Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread
- Thread starter headtreep
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Rrog
Well-Known Member
Still working it out. Classic 1/3 aeration, 1/3 humus, 1/3 "fill" I'd like to use almost completed leaf mold instead of peat, but availability means you have to plan ahead to make it. I like the idea of incorporating more leaves and their locked up nutrients in the soil.
Biochar is part of the aeration package, along with lava rock. No lava rock here in MI, but i have two pallets of it, so that's my ticket. I make it now in 55 gallon TLUDs. I wish we could recycle glass into puffed stone here in michigan. Like the "Growstones" product. The biochar is a great small aeration material. Breaks down slowly, so stays an aeration amendment for a while. I like larger aeration up to 1-2" in addition, which is the role of the lava rock. I'm going to test a high biochar soil with standard small char 1/4"- 1", but also up to 2". No lava in this case. Likely 30% by volume in the test pot BUT maybe 75% on that volume is from big pieces, nit the fines. So less surface area. I'm curious and optimistic. Obviously I love aeration- all soft Geopots for me.
Humus is aged manure and worm castings.
The amendments will be local. Many N sources like alfalfa as top dressing and drench amendments.
For pest control, local bug exoskeletons. Dead mealworms, etc for Chitin-eating bacteria. Then Nematodes and BTI together. Not looking at Neem as a preventative. Would deploy if needed, however I've had great luck with just the little critters.
Vermicompost is at the core, because as simple as the recipe sounds, my own vermicompost will add a depth of goodness you can't get in a bag. The VC is itself very complex, but they're doing all the work.
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Mary's Confidant
Well-Known Member
Doesn't all of this coconut water and aloe get expensive?
DonBrennon
Well-Known Member
For aloe.......buy a plant and grow it, it's so easy and you''ll love it, divide it up, make more plants............then it's free. Coconut powder or water varies............I get a 1.5L bottle for £2/$3, I can't use all that on my plants before it will go off....... so guess what, I drink it, it's so f-in good for you, not just the plants, try it ................................... edit - 100% pure coconut water......not what's on the picture above
DonBrennon
Well-Known Member
The label is a total contradiction....................................it say "100% Raw coconut water", then lists coffee extract as an ingredient
I've never heard of anyone using coffee extract as a fert, might be interesting to see the results.........I'd expect nitrogen toxicity though.
DonBrennon
Well-Known Member
aaawwwwww shit, now I want you to try it and post your results pmsl, imagine if you've accidentally found the ultimate growth stimulant, pure coconut water with added nitrogen and caffeine,................do it...........pmsl............or try it on something not so important (eg throw away spare cutting, tomato plant, house plant etc)
Al Yamoni
Well-Known Member
The coconut water is tasty and I drink the majority of it.. I have a plant that is crazy nitrogen hungry in week 4 of bloom so I guess I will use it on her in the name of science. The aloe grows itself in my house. Sometimes I forget she's there, she's too easy to please.
Michigan Med Creamery
Member
Michigan baked blue clay does wonders for drainage just gotta sieve it.
Michigan Med Creamery
Member
Rrog i found this out with my latest outdoor grow i had too many out there and only carried a bail of pro mix and few amends... i wish i had room to make all my own soils... but i dont... anyway i predug holes etc... the plant roots grew larger than the prehole... thus makin it threw the clay around these holes... i grew same strain indoor and outdoor... called black cherry... lets just put it this way the outdoor was gone first and my indoor is pretty decent stuff but i aint tootin horn here just throwin out info.. anyway i brought home shovel slices of this clay baked it up and it crumbles up pretty decent so big chunks i would suggest to cut to size of chunk needed while wet then bake... or crush and sieze like i do... or whateva 
littlejacob
Well-Known Member
Bonjour
What container size minimum for one plant in rolls?
I was in 3gl and I realise that there is almost only roots in the pots...I guess that is why you all use large pots or containers!
So maybe 7/8gl mini...and what to use
to change the old roots into new food?
CU
What container size minimum for one plant in rolls?
I was in 3gl and I realise that there is almost only roots in the pots...I guess that is why you all use large pots or containers!
So maybe 7/8gl mini...and what to use
to change the old roots into new food?
CU
Howard i know
Member
Michigan Med Creamery
Member
One plant in rolls? What do u mean by rolls?
DonBrennon
Well-Known Member
The clue is in the thread title, rols, he just added an extra 'l'
Mary's Confidant
Well-Known Member
Another attempt for some feedback on a first mix for ROLS. As I understand it, most of you let it bake for 2-4 weeks, is this correct? How would you go about mixing the above?
elkamino
Well-Known Member
Hello! I believe many people mix/age it many different ways, but you may want to start on P1 of this thread. There's LOTS of super useful info in the first many pages, including this incredible post (#14) by Cann...
So even though this thread is about soil recycling, I figured I would show the process of soil building from scratch. I find "recycling" to be a silly term anyway, reamending makes more sense...regardless, the "recycling" process is simply adding amendments to a soil base - which also happens to be the second part of building a soil from scratch, so it all applies. Hope that makes sense.
Building a soil from scratch is much cheaper and much more rewarding than buying premixed soil. Also the quality is incomparable.
First off, we have to decide on a soil mix. There are countless mixes out there all claiming to be better than the next one...I prefer to go with a mix that I know is tried and true by a wise old coot. The mix is as follows
Base mix:
1/3 high quality EWC or compost (the quality of this humus source cannot be stressed enough. this is by far the most important aspect of the soil. use poor humus and this will be a nightmare)
1/3 sphagnum peat
1/3 aeration (pumice, rice hulls, lava rock, etc.)
Per cuft of base:
4-5 cups rock dust mix (4x glacial, 1x bentonite, 1x powdered oyster shell, 1x basalt dust) AFAIK the glacial and basalt are relatively interchangeable ..just use whatever is local (this goes for just about anything in ROLS...local is often best).
1/2 cup neem meal and/or karanja meal
1/2 cup crab shell meal
1/2 cup kelp meal
Thats it...
if you want to get fancy with it you can add a few other things such as:
Gypsum: I use 1/2cup per cuft...calcium and sulfur. good to add if you don't have the highest quality EWC.
Biochar: up to 10% of the mix, remember to "activate" it first by soaking in EWC/fish hydrolysate or something for the carbon to absorb so it doesn't rob your soil of nutrients. I use about 1/2 cup per cuft, but could easily double that amount.
Alfalfa meal: in the mix pictured I used 2 cups alfalfa meal for a 10cuft batch...you can use more if you want. it is very "hot", so be careful.
Fish meal: I had some leftover so I threw the last cup worth into the 10cuft batch
A note on humus: If you can't find any local worm farmers with castings, or folks with good compost, look for Bu's Blend Biodynamic by Malibu Compost. It is one of the best bagged products you will find, and has a great reputation with real gardeners. Bu's blend is what I used for this last batch...I would've used EWC but my local worm guy is out at the moment, and my bins are a month of two from being harvested
A note on sphagnum: peat comes in compressed bricks that are usually around 3 cuft. once you open and expand the bricks they are around 5 cuft of material, so keep that in mind when measuring. Also, often times the peat is very dry and tends to have hydrophobic tendencies. This can make saturating your soil a pain. To combat this, you should rehydrate the peat before mixing it with the other components. Once it is moist (not wet), you can proceed like normal.
Here we go:
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Step 1: Humus + (hydrated) Peat + Aeration
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Step 2: Mix thoroughly with hands and bare feet while humming a tune....
Now its time to add amendments. From this point on its basically the "recycling" process, although you wouldn't want to add nearly as many amendments during a "recycle". The soil you would be "recycling" would already contain many nutrients, whereas the current base mix we have just prepared only contains a small percentage of compost, and the rest is inert. Big difference in the amount of input needed to make a balanced soil. Anyways.....
Step 3: The rock dusts
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Step 4: The meals
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Step 5: Repeat Step 2..but more vigorously, and for a greater length of time, and humming a more intense tune. This is what you should end up with:
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Fill up smartpots or garbage bins, water with an ACT or .25% molasses dilution in water, let sit for 4+ weeks. At that point you are ready to fill your no-till pots and start reaping the rewards! Or if you are a boss you can fill your no-till pots from the get-go, water them, throw some worms in the mix, and then let sit for 4 weeks and plant..that will give the soil a head start to develop microbe populations, fungal networks, etc.
To show some results, at exactly 4 weeks I filled a 30 gallon smartpot with the pictured soil mix, and transplanted these ladies into it. They were a bit unhappy in their old pots (they had been living in roots 707 that i topdressed a bit to heavily with neem, crab, and kelp) and it is obvious from the pics that they are much happier now in their no-till home. These are 2 days apart, first one taken immediately after transplant.
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Lets see how many cycles I can get out of this baby...
Organicgrow42
Well-Known Member
The diatomaceous earth should not be mixed in. Use it only on top layer of soil, everything else, depending on how much u r using, sound fine. No experience w the grows tone though
Howard i know
Member
is there a good pastis LJ?
Howard i know
Member
Isn't potassium the main form of lethal injection in the states? Can't be a good thing having too much of it swimming about in the soil.....
Organicgrow42
Well-Known Member
I'm making a new soil mix today. My old mix contained at least 20 ingredients. I feel somewhere along the way, I had to have added too much or little of something and now I'm having issues.
I'm looking for something simple. Under 10 ingredients. Trying to keep it simple stupid. I'm not going to list everything I have but can probably make just about anything (besides exotics)
Who here can help me out with a simple but effective mix that doesn't need a bunch of top dressings or teas. I tried looking through this thread and found it just kept getting more and more complicated.
I know people have a simple mix that works great.
Also, most mixes are for flower I feel, anyone have any mix they use in VEG? Or through out the whole life cycle of the plant?
So here is what I was thinking of just doing:
1/3 peat
1/3 EWC
1/3 perlite
This will be my base for VEG in 1 gallons. When they go to FLOWER, I switch to 5 gallons (I have height restrictions) and can use an amended soil mix that I will be "cooking" for about a month.
So I'm looking for thoughts on this simple VEG mix and looking for and new FLOWER mix. Thanks and appreciate the comments guys!
I'm looking for something simple. Under 10 ingredients. Trying to keep it simple stupid. I'm not going to list everything I have but can probably make just about anything (besides exotics)
Who here can help me out with a simple but effective mix that doesn't need a bunch of top dressings or teas. I tried looking through this thread and found it just kept getting more and more complicated.
I know people have a simple mix that works great.
Also, most mixes are for flower I feel, anyone have any mix they use in VEG? Or through out the whole life cycle of the plant?
So here is what I was thinking of just doing:
1/3 peat
1/3 EWC
1/3 perlite
This will be my base for VEG in 1 gallons. When they go to FLOWER, I switch to 5 gallons (I have height restrictions) and can use an amended soil mix that I will be "cooking" for about a month.
So I'm looking for thoughts on this simple VEG mix and looking for and new FLOWER mix. Thanks and appreciate the comments guys!