trigger flowering in and then let it ride all the way to harvest time. I would go 3g for a few weeks or so and then to a 5g & sprinkle granular mycorrhizae in the hole each time you do it. I flower in 7-10 g pots but final pot size really depends upon your flowering space. If you don't know what mycorrhizae is then you've got more reading to do before you grow organic.
This book is a really great primer for home growers:
https://www.amazon.com/True-Living-Organics-All-Natural-Marijuana/dp/1931160961

No you won't need to feed for awhile. Wait until they have been in larger pots for a couple weeks then you can give them a weak compost tea. I'm not sure that the term RO means what you think it does.
 

doug mirabelli

Well-Known Member
When I said RO I. That context I meant roots organic. I do know about reverse osmosis thank you for the info on rain water as an alternative. I did get these products at the hydro store today for transplant this weekend. I want to get a 4x4x5 tent but I can't find one that size. Might have to get 4x2x5. My space is barely 6 ft tall. Would 600 watt gps suit? Too hot? From what I read 400 watt is recommended for 4x2
 

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