Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[Joedank]

The fungal hyphae are big for sure, but spores go airborne. I see a few mycorrhizal studies online where they had to take steps to keep their tests from being contaminated by airborne mycorrhizal spores

man you zen approch leaves alot to be desired...
this may be true for some fruiting bodies in damp areas...but glomus and others are pretty rare in nature hence there value ...
thank you for calling him out on that bullshit @Pattahabi . in such a nice way too...
i use mycos for the estamated 30% yeild increase and cuz with cover crops inccoulatiuon lasts forever

 

[Joedank]

Maybe I'm alone in thinking like this, but to me organics should be simple and inexpensive. There are no SST's, coconut water, etc in nature. It's all about the compost IMO. Get that right and the plants will excel in spite of whatever else it is we're doing.

Leaf mold/coco coir/peat, home made vermicompost, and the usual amendments. I don't see the need for anything beyond that. Not to say that the other stuff will hurt anything, I just don't find that the juice is worth the squeeze. I have 3 young kids, and I'm self employed. I really don't have the time to be brewing up teas and driving all over the place sourcing ingredients. Simple is what I'm after, and it seems to be working well.

gosh i hope someday i can feel this way . one hit of guano top dress and i go shoooooot that went BOOM and i am making teas again thinking i am "helping the plant " i am working tward a 'COMPLETE" vermicompost but it takes good compost food for them to make it IMO...

 

[st0wandgrow]

man you zen approch leaves alot to be desired...
this may be true for some fruiting bodies in damp areas...but glomus and others are pretty rare in nature hence there value ...
thank you for calling him out on that bullshit @Pattahabi . in such a nice way too...
i use mycos for the estamated 30% yeild increase and cuz with cover crops inccoulatiuon lasts forever

I think it depends on circumstance Joe. I haven't researched whether the myco spores are airborne, so I won't comment on that, but adding mycorrhizal spores to the root zone isn't a necessity IMO. The main role they play is to colonize roots and spread out helping the plant access nutrients from a large area. In a 10 gallon container I feel pretty confident that the plant can access what I've put in there all on it's own. For someone like you growing in huge containers in a greenhouse, or in the ground outdoors, I can see the benefit. For me, not so much.

 

[st0wandgrow]

gosh i hope someday i can feel this way . one hit of guano top dress and i go shoooooot that went BOOM and i am making teas again thinking i am "helping the plant " i am working tward a 'COMPLETE" vermicompost but it takes good compost food for them to make it IMO...

You and I are doing two different things. Like I mentioned above, you are growing trees. I'm growing tiny plants in comparison. If I were in your shoes I might have a different outlook.

 

[Joedank]

I think it depends on circumstance Joe. I haven't researched whether the myco spores are airborne, so I won't comment on that, but adding mycorrhizal spores to the root zone isn't a necessity IMO. The main role they play is to colonize roots and spread out helping the plant access nutrients from a large area. In a 10 gallon container I feel pretty confident that the plant can access what I've put in there all on it's own. For someone like you growing in huge containers in a greenhouse, or in the ground outdoors, I can see the benefit. For me, not so much.

that was what i thought until i read that rodale report . the fruiting bodies are mushrooms so the spores you put in only "grow bigger" if they fruit it is really cool and yea they can REALLY fly but in 8 yrs thats only happened once to me. the studies with basil and the oil increases really inspired me to invest in "growing" hype as much as i can . The Koren farming idea that "good" soil has 300hyphe per slide and "great" soil tons more ... i am on a mission to get fungus all over my roots and family as we are fueled by them ....

 

[Joedank]

You and I are doing two different things. Like I mentioned above, you are growing trees. I'm growing tiny plants in comparison. If I were in your shoes I might have a different outlook.

i got very few leaves here if i had yards of leafmold adding hyphe would be unessacary.
you innoculate locally everytime you add leaf mold . shoot i am gonna laef mold my canna leaves instead of bokashi..
thanks stow

 

[st0wandgrow]

i got very few leaves here if i had yards of leafmold adding hyphe would be unessacary.
you innoculate locally everytime you add leaf mold . shoot i am gonna laef mold my canna leaves instead of bokashi..
thanks stow

This is true. The leaf mold is a cold/fungal composting process, so my containers are filled with fungi as it is. Good point.

 

[Joedank]

This is true. The leaf mold is a cold/fungal composting process, so my containers are filled with fungi as it is. Good point.

You and I are doing two different things. Like I mentioned above, you are growing trees. I'm growing tiny plants in comparison. If I were in your shoes I might have a different outlook.

you are right here and i will limit myself in this thread from now on .
most folks here are in closed systems indoors i have that but it is not my focus at all .
my methods are mostly outdoor/ greenhouse 6-10 month old plants in organic stone based soil .... i should add a disclaimer to my shit .
thanks again for keeping realz
sorry to anyone i spewed my greenhouse tech on

 

[4ftRoots]

Maybe I'm alone in thinking like this, but to me organics should be simple and inexpensive. There are no SST's, coconut water, etc in nature. It's all about the compost IMO. Get that right and the plants will excel in spite of whatever else it is we're doing.

Leaf mold/coco coir/peat, home made vermicompost, and the usual amendments. I don't see the need for anything beyond that. Not to say that the other stuff will hurt anything, I just don't find that the juice is worth the squeeze. I have 3 young kids, and I'm self employed. I really don't have the time to be brewing up teas and driving all over the place sourcing ingredients. Simple is what I'm after, and it seems to be working well.

All im saying is there is always room for improvement. Those buds look amazingly healthy and beautiful. My motto is if you have time to topdress compost why not add the enzymes to kick start the feeding. I know for a fact my buds are bigger and frostier with an SST but maybe my compost is a little off. I'd still bet your buds would be equal if not better than mine though, SST or not.

 

[st0wandgrow]

you are right here and i will limit myself in this thread from now on .
most folks here are in closed systems indoors i have that but it is not my focus at all .
my methods are mostly outdoor/ greenhouse 6-10 month old plants in organic stone based soil .... i should add a disclaimer to my shit .
thanks again for keeping realz
sorry to anyone i spewed my greenhouse tech on

Screw that. I'm always interested to read about what you're doing. Shit, I'd love to get to the point you're at and be growing monster plants in a greenhouse. Keep it coming... I'm taking notes for when that day arrives!

 

[st0wandgrow]

All im saying is there is always room for improvement. Those buds look amazingly healthy and beautiful. My motto is if you have time to topdress compost why not add the enzymes to kick start the feeding. I know for a fact my buds are bigger and frostier with an SST but maybe my compost is a little off. I'd still bet your buds would be equal if not better than mine though, SST or not.

I could be wrong. I'm basing this 100% on anecdotal, subjective stuff. Just the eyeball test. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I just don't want to be doing this at the expense of my kids.... and that's what was starting to happen.

My wife hollering from upstairs: "honey, come look at the kids playing catch in the back yard"

Me: "hold on, I'm making a compost tea, and then I have to strain the corn kernels out of my SST. Give me 20 minutes"

 

[4ftRoots]

I could be wrong. I'm basing this 100% on anecdotal, subjective stuff. Just the eyeball test. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I just don't want to be doing this at the expense of my kids.... and that's what was starting to happen.

My wife hollering from upstairs: "honey, come look at the kids playing catch in the back yard"

Me: "hold on, I'm making a compost tea, and then I have to strain the corn kernels out of my SST. Give me 20 minutes"

I don't want to seem like a religous organic man. I totally see your side. Family comes first and I appreciate your priority is your family. Maybe one day when I have a family I'll be very KISS. Righteous!

 

[Midwest Weedist]

So your saying high humidy is attracting mites? That would make sense because my room is always dialed in with VPD in mind. Why would they come to a place with high RH?

No, I think the rh is just one of the key variables to creating the ideal environment for their procreation. Maybe that's some more to do with the clovers and what they do in higher rh environments, maybe it's more to do with the mites and their environmental preference, I'm not sure at all. It's just my experience that rh has to be relatively high for them to colonize. I've had house plants forever, even since I was a teenager, and have never had mites (that I know of) until my last move into an apartment. Which has surprisingly bad rh issues, super low in the winter and way too high the other 3 months.

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Feed your worms bat poo? I'm not sure how that would work though to be honest lol. Hopefully someone can elaborate on this idea.

gosh i hope someday i can feel this way . one hit of guano top dress and i go shoooooot that went BOOM and i am making teas again thinking i am "helping the plant " i am working tward a 'COMPLETE" vermicompost but it takes good compost food for them to make it IMO...

 

[Rrog]

Mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) produce sporocarps with spores.

Pretty much any root material has spores ready to go, as long as the root hasn't been sterilized.

I've never been a fan of ACT for the reasons St0w mentioned. Males compulsively tweak stuff. It's our nature, but not always necessary.

 

[4ftRoots]

Rrog what do you think of the product Modern Microbes at buildasoil?

http://buildasoil.com/products/modern-microbes

I'm not going to buy it of course but I am wondering if all those bacteria float around too. I am interested specifically in the Si solublizing microbes and would pay for those guys.

 

[Pattahabi]

The fungal hyphae are big for sure, but spores go airborne. I see a few mycorrhizal studies online where they had to take steps to keep their tests from being contaminated by airborne mycorrhizal spores

Hey Rrog, I did see this one on ecto. Not sure I'm sold on the description, but seems possible. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00572-008-0176-3

I've seen on this site and others that the spores don't really float around. Not sure it would be possible to multiply these in a BIM, but I'm often wrong.

http://www.biotechnica.co.uk/bioagronomy/science/mycorrhizae
Mycorrhizae are not spread by airborne spores, and when they have been depleted or destroyed they cannot return unless they are purposely replaced. Regular soil disturbance together with the widespread use of fungicides, herbicides and other chemical inputs has reduced mycorrhizal populations in agricultural soils significantly.

Either way not trying to call anyone out, I didn't realize they were airbourne at all.

man you zen approch leaves alot to be desired...
this may be true for some fruiting bodies in damp areas...but glomus and others are pretty rare in nature hence there value ...
thank you for calling him out on that bullshit @Pattahabi . in such a nice way too...
i use mycos for the estamated 30% yeild increase and cuz with cover crops inccoulatiuon lasts forever

Hey Joe (makes me want to play some Jimmy lol)! Personally, I like to add a mycorrhizal innoculant. Everyone places their own value on things. For me, I don't think twice about spending $25 on an innoculant that lasts me 6-8 months easy. I also don't have a wife and kids. So I agree, to me I see value, but again, not trying to call anyone out per say. I'm also curious if we can culture PNSB in a BIM. I read in one book this was a reason to buy em-1 instead of making your own, but I'm still looking for other sources.

On the topic of simplification per Stow, I have pretty much cut out ful-power and coconut powder out of my regimes. I do still like to bubble some ewc and a weekly sst. Just how I do it.

Peace!

P-

 

[Joedank]

Hey Rrog, I did see this one on ecto. Not sure I'm sold on the description, but seems possible. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00572-008-0176-3

I've seen on this site and others that the spores don't really float around. Not sure it would be possible to multiply these in a BIM, but I'm often wrong.

http://www.biotechnica.co.uk/bioagronomy/science/mycorrhizae
Mycorrhizae are not spread by airborne spores, and when they have been depleted or destroyed they cannot return unless they are purposely replaced. Regular soil disturbance together with the widespread use of fungicides, herbicides and other chemical inputs has reduced mycorrhizal populations in agricultural soils significantly.

Either way not trying to call anyone out, I didn't realize they were airbourne at all.


Hey Joe (makes me want to play some Jimmy lol)! Personally, I like to add a mycorrhizal innoculant. Everyone places their own value on things. For me, I don't think twice about spending $25 on an innoculant that lasts me 6-8 months easy. I also don't have a wife and kids. So I agree, to me I see value, but again, not trying to call anyone out per say. I'm also curious if we can culture PNSB in a BIM. I read in one book this was a reason to buy em-1 instead of making your own, but I'm still looking for other sources.

On the topic of simplification per Stow, I have pretty much cut out ful-power and coconut powder out of my regimes. I do still like to bubble some ewc and a weekly sst. Just how I do it.

Peace!

P-

quantum growth light PNSB
i am using it with lab an other ones ... WOW my tomatoes an carrots LOVE IT.
but thats one that is in our belly buttons supposidly.....tons of ways to air culture it . but the quantum really works in the field esp tagged to some ksil . just spent 20$ on harmless harvest cocowater man is it good some for me an some for the ladies

 

[Joedank]

Mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) produce sporocarps with spores.

Pretty much any root material has spores ready to go, as long as the root hasn't been sterilized.

I've never been a fan of ACT for the reasons St0w mentioned. Males compulsively tweak stuff. It's our nature, but not always necessary.

thanks to this i was lead to this :
Hi Ivo & Donia, ... et al
I wish it was always that easy... As per my above comments re Ectomycorrhizal, Ericoid & Orchid mycorrhizal fungi, it is possible to culture these Basidiomycete & Ascomycete fungi in artificial media & in the absence of a living plant 'host' (symbiont partner). These fungal groups reproduce sexually & may produce many 1,000,000s of spores from above ground or below ground fruiting bodies.
However, unfortunately Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) are asexual Zygomycete fungi & are also obligate biotrophic symbionts (i.e. .can't grow let alone reproduce without the presence of a suitable & living plant root partners); & they don't produce 'fruiting bodies' like mushrooms, puffballs, truffles etc ... AMF do however asexually produce relatively tiny sporocarps which contain very few spores. Evidence indicates the importance to AMF spores of bacterial communties living within AMF sporocarps, these bacteria are believed to be important co-symbionts of AMF spores. Some AMF species can contain 'vesicles' within plant roots, some of these may also contain AMF spores.
In aeroponically produced AMF inocula, it is relatively easy to collect 'extradical' spores, sporocarps & hyphae, & likewise root segments containing 'intra-radical' hyphae & spores. However, with soil-borne AMF & 'pot-cultures' it is usual to use 'wet-sieve' methods to separate & collect AMF inocula .... quite time consuming, but relatively low tech & very effective. As a general rule for AMF inocula collection, soil aggregates attached to host plant roots are more likely to contain AMF spores than in soils more distant from plant roots, thus there's a bit of an art involved in getting watering & soil moisture optimal for adhering to roots at harvest, rather than too dry & fragile.
AMF spore germination & root inoculation is most effective if spores are placed relatively close to roots of plants to be inoculated. Likewise viable AMF hyphae inocula needs to be fresh and placed in close proximity to potential symbiont plant roots. It is also possible inoculate plant roots with AMF hyphae placed on moist paper in a Petri dish, & to germinate AMF spores close to roots.
It is tempting to believe the marketing 'hype' about some commercial AMF & Ecto-M inocula, freeze dried fungal spores are very good / ok, (but are often mono-cultural strains), mycorrhizal fungal hyphae are best used fresh !!!
As per my previous message, for further details see free download PDFs from: http://aciar.gov.au/publication/MN032

FINALLY A way to culture !!! and the fruiting bodies i saw were not from my innoculates...
thanks rrog

 

[hyroot]

I got the 12 type of seeds mix from build a soil

Flax
Brown Clover
Yellow Sweet Clover
Duch Clover
Medium Red Clover
Crimson Lentils
Indainhead Safflower Hairy
Vetch Vetch
CommonRape
Dwarf Essex Buckwheat
Mancan Pea
Forage

I had to do a hard reset on my phone. So no pics on my phone. So I just grabbed a pic from my ig.