Root rot prevention with chlorine, hypochlorite, monochloramine...

poindexterous

poindexterous

Active Member
With most of the challenges of hydroponic gardening over the years I have been able to find solutions that have proved consistent and lasting, yet root rot has been more elusive. It will go away for long enough periods of time that I assume I've solved it, only to show up again, and with methods and in systems that did just fine the previous round. It will randomly strike some plants but not others even in the same system, despite taking the normal measures of prevention: nutrient aeration and temp, system hygiene, etc. H2O2 never seemed to help either. So I'm looking for a final solu...bad choice of words...a permanent fix.

I'm just focusing on hydroponic methods using refined nutrients and inert media, not organic methods as the treatment methods I'm mentioning would not apply to organics.

Having read through tons of posts here and elsewhere I noticed that the most consistent positive results were from products containing chlorine. At least three different hydroponic "root health" supplements list chlorine in various forms as the active ingredient, although dilute doses of pool or laundry hypochlorite are said to be just as effective and much cheaper.

I'm just beginning to experiment with chlorine so I can't yet speak of results but I tried an experiment with one plant where I brought the nutrient solution to 3ppm free chlorine using a pool test kit, and it seems to have no adverse effect on the plant after several days of recirculating. 3ppm is a typical level for a swimming pool.

I'll keep updating as I see if this method works in the long run, but for now I have a few questions: My test kit shows both "free chlorine" and "total chlorine", the free chlorine gets used up pretty fast, but the total chlorine stays, so in order to keep some free chlorine more must be added, but then the total rises even though the free does not. So I'm wondering what ppm of total chlorine is ok? Anybody have any experience with chlorine??
 
jrinlv

jrinlv

Well-Known Member
I used it (Brand name chlorox) for a round and think it is hard on your pumps and plastics. I now use horticulture peroxide (35%) at 5ml per gallon.

No matter what you use you will need to add it again every 3-4 days. With the peroxide my water stays very clear, it's nice...JR
 
poindexterous

poindexterous

Active Member
jrinlv said:
I used it (Brand name chlorox) for a round and think it is hard on your pumps and plastics. I now use horticulture peroxide (35%) at 5ml per gallon.

No matter what you use you will need to add it again every 3-4 days. With the peroxide my water stays very clear, it's nice...JR
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I haven't gone at high as 5ml/gal with the h2o2, so perhaps it's worth another try with the higher dose. How much chlorox did you use per gal and how often? Thanks
 
drgreentm

drgreentm

Well-Known Member
poindexterous said:
I haven't gone at high as 5ml/gal with the h2o2, so perhaps it's worth another try with the higher dose. How much chlorox did you use per gal and how often? Thanks
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bleach is a good alternative to h202 or peroxide i should say. choempi's thread says 6-8 drops per gallons witch i have figured out to be about 1/4 tsp per 5 gal's at 6 drops per gallon you cant use this treatment for organic nutes pretty sure you know this already think you already stated it in your first post. from the thread it states you have to add more every day or so if im not mistaken. chlorine will eventually dissipate from sitting water i will get you a link.
 
choempi

choempi

Well-Known Member
jrinlv said:
I used it (Brand name chlorox) for a round and think it is hard on your pumps and plastics. I now use horticulture peroxide (35%) at 5ml per gallon.

No matter what you use you will need to add it again every 3-4 days. With the peroxide my water stays very clear, it's nice...JR
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How is it hard on your pump and/or plastic? I have run clorox continually and have noticed no such effects. Cheap pump?
 
choempi

choempi

Well-Known Member
drgreentm said:
bleach is a good alternative to h202 or peroxide i should say. choempi's thread says 6-8 drops per gallons witch i have figured out to be about 1/4 tsp per 5 gal's at 6 drops per gallon you cant use this treatment for organic nutes pretty sure you know this already think you already stated it in your first post. from the thread it states you have to add more every day or so if im not mistaken. chlorine will eventually dissipate from sitting water i will get you a link.
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6 to 8 drops per gallon add back every 3 or 4 days and no problems ever again.
 
poindexterous

poindexterous

Active Member
choempi said:
6 to 8 drops per gallon add back every 3 or 4 days and no problems ever again.
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Hey Choempi, when I was digging through posts about chlorine I recall you were there as well as a guy by the handle of "Fatman", wow did that guy know his stuff ! I think I read he was banned?? How'd that happen?? Seems like he was a real asset here.

And so a little bleach has worked like a charm for you? No root rot since? What kind of ponic system do you run?
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
I tried sterilizing agents for a long time to try and fix a root slime problem. Beneficial microbes ended up being a magic bullet for me. I prefer them over bleach.

ounevinsmoke said:
Just wondering why you would prefer chemicals over organics?
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Organics turn into chemical fertilizer once they are decomposed.
 
poindexterous

poindexterous

Active Member
ounevinsmoke said:
Just wondering why you would prefer chemicals over organics?
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Guess it seems cleaner and more controllable in hydroponics, ponic nutes are just mineral salts which are pretty benign as opposed to synthetic chemicals, if I was convinced I'd do better with organics I may reconsider.
 
poindexterous

poindexterous

Active Member
Heisenberg said:
I tried sterilizing agents for a long time to try and fix a root slime problem. Beneficial microbes ended up being a magic bullet for me. I prefer them over bleach.
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I thought microbes and enzymes were just for more "organic" nutrients? Is that not so? What product worked best for you?
 
choempi

choempi

Well-Known Member
I really do not mean to be flippant about organic grows at all. I especially like hiesenbergs posts.

Being said, the OP asks for the effectiveness of bleach in preventing root rot and the answer is the same, non-organics; 6 to 8 drops per gallon add back every third or forth day. Done.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
poindexterous said:
I thought microbes and enzymes were just for more "organic" nutrients? Is that not so? What product worked best for you?
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You are 99% correct. In hydro the only reason to use them is to prevent disease. This is a job they do very well, and superior to any sterilizing agent. They do offer a few other small advantages, but since they are not needed to break down organics and what not, you don't have to care for them as much. You don't add housing or food for them.

I make my own microbe 'tea' using several cheap products as well as EWC. I make 2 gal every 10 days, it keeps in the fridge. I use that two gallons to inoculate gallons and gallons of res water. Products I like; aquashield and ZHO powder are cheap and very effective. Great white is the best but expensive. Advanced Nutrients products are overpriced and questionable quality. Fungi.com sells a powder for $6/oz that contains an excellent collection of microbes, and is in fact the same powder great white uses; they just add vitamins and bio-stimulants and repackage.

Anyway I have a post here detailing how to make it if you are interested. It's cheap and easy, and IMO the proper way to prevent disease in a perpetual DWC garden.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
choempi said:
I really do not mean to be flippant about organic grows at all. I especially like hiesenbergs posts.

Being said, the OP asks for the effectiveness of bleach in preventing root rot and the answer is the same, non-organics; 6 to 8 drops per gallon add back every third or forth day. Done.
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Agree, bleach was one of the only things that killed the slime in my res, and my plants showed no signs of stress from it. Nothing wrong with using it if that is your preference. I simply didn't like the idea of bleach in my res, though I have no logic to back up the apprehension.

OP, I prefer synthetic nutes as well. I use the entire dutch master line. You are spot on when you say it is easier to control and be more precise. Organic material must be broken down by microbes before it is available for uptake by roots. Since hydro is about enhancing and fine-tuning the growing process, it seems prudent to use nutrients that do not depend on microbes to process them. Of course some growers are experienced enough to utilize organics in hydro and still have complete control, and those grows are indeed amazing.
 
poindexterous

poindexterous

Active Member
Heisenberg said:
You are 99% correct. In hydro the only reason to use them is to prevent disease. This is a job they do very well, and superior to any sterilizing agent. They do offer a few other small advantages, but since they are not needed to break down organics and what not, you don't have to care for them as much. You don't add housing or food for them.

I make my own microbe 'tea' using several cheap products as well as EWC. I make 2 gal every 10 days, it keeps in the fridge. I use that two gallons to inoculate gallons and gallons of res water. Products I like; aquashield and ZHO powder are cheap and very effective. Great white is the best but expensive. Advanced Nutrients products are overpriced and questionable quality. Fungi.com sells a powder for $6/oz that contains an excellent collection of microbes, and is in fact the same powder great white uses; they just add vitamins and bio-stimulants and repackage.

Anyway I have a post here detailing how to make it if you are interested. It's cheap and easy, and IMO the proper way to prevent disease in a perpetual DWC garden.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that info, I had assumed beneficial microbes needed organics to survive, but it sounds like not, and all I'd need them to do is prevent disease, so perfect. I add a little H2O2 to my rez, more for the extra oxygen than to disinfect, will that harm beneficial microbes? Or might they be fine with it?
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
poindexterous said:
Thanks for that info, I had assumed beneficial microbes needed organics to survive, but it sounds like not, and all I'd need them to do is prevent disease, so perfect. I add a little H2O2 to my rez, more for the extra oxygen than to disinfect, will that harm beneficial microbes? Or might they be fine with it?
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It will kill them. It will also strip your nutes of any chelating agents, if your nutes use them. If your airpump provides 1wt per gallon then you have enough bubbles, although more is a good idea.
 
T

Tiger Woods

Well-Known Member
I hate when I see add a few drops, no offense to anyone but its just not precise. How much is in a drop anyway? I don't remember?

Fatman suggest clorox at 1ml per 10 gallons every 3-4 days. Choempi has a great thread where fatman chimes in. Another very informative thread and more on topic is titled Root Rot and he also goes into more detail on using bleach for that purpose as well as for pathogen control every 3-4 days.

I don't have the link but it shouldn't be to hard to find. Type in root rot bleach and it should pop up. Sometimes Googles search engine works better just type in rollitup.org and whatever your looking for.

I prefer synthetics in hydro just makes more sense.
Hydro- chemical
Soil-organic

Don't get me wrong organics does have its place, I believe its in dirt,lol. For years my belief are the keys to growing consistantly,quality and on time are Ventilation,Light,Temp,ph and pathogen control. Now iam thinking that pathogen control is still up for debate(when using incolant/mychorizzal)just not necessary when using GW and the like. I've been trying my best to keep life out of my rez. but after extensive research this GW is the real deal and will be trying it out. It just breaks one of the most important keys(pathogen control) since I won't be able to us bleach/h2o2 as it will just kill everything the GW has added to the rez. I guess in essence and from what I've read(heistinberg apparently agrees) there's simply no need for it and the GW regulates everything for me saving me the 3-4 day dose.

Peace and Good vibes to All!
 
bird mcbride

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
I have operated a flood and drain table for years and I have never had bud rot or rootrot. In my personal op I use cheap fertilizer (mg) domolite lime and ashes. In our commercial tables we use eco-bloom A&B, and ph down and ph up if neccesary. The only bud rot I've seen in our commercial ops was when Doug the electrician set up a contant flow system in an attempt to prove my F&D tables were inefficient.
 
choempi

choempi

Well-Known Member
bird mcbride said:
I have operated a flood and drain table for years and I have never had bud rot or rootrot. In my personal op I use cheap fertilizer (mg) domolite lime and ashes. In our commercial tables we use eco-bloom A&B, and ph down and ph up if neccesary. The only bud rot I've seen in our commercial ops was when Doug the electrician set up a contant flow system in an attempt to prove my F&D tables were inefficient.
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If your system is tight, no need to change a thing. There are a lot of Dougs in this hobby.
 
choempi

choempi

Well-Known Member
Tiger Woods said:
I hate when I see add a few drops, no offense to anyone but its just not precise. How much is in a drop anyway? I don't remember?

Fatman suggest clorox at 1ml per 10 gallons every 3-4 days. Choempi has a great thread where fatman chimes in. Another very informative thread and more on topic is titled Root Rot and he also goes into more detail on using bleach for that purpose as well as for pathogen control every 3-4 days.

I don't have the link but it shouldn't be to hard to find. Type in root rot bleach and it should pop up. Sometimes Googles search engine works better just type in rollitup.org and whatever your looking for.

I prefer synthetics in hydro just makes more sense.
Hydro- chemical
Soil-organic

Don't get me wrong organics does have its place, I believe its in dirt,lol. For years my belief are the keys to growing consistantly,quality and on time are Ventilation,Light,Temp,ph and pathogen control. Now iam thinking that pathogen control is still up for debate(when using incolant/mychorizzal)just not necessary when using GW and the like. I've been trying my best to keep life out of my rez. but after extensive research this GW is the real deal and will be trying it out. It just breaks one of the most important keys(pathogen control) since I won't be able to us bleach/h2o2 as it will just kill everything the GW has added to the rez. I guess in essence and from what I've read(heistinberg apparently agrees) there's simply no need for it and the GW regulates everything for me saving me the 3-4 day dose.

Peace and Good vibes to All!
Click to expand...
Excellent post and the reasoning is sound. Heisenbergs posts and methods are also excellent.
 
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