Ridiculously slow growth

I asked for help in the newbie forum (I'm a newbie) but didn't get a definitive answer. Maybe you guys can help.

Growing under 3x 65W CFL 18/6 with a few hours of sunlight when it's available. The photos show my plants at about three weeks old.

I'm careful with watering and have only very lightly fed them 1/4 strength "Jack's Classic" water soluble plant food (20 20 20.) My grow box has a fan and humidifier. My CFLs are no more than two inches above the plant tops.

Commercial seedling starter soil (Black Gold.)

Strains are Jackberry x Shack, Candy Kush and Cheeseberry Haze.

I don't know what my pH is but plan on finding out ASAP.

This is my first grow. Take pity on this old man and help me out.

Thank you

Camo Hat said:

I asked for help in the newbie forum (I'm a newbie) but didn't get a definitive answer. Maybe you guys can help.

Growing under 3x 65W CFL 18/6 with a few hours of sunlight when it's available. The photos show my plants at about three weeks old.

I'm careful with watering and have only very lightly fed them 1/4 strength "Jack's Classic" water soluble plant food (20 20 20.) My grow box has a fan and humidifier. My CFLs are no more than two inches above the plant tops.

Strains are Jackberry x Shack, Candy Kush and Cheeseberry Haze.

I don't know what my pH is but plan on finding out ASAP.

This is my first grow. Take pity on this old man and help me out.

Thank you

Click to expand...

IMO the bottleneck would be the CFLs...


They'll take off soon enough, tht burst of growth from veg is right around the corner - but i wouldn't expect incredibly fast growth w/ cfls...


IDK about feeding them already. What's in your soil?

ayr0n said:

IMO the bottleneck would be the CFLs...


They'll take off soon enough, tht burst of growth from veg is right around the corner - but i wouldn't expect incredibly fast growth w/ cfls...


IDK about feeding them already. What's in your soil?

Click to expand...

They're in commercial seedling potting soil (Black Gold.)

I've ordered two 600 watt lamps. A metal halide and HPS.

Thanks, man.

Camo Hat said:

They're in commercial seedling potting soil (Black Gold.)

I've ordered two 600 watt lamps. A metal halide and HPS.

Thanks, man.

Click to expand...

Hell yea you'll like the hd lamps. What kind of soil are you gonna transplant them into when they get bigger?

ayr0n said:

Hell yea you'll like the hd lamps. What kind of soil are you gonna transplant them into when they get bigger?

Click to expand...

I haven't looked that far ahead yet ary0n. I just tested my water pH and it's about 7.4. I need to lower that !

Camo Hat said:

I haven't looked that far ahead yet ary0n. I just tested my water pH and it's about 7.4. I need to lower that !

Click to expand...

yep definitely a little high. Mine comes out around 7.2ish from the well. Couple drops of pH down normally does the trick, even tho soil does naturally buffer the pH (lotta ppl don't bother w/ pH in soil) i personally think it makes a difference to start off at 6.5 for your water so nutrient availability is high off the jump without having to wait for the soil web to buffer it...?? might just be placebo tho too lol.

Hi Camo, What Size Pots do you have them and? and do Pots have drainage holes? Have You popped One out(carefully) to check the Roots? I would Raise the Lights a little maybe another Inch(because they are so small) Also do You Bulbs on side or Tips facing down?
3 x 65w, but which? 2700K or 6400K Jiffy Lemon is great for lowering pH. most compost(inc seedling) has added Nutes, So maybe knock the "Jacks Classic" on the head till they a little bigger/older.

atb

ayr0n said:

yep definitely a little high. Mine comes out around 7.2ish from the well. Couple drops of pH down normally does the trick, even tho soil does naturally buffer the pH (lotta ppl don't bother w/ pH in soil) i personally think it makes a difference to start off at 6.5 for your water so nutrient availability is high off the jump without having to wait for the soil web to buffer it...?? might just be placebo tho too lol.

Click to expand...

I knocked down the pH to 6.0. Let's see what that does.

Thanks ayr0n.

cc2012 said:

Hi Camo, What Size Pots do you have them and? and do Pots have drainage holes? Have You popped One out(carefully) to check the Roots? I would Raise the Lights a little maybe another Inch(because they are so small) Also do You Bulbs on side or Tips facing down?
3 x 65w, but which? 2700K or 6400K Jiffy Lemon is great for lowering pH. most compost(inc seedling) has added Nutes, So maybe knock the "Jacks Classic" on the head till they a little bigger/older.

atb

Click to expand...

The pots are 3.5" x 3.5" and have drainage holes. There's plenty of room for the roots (I checked.) I raised the lights about two inches higher. One bulb is vertical. The others are horizontal. They are 6500K.

I dropped the pH with a tiny amount of white vinegar (Acetic Acid.) I'm not feeding them anything for a bit.

Thanks cc2012

Rarely does any weed need such a concoction as "water soluble plant food (20 20 20.)" in veg look to wards something like 6:3:3 and bud 3:3:6 otherwize you waste cash and burn babes,
but your real issue seems to be too cold ..note the red coloring on them leaf sets, look to your night temps as a start
to my blog: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/12-week-grow-sceneario-by-jorge-cervantas.30164/

Camoo: should understand this:
why cant I accurately measure the ph of my soil?
The soil(potting mix) itself acts as a buffer between the roots of your plants and the nutes you have feed your plants
a halfway zone, attempting to measure this buffer is seen as crazy with soil growers, as it acts as above as a buffer
for this reason, this half way zone(unlike dwc guys) is forever changing, often with accurate ph testing, soil can change as much as 1.5 clicks just in 6 hours of the plant in the sun feeding, as the plant feeds, the plant changes its exacerbate to suit its feeding requirements, like you boofing down a burger fries and beer, you too change your excerbate(or digestive acid(sweat)) same with the plant but happens down deep at the root zone, ...bottomline is ..if you can grow mushrooms in a 2 year old mix ...you should be ok to grow canna in like 5-8 ph range is very tough other than when over fed
from here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/i-need-help-lowering-my-soil-ph.864462/#post-11422952

vostok said:

Rarely does any weed need such a concoction as "water soluble plant food (20 20 20.)" in veg look to wards something like 6:3:3 and bud 3:3:6 otherwize you waste cash and burn babes,
but your real issue seems to be too cold ..note the red coloring on them leaf sets, look to your night temps as a start
to my blog: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/12-week-grow-sceneario-by-jorge-cervantas.30164/

one old should understand this:
why cant I accurately measure the ph of my soil?
The soil(potting mix) itself acts as a buffer between the roots of your plants and the nutes you have feed your plants
a halfway zone, attempting to measure this buffer is seen as crazy with soil growers, as it acts as above as a buffer
for this reason, this half way zone(unlike dwc guys) is forever changing, often with accurate ph testing, soil can change as much as 1.5 clicks just in 6 hours of the plant in the sun feeding, as the plant feeds, the plant changes its exacerbate to suit its feeding requirements, like you boofing down a burger fries and beer, you too change your excerbate(or digestive acid(sweat)) same with the plant but happens down deep at the root zone, ...bottomline is ..if you can grow mushrooms in a 2 year old mix ...you should be ok to grow canna in like 5-8 ph range is very tough other than when over fed
from here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/i-need-help-lowering-my-soil-ph.864462/#post-11422952

Click to expand...

Thanks vostok. I've a shitload to learn !

Hmm,,,,,I'll bet their doing just right time wise....that's how they look to me!
Jack's ??? OUCH! Stop with the Jack's and wait a few weeks before starting it again!!!! The 20-20-20 is way off the proper NPK for MM.... so if you do go back to Jacks, cut it to around 20% of what they say per gallon,,,OK?
More light,,,,,,,GOOD......

pHing soil is a waste of time. Soil self ph's! To be sure you have nice active Bio's in that soil,,,,,maybe add a "zyme" product to your feedings at say 1-2 times a week to supplement the one's in place (best to use some with the use of ANY synthetic feed).

YES kiddies, I'm home. Everything went well in Holland and I'm looking forward to running some of the new "strain" (still not named) this summer as space is cleared in the rotation....pic's and name will be posted then. The final test run was a great success! We were all VERY pleased.

Doc

Dr. Who said:

Hmm,,,,,I'll bet their doing just right time wise....that's how they look to me!
Jack's ??? OUCH! Stop with the Jack's and wait a few weeks before starting it again!!!! The 20-20-20 is way off the proper NPK for MM.... so if you do go back to Jacks, cut it to around 20% of what they say per gallon,,,OK?
More light,,,,,,,GOOD......

pHing soil is a waste of time. Soil self ph's! To be sure you have nice active Bio's in that soil,,,,,maybe add a "zyme" product to your feedings at say 1-2 times a week to supplement the one's in place (best to use some with the use of ANY synthetic feed).

YES kiddies, I'm home. Everything is went well in Holland and I'm looking forward to running some of the new "strain" (still not named) this summer as space is cleared in the rotation....pic's and name will be posted then. The final test run was a great success! We were all VERY pleased.

Doc

Click to expand...

I promise to stop doddering over the damn things and no more Jack's.

Thanks Doc

UPDATE:

I determined that my water pH was 7.5 and adjusted down to 6.0 with some white vinegar. I added a second humidifier and raised the CFL height about two inches.

I added a bit of "Superthrive" to their water and I'm not using Jacks feed any longer. I'll get some feed at a very cool local store I discovered.

The plants seem to have perked up and have grown a bit.

Woah... That is crazy slow growth for 3 weeks.

Most of this has been said I think but....

Do you have them in a humidity dome? I use this one with a seedling heatmat in the bottom to germ in the lil round peat pellets. I put TGA base soil in the bottom of the "cone" then the peat pellet with the seed in it on top. For clones I use lil square pots(2" I think?) with cubes and soil in the same way.

I usually leave my seedlings in that until they are too tall for the dome and just mist a few times a day and keep the peat moist. At that point I'll put in a solo cup with holes in the bottom or into a #1 size pot.

Don't worry about PH as long as you are using soil, add some dolomite if it doesn't already contain any.

Some of them look a lil over watered maybe so maybe cut back a lil, you only need to keep the soil moist, seedlings don't need a ton of water.

And they def don't need any nutes so I would hold of on that. I usually give them only artisan well water till they are actual plants.

I notice in your pic they are on a reflective surface, you don't want light reflecting up to the underside of the leaves.

I've never used CFLs but you certainly don't need a 600 MH for veg unless you plan on vegging some rather large plants. And you def don't want to put tiny seedlings under such a strong light. I would wait till they are like 3"-5" before putting under an HID.

AlGore said:

Woah... That is crazy slow growth for 3 weeks.

Most of this has been said I think but....

Do you have them in a humidity dome? I use this one with a seedling heatmat in the bottom to germ in the lil round peat pellets. I usually leave my seedlings in that until they are too tall for the dome and just mist a few times a day and keep the peat moist. At that point I'll put in a solo cup with holes in the bottom or into a #1 size pot.

Don't worry about PH as long as you are using soil, add some dolomite if it doesn't already contain any.

Some of them look a lil over watered maybe so maybe cut back a lil, you only need to keep the soil moist, seedlings don't need a ton of water.

And they def don't need any nutes so I would hold of on that. I usually give them only artisan well water till they are actual plants.

I notice in your pic they are on a reflective surface, you don't want light reflecting up to the underside of the leaves.

I've never used CFLs but you certainly don't need a 600 MH for veg unless you plan on vegging some rather large plants. And you def don't want to put tiny seedlings under such a strong light. I would wait till they are like 3"-5" before putting under an HID.

Click to expand...

Hello Al

I don't have a dome but the air is 80% humidity in my grow box. I have two humidifiers in it.

I don't think I'm over watering but I'm going to let them dry out well before I water them again. No nutes for a while, for sure.

I wasn't aware of the problem of reflected light under the leaves. I've gotten ride of the Mylar under them.

I really hope they grow into useable plants. I've put a lot of effort (too much ?) into the grow.

I won't give up !

Thank you.

Yea, you want reflection everywhere but the floor usually. I'm of the opinion that a matte white surface is better than a metallic one btw, mylar needs to be perfectly flat and can create hotspots.

80% is perfect for little plants but what are your temps like? Seedlings like warm air and soil. You might just need a heat mat.

Temperature is a problem. Soil temps under the lights (18/6) are in the 70F range. When the lights are off it drops into the mid 60's.

I live in the Northeast.

lights on 24/0 and no more temp drops. and faster growth.

I put a heating pad under four of my seedlings as an experiment. Is 24/0 something I should consider ?