Root Rot - H2O2 Vs. Organic Protection

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by racer3456, Jan 18, 2009.

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What do you use to combat and/or prevent root rot?

  1. H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide)

    30 vote(s)
    68.2%
  2. Organic Protection (AN Piranha or the equiv.)

    14 vote(s)
    31.8%
  1.  
    racer3456

    racer3456 Well-Known Member

    I have lately been having some issues with pythium and root rot. I am just seeing what everybody else likes to use to combat and/or prevent it. I know a lot of people like h2o2, but I have also heard a lot of good things with the organic root protectants and inoculates. Some examples would be Piranha by AN or Subculture by GH. I know there are also root builders (Tarantula and Voodoo Juice just to name a few), but I am mainly concerned with just the organic protection. Since h2o2 and the organic supplements are incompatible with each other, I can only use one of the above. So, what do you think is best and why? Thanks in advance guys!
  2.  
    Roseman

    Roseman Elite Rolling Society

    Pythium, Roor Rot
    permalink

    Thick, fat, white furry roots are what you most want to see - they are absolutely indicative of healthy root growth. Be aware however that the color of a nutrient solution will stain the roots, turning them yellow or brown. This is also true of many nutrient additives. Older, more mature plants will have a darker cream-colored root system, and some plants just tend to have a natural cream colored color pigment.
    Root Zone Temperature
    The temperature of the root zone and the temperature of the nutrient water solution can have a major effect on the healthy growth and appearance of the root system. In general the temperature should be between 68 and 72 degrees farenheit. Anywhee between 64 and 80 will be OK. Colder or warmer conditions can cause poor and stunted root growth, as the roots don't want to grow into the unhospitable nutrient solution. Major root death can occur in even brief periods of cold or heat stress. Poor temperature conditions leave the door open to root disease.

    Some would argue that one of the strengths of hydroponics is its sterile environment, and the notion of exposing growing systems to bacterial and fungal organisms would be self-defeating, if not sacrilegious. These growers rely on sterile growing environments, strong disinfectants and a product like SM-90. Another option is Hydrogen Peroxide. Each of these offer their own protection and benefits. But NEITHER SM-90 or Hydrogen Peroxide works well with organic nutes or organic additives in the reservoir. You can not try to kill the organic algae or pythium and add organic materials back. That just won't work!
    They do not work well together and SM-90 has also been known to react poorly with Superthrive.
    In a sterile growing environment, your goal is to have a super clean reservoir. This is harder than it sounds. Folks who have been growing in the same area with the same equipment for years might find that they are suddenly having root problems when they never had them before. Or a new grower might begin having problems right from the beginning because of his water or temps.
    Keeping your reservoir totally sterile can work very well, but once you get a population of icky badness it will keep coming back again and again. Some pathogens such as pythium are almost impossible to get rid of completelely. No matter how many times you sterilize everything with a bleach solution, the problem returns. It can get very frustrating and expensive to constanly be battling. More and more innovative growers are moving toward a more wholistic approach of using good microbes in the reservoir with organic nutes or staying with strickly chemical nutes..
    One option is to use no organic additives at all and to rely strictly on chemical nutrients based on fertilizer salts. We think a better choice is to continue using organic material, but also using an enzymatic addtive like Hygrozyme that will break down the unwanted organic matter in the reservoir . If you would like to use additives such as bat guano, compost or fish-based products, you might consider run to waste instead of a recirculating system.
  3.  
    Roseman

    Roseman Elite Rolling Society

    I found this article very interesting. It was written by Ed Rosenthal, and Major Tom first psoted a link to it. I se a lot of mis-information about peroxide, so I thought I'd start a peroxide thread, to give Hydro growers an opprotunity to share experiences with peroxide.
    Here is the article:

    by Ed Rosenthal.
    How much hydrogen peroxide should be used?
    [​IMG]

    When and how much hydrogen peroxide should I use in my hydroponic solution?

    Hydrogen peroxide is a powerful oxidizer that can be used to destroy fungi, molds, bacteria and other infectious agents as well as some pollutants. Adding it to your water helps plants by destroying infectious agents and by adding oxygen to the roots' environment.
    Hydrogen peroxide is an essential ingredient in maintaining a clean growing room. It replaces chlorine bleach, which is antiseptic but harmful to breathe. When added to reservoirs, hydrogen peroxide slows the growth of algae and other water organisms so that trays and utensils need to be cleaned less frequently. Soil and water borne diseases such as pythium and other stem and root rots occur at much lower rates in hydrogen peroxide-enriched water. Hydrogen peroxide works because of the oxidative reaction, so micro-organisms are unlikely to develop a tolerance.
    There are many ways to add hydrogen peroxide to the water. A measured amount every three days is the crudest method, but still effectively enriches the water. A smaller measured amount daily would even out the peaks and valleys of oxygen in the water. Another method is to use a drip similar to an IV bag, which continuously adds a regulated amount. The most sophisticated method is a probe which measures the oxygen content of the water as an indirect means of measuring the hydrogen peroxide, and adds an appropriate amount as needed.
    When used properly, hydrogen peroxide can keep infections in the garden to a minimum and stimulate root growth by increasing the oxygen content of the water. Hydrogen peroxide degrades into free oxygen and water over a three-day period. Some of the oxygen dissolves in the reservoir water and is used by the roots.
    Different concentrations of hydrogen peroxide solution are available. It is sold diluted to 3% in drug stores. Some indoor garden shops sell 10% grade and 35% grade is sold in a few health food stores and over the Internet. The 3% hydrogen peroxide solution can be used topically to sterilize cuts and infections. Hydrogen peroxide solution at 10% burns skin. 35% hydrogen peroxide solution acts much like a concentrated acid and is handled as a hazardous, corrosive liquid.
    The 10% hydrogen peroxide solution is sometimes used at rates as low as one ounce per 10 gallons water; however, enrichment using an ounce per gallon is more effective for disease control. When 35% hydrogen peroxide solution is used, it can be added at the rate of three ounces per 10 gallons of water. If a 3% solution is used, use three ounces per gallon of water.
    ZeroTol is a peroxide-based commercial sterilizing agent used in the greenhouse industry. Its active ingredient, HO2, also breaks down into oxygen and water, but it is even more active than 35% hydrogen peroxide. It is used at the rate of one part per 300, or three ounces per 10 gallons, for excellent prevention of diseases and infections. ZeroTol is available from Bio-Safe Systems in Connecticut (1-888-273-3088; www.biosafesystems.com) and through some other gardening supply stores.
  4.  
    Roseman

    Roseman Elite Rolling Society

    He seems to promote it more as a preventative, or aid, instead of a cure.
    Anf as I researched the subject I learned that peroxide is better as a prevetative, than a cure. Like it really slows down algae growth, but it is not 100% effective at removing or killing it all.

    I would also add it is NOT to be mixed with organic nutes, that is destructive and like pissing in the wind.
    Any other ideas or opinions on peroxide in HYDRO are much welcomed.
  5.  
    racer3456

    racer3456 Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much for all the info, especially the article by Ed Rosenthal. I guess I would like to hear some people's experiences if they have tried either, or both (not at the same time obviously) and see if they think one did a better job than the other. The first article doesn't really say which is better; it just mentions that organic protection is available. I am surprised I am having this issue, especially since I keep my temps at 62-68. I just bleached all my equipment and soaked them for a 2 hours in it. I bought some new air hoses just in case there was any pythium lurking inside of my old ones.
  6.  
    surferbum6900

    surferbum6900 Well-Known Member

    so would it be ok to use 3% with forfarm nutes?
  7.  
    LostInSpace...

    LostInSpace... Well-Known Member

    No, I'm pretty sure Foxfarm nutes are organic therefore incompatible with H2O2.
  8.  
    Eharmony420

    Eharmony420 Well-Known Member

    I use hydroguard. I read that they are stopping to sell it on their company website for a while. But there is still some out there.

    I got 2 big bottles on ebay for 20 bucks a botle. Hydro shops sell it in trial sizes with 3 other products from Botanicare. I think cal mag and flora kleen.

    I have no probs. I am using bloombastic and also h202 i dangerous not only to the enzymes in bloombastic but harsh i have read. Also I want more organics in the future for my fun little med grow. I got liver disease already.hehe.
  9.  
    NewGrowth

    NewGrowth Well-Known Member

    Nothing better than h202 it is cheap, easy, and effective. No organic additive can come close. :peace:
  10.  
    Squarepusher45

    Squarepusher45 Well-Known Member

    Here is my experience with root rot, algae, and or pythium, or whatever the heck I had in my res water.
    Slimy roots that gradually turn brown, starts with white slime and it progress thru to brown slime, the roots start dying off and clumping together.
    Started using 17ml\L of H2O2. Worked pretty good for a couple of weeks. Had to keep adding it bout every 2 to 3 days. But eventually the H2O2 became ineffective, was using up to a Litre a week in a 6 gallon res and falling behind the curve.

    Am using non organic nut's. GH Flora.
    Went and bought some Hygrozyme. The Hygrozyme immediately made an improvement, new root growth started within 24 hours, after a week all the old roots had dissolved away and a complete new set had grown in.
    And when I say dissolved away that is exactly what I mean, they literally dissolved into sugar and fed the new roots.
    Drained the res after a week and there was a layer of sugary tasting goo on the bottom of the res. Yes I tasted it and I coulda used it to sweeten my coffee.

    I still use a little H2O2 as Hygrozyme is compatible with it at low ppm.

    Now I really don't have any experience with other root products like Canazime or Hydroguard but so far the Hygrozyme has done the job and saved my grow.
    mighty g likes this.
  11.  
    NewGrowth

    NewGrowth Well-Known Member

    You need a higher percentage h202, I use 35% only need 1.7ml/L
  12.  
    Emosdoom

    Emosdoom Active Member

    Where is everyone getting the 35% H2O2 from? Every online hydro store Ive tried is no longer selling it. Ive been told there are shipping problems and EPA labeling issues. Any help?
  13.  
    bubblerking

    bubblerking Well-Known Member

    h202 is best i have used everything known to man
  14.  
    NewGrowth

    NewGrowth Well-Known Member

    Check out restaurant supply, health food stores, and chemical supply companies for 50%. 35% is labeled as "Food Grade" :peace:
  15.  
    racer3456

    racer3456 Well-Known Member

    50% seems to be a lot more expensivethan even the 35% when you compare them cost per weight.
  16.  
    LostInSpace...

    LostInSpace... Well-Known Member

    I pay AU$20/Litre delivered interstate for 50% H2O2 from an online hydro shop. I live in Australia tho... just for reference.
  17.  
    glann

    glann Active Member


    lol dude tasted it, thats epic
  18.  
    clownbow

    clownbow Member

    sm-90 is not a disinfectant you can use it with beneficial bacteria ...it is clearly not a disinfectant
  19.  
    SnapsProvolone

    SnapsProvolone Well-Known Member

    I use bleach. 2.5ml regular strength per gallon.
  20.  
    superstoner1

    superstoner1 Well-Known Member

    And for less than $20 you can get enough pondzyme to last a year.

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