AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
I've been reading and learning as much as I can and doing a little organic growing here and there when I have time. I know there has been many debates on this forum about organic vs non organic, but what are the real facts that make these claims from both sides truth and not personal opinion.. Because we all know opinions are not facts. I think we all can agree on one thing, by the time the plant uses the elements, either organic or salts, it is taking up the exact same elements right down to the molecular structure. So how can some people claim that organic tastes and smells better when it's the same exact nutrient for the plant? Could it be additives such as fulvic and the like that are used more by organic growers? Maybe when the proper additives are applied, both organic or not organic, they would be exactly the same? I found a good article about why organic isn't the healthier route to go and it was very interesting. It comes down to refinement. Organic can not be refined and leaves harmful impurities while refined non organic all of the impurities are taken out and your left with only healthy stuff. So, by that fact alone I can make the statement that organic maynot be a healthier route to take. I'm not saying that if someone slams nutes down a hydroponic plants throat that the organic wouldn't be better, because it would.. But I also think if properly dialed in, hydroponic growing can be just as good or better and healthier than organic if grown properly. Here is a copy and paste from an article I read mentioning the harmful impurities of organic.
*Here are just a few examples of some of the impurities I am referring to for those interested:
Mined phosphate (unrefined) contains excessive amounts of fluoride, a substance that is good for dental health in small quantities, but which is harmful to humans in excess.Mined phosphate often contains small amounts of radioactive elements such as radium (which release the ever feared radon gas), which is unsurprisingly also not good for human health. Chloride, a substance also permitted in organic cultivation, while naturally mined, is not good for plants or soil depending on the quantity. Many soils used by organic farmers are also rich in selenium, which can accumulate in plant tissue and produce (which you then eat, and it starts accumulating in you).
When refined, the good parts of these "natural" gardening products are retained, while the above listed impurities (plus a laundry list of others) are all removed entirely. Unfortunately, to be organic you are not allowed to refine these impurities out of your fertilizer or soil solutions. Hydroponics of course uses quality refined nutrients which contain all of the good parts, with none of the bad parts, but we will touch more on that in a second.
"The Western Fertilizer Handbook, an important resource for American farmers, points out that many gastro-intestinal illnesses can be traced back to manures used in organically grown crops. In the summer of 1995, a serious outbreak of salmonella poisoning resulted from an organic cantaloupe crop growing in soil fertilized with fresh chicken manure. The rinds of the melons had become contaminated and the bacteria caused serious intestinal illness for many consumers."
Why Hydroponics Than?
Hydroponics accomplishes all of the main goals set out by organic farmers, but takes it a step further to a level which is frankly impossible to ever accomplish with soil gardening of any variety.
With hydroponics for example, we grow in water and do not use any amount of soil. Thus, soil erosion is an issue which is eradicated entirely.
When it comes to nutrients, unrefined mineral salts and animal-meal products don't dissolve well in water, therefore we use high quality refined nutrients which are soluble in water. That means none of the baddies listed above are present in our fertilizers. Data from Europe, Israel, Canada, Australia, and the United States have defined precise combinations of minerals for a variety of crops. In fact, in hydroponics we have nutrients down to such a science that when we list what elements are contained in a fertilizer product, they are measured in mS (millisiemens) and uS (microsiemens), a system of measuring by electrical conductivity and calculation BY ATOMIC WEIGHT.
All of this really helps to illuminate why hydroponics are the superior way of food production; you get to have near complete control of the environment in which the plant grows, therefore you can target it with specific nutrients, light spectrums, and regulate everything that comes into contact with the plant, all while using natural products and saving the planet in a way organic farming methods never could.
Saving the planet?
That's right. As a planet, we face a variety of obstacles in our near future. This is why so many people are going "green" and trying to do things in a more sustainable way which will have less of a profound impact on the planet going forward. What does hydroponics have to offer?
90% less water: Hydroponics grows plants in water, not soil. Because of the controlled environment, and due to the fact that we can continually supplement water with nutrients which will not be lost to the depths of the earth as soon as we pour it on our roots, we are able to conserve this very precious resource that allows all life to be sustained. Wikipedia puts it well:The water stays in the system and can be reused - thus, a lower water requirement.It is possible to control the nutrition levels in their entirety - thus, lower nutrition requirementsNo nutrition pollution is released into the environment because of the controlled system.
Healthier Food, And More Of It
Since you have complete control of the growing environment and the nutrients which your plants will be exposed to, it is trivially easy to produce plants which simply outperform their soil grown counterparts in both flavor and nutrition. The simple fact of the matter is that produce grown via hydroponics has a higher amount of nutrients, and it tastes better. Period.
In 1994 a test was commissioned by an investment group to determine the vitamin and mineral content of hydroponically grown crops in comparison to soil grown crops, both organic and nonorganic. Plant Research Technologies Laboratory in San Jose,California, analyzed tomatoes and sweet peppers; those hydroponically grown used General Hydroponics' "Flora" nutrients. The hydroponic produce showed a significant increase in vitamins and minerals beneficial to human health over the soilgrown produce. This data indicates the importance of a calibrated nutrient solution. The crops had been grown following the Dutch recommendation for hydroponic tomatoes and sweet peppers, and not only were they of higher nutritional value, the flavor was reported to be outstanding.
The hydroponic crops were further analyzed to search for chemicals on the EPA’s "priority pollutant list", of which, none were found.
Couple this with the fact that hydroponics indisputably has higher yields than it's soil grown counterparts, and you are left with the realization that you simply get WAY more (and way healthier) food in a smaller space than you do with soil."
I know that was a lot to read, but there are many good points made and facts to back it up. Now I'm not one of those people that say hydroponics rules and organics are pointless! I like to grow both ways, but I feel the need to discuss why there is such a big crowd of people that claim hydroponics sucks and doesn't even compare to the taste and smell, etc. of organically grown. Do any of you organic growers have facts about this? Or is it all just personal preference? I love the dank nugs, organic or not, but if the same plant was grown, one organically and perfectly dialed in, and the other hydroponically and perfectly dialed in, I can not tell the difference. The only thing I've noticed is the bud structure is sometimes different, i guess do to the fact that it's grown in different mediums and different root size, ect.
I will probably get a lot of hate for this, but that's not what I intended, I just want to get to the bottom of this organic craze going on and want to know the facts that go with it, not opinions.
If you made it to the end of this post bravo, I know many of you will skim through and miss a lot of the points that were brought up in the info I quoted just to battle your opinions, but I'm ready for some facts. Thanks.
*Here are just a few examples of some of the impurities I am referring to for those interested:
Mined phosphate (unrefined) contains excessive amounts of fluoride, a substance that is good for dental health in small quantities, but which is harmful to humans in excess.Mined phosphate often contains small amounts of radioactive elements such as radium (which release the ever feared radon gas), which is unsurprisingly also not good for human health. Chloride, a substance also permitted in organic cultivation, while naturally mined, is not good for plants or soil depending on the quantity. Many soils used by organic farmers are also rich in selenium, which can accumulate in plant tissue and produce (which you then eat, and it starts accumulating in you).
When refined, the good parts of these "natural" gardening products are retained, while the above listed impurities (plus a laundry list of others) are all removed entirely. Unfortunately, to be organic you are not allowed to refine these impurities out of your fertilizer or soil solutions. Hydroponics of course uses quality refined nutrients which contain all of the good parts, with none of the bad parts, but we will touch more on that in a second.
"The Western Fertilizer Handbook, an important resource for American farmers, points out that many gastro-intestinal illnesses can be traced back to manures used in organically grown crops. In the summer of 1995, a serious outbreak of salmonella poisoning resulted from an organic cantaloupe crop growing in soil fertilized with fresh chicken manure. The rinds of the melons had become contaminated and the bacteria caused serious intestinal illness for many consumers."
Why Hydroponics Than?
Hydroponics accomplishes all of the main goals set out by organic farmers, but takes it a step further to a level which is frankly impossible to ever accomplish with soil gardening of any variety.
With hydroponics for example, we grow in water and do not use any amount of soil. Thus, soil erosion is an issue which is eradicated entirely.
When it comes to nutrients, unrefined mineral salts and animal-meal products don't dissolve well in water, therefore we use high quality refined nutrients which are soluble in water. That means none of the baddies listed above are present in our fertilizers. Data from Europe, Israel, Canada, Australia, and the United States have defined precise combinations of minerals for a variety of crops. In fact, in hydroponics we have nutrients down to such a science that when we list what elements are contained in a fertilizer product, they are measured in mS (millisiemens) and uS (microsiemens), a system of measuring by electrical conductivity and calculation BY ATOMIC WEIGHT.
All of this really helps to illuminate why hydroponics are the superior way of food production; you get to have near complete control of the environment in which the plant grows, therefore you can target it with specific nutrients, light spectrums, and regulate everything that comes into contact with the plant, all while using natural products and saving the planet in a way organic farming methods never could.
Saving the planet?
That's right. As a planet, we face a variety of obstacles in our near future. This is why so many people are going "green" and trying to do things in a more sustainable way which will have less of a profound impact on the planet going forward. What does hydroponics have to offer?
90% less water: Hydroponics grows plants in water, not soil. Because of the controlled environment, and due to the fact that we can continually supplement water with nutrients which will not be lost to the depths of the earth as soon as we pour it on our roots, we are able to conserve this very precious resource that allows all life to be sustained. Wikipedia puts it well:The water stays in the system and can be reused - thus, a lower water requirement.It is possible to control the nutrition levels in their entirety - thus, lower nutrition requirementsNo nutrition pollution is released into the environment because of the controlled system.
Healthier Food, And More Of It
Since you have complete control of the growing environment and the nutrients which your plants will be exposed to, it is trivially easy to produce plants which simply outperform their soil grown counterparts in both flavor and nutrition. The simple fact of the matter is that produce grown via hydroponics has a higher amount of nutrients, and it tastes better. Period.
In 1994 a test was commissioned by an investment group to determine the vitamin and mineral content of hydroponically grown crops in comparison to soil grown crops, both organic and nonorganic. Plant Research Technologies Laboratory in San Jose,California, analyzed tomatoes and sweet peppers; those hydroponically grown used General Hydroponics' "Flora" nutrients. The hydroponic produce showed a significant increase in vitamins and minerals beneficial to human health over the soilgrown produce. This data indicates the importance of a calibrated nutrient solution. The crops had been grown following the Dutch recommendation for hydroponic tomatoes and sweet peppers, and not only were they of higher nutritional value, the flavor was reported to be outstanding.
The hydroponic crops were further analyzed to search for chemicals on the EPA’s "priority pollutant list", of which, none were found.
Couple this with the fact that hydroponics indisputably has higher yields than it's soil grown counterparts, and you are left with the realization that you simply get WAY more (and way healthier) food in a smaller space than you do with soil."
I know that was a lot to read, but there are many good points made and facts to back it up. Now I'm not one of those people that say hydroponics rules and organics are pointless! I like to grow both ways, but I feel the need to discuss why there is such a big crowd of people that claim hydroponics sucks and doesn't even compare to the taste and smell, etc. of organically grown. Do any of you organic growers have facts about this? Or is it all just personal preference? I love the dank nugs, organic or not, but if the same plant was grown, one organically and perfectly dialed in, and the other hydroponically and perfectly dialed in, I can not tell the difference. The only thing I've noticed is the bud structure is sometimes different, i guess do to the fact that it's grown in different mediums and different root size, ect.
I will probably get a lot of hate for this, but that's not what I intended, I just want to get to the bottom of this organic craze going on and want to know the facts that go with it, not opinions.
If you made it to the end of this post bravo, I know many of you will skim through and miss a lot of the points that were brought up in the info I quoted just to battle your opinions, but I'm ready for some facts. Thanks.
) 
(The squerl showed me the way!)