rarebreed619
Active Member
for the air exchange, picture yourself in a hot ass cramped room with no air circulation. would be pretty uncomfortable.
Quiet. The Neighbors Can Hear You (Sound Control Thread)
- Thread starter one2threeBUDS4
- Start date
Nice informative thread. Recently bought and mounted a 6"-500cfm Can Fan/carbon filter combo in an upstairs bedroom window only to discover far more of a rushing air sound than I expected would be audible outside from the second floor. I screwed a 4x4 3/4" plywood panel flush to the inside walls over the window inset and flush to the sill. This creates a stealth mini-plenum behind the closed Levelor blinds, leaving no visibly tell tale signs for snoopes who seem evermore on the prowl for brazen break-ins the cops care ever-less about if it's a MJ grow. The slider window is left open just an inch, allowing enough volume of air to pass outside unnoticed otherwise. It's still summer and not too unusual to hear a lot of close neighbors window A/C units buzzing. But once the weather turns and it gets quiet in those winter months the rushing air sound is bound to raise eyebrows, directing attention to an upstairs bedroom window open curiously in the cold dead of winter. I just moved to eastern Wa. and this now becomes more of an issue near the Ephrata/Moses Lake area where growers seem scarce, but the market is surprisingly hot. And wouldn't you know, a buzz-cut cop lives just 2 doors down. Am pricing silencers and plan on hanging everything bungee-style from the ceiling. Snuffing out sound and odor in slightly larger appt grows can be a real trick that discourages many from the adventure.
kiteflyer90
Member
I was a little paranoid of the sound when I first started my 6 inch fan but after a few weeks it seem to run a lot smoother and now I can barely hear it
East Coast
Well-Known Member
I only have one question on the above arrangement - Does the heat being pulled through the fan from the room and the lights cause the fan to run hot - potential fire problem?
Personally I would rather have the fan pushing air passed those heated devices for peace of mind.
East Coast
Well-Known Member
I was also thinking that any connection from the heat tube to the ducting should be made with ali tape and use ali / metal ducting. If the fan skips a beat or stops for what ever reason - those heat tubes will heat up and may cause plastic tape, cables ties to melt and start a little fire
Devil Lettuce
Well-Known Member
I went with the room-within-a-room for my grow lab and it's completely silent. The walls and ceiling are framed and insulated with soundproof/fireproof insulation and then drywalled over.....even if I crank up my fans to the max, it's completely silent outside my room when it's all sealed up.
Devil Lettuce
Well-Known Member
This is simply not true, not sure where you are getting this. Rockwool or high-density fiberglass is going to absorb and dampen much more sound than simple pink insulation and has been extensively proven to do so.......it's basic physics. Other than material type, the two important parameters when it comes to controlling sound waves is thickness and density. Corning 503 or Roxul Safe n Sound is 3-4x as dense as a slab of regular fluffy pink insulation of equal thickness.
There is a reason the stuff is used extensively in recording studios and other sound-sensitive applications...it works, and extremely well! If it didn't, I wouldn't have used it to design my grow room and home recording studio which are right next to each other and need to be completely isolated acoustically. Anyhow, there is a ton of great information and data which supports this on all of the recording and home audio forums.
Here is a chart with different insulating materials and their sounds absorption data. You can clearly see that Roxul or similar high-density soundproofing insulation performs much better across every sound frequency range than an equally thick portion of fluffy pink fiberglass.
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm
Devil Lettuce
Well-Known Member
The data speaks for itself, but the the real-life test is easy to do. All walls in my basement are insulated using 3" Roxul Safe N Sound, while all the upstairs walls are are insulated with regular pink insulation of the same thickness. Same thickness of drywall on both levels. The difference in the amount of sound that passes through the walls between room is PROFOUND. Downstairs, if you put 2 people in adjoining rooms and close the door, they would have to yell to be able to have a conversation through the wall. Upstairs, the two guest bedrooms share a wall and you can hear someone whispering in the next room.
Sorry for the long-winded response, but I have some expertise in this area and did not want people buying into pink insulation being just as good as Roxul or other high density soundproofing insulation because it simply isn't true. They are totally different products desinged for completely different purposes. Fluffy pink stuff was designed for the sole purpose of thermal insulation. The insulating materials of which I speak are designed specifically for acoustic insulation. These materials are fantastic options for controlling grow room sound and staying safe, and everyone should look at using them. The added bonus of many of these types of insulation is that they are also fire retardant, making them ideal for use in grow room applications. Where I live, a bag of Roxul Safe n Sound is only $10 more than a bad of crappy fluffy stuff, making it a no-brainer for anyone serious about keeping quiet.
Sorry for the long-winded response, but I have some expertise in this area and did not want people buying into pink insulation being just as good as Roxul or other high density soundproofing insulation because it simply isn't true. They are totally different products desinged for completely different purposes. Fluffy pink stuff was designed for the sole purpose of thermal insulation. The insulating materials of which I speak are designed specifically for acoustic insulation. These materials are fantastic options for controlling grow room sound and staying safe, and everyone should look at using them. The added bonus of many of these types of insulation is that they are also fire retardant, making them ideal for use in grow room applications. Where I live, a bag of Roxul Safe n Sound is only $10 more than a bad of crappy fluffy stuff, making it a no-brainer for anyone serious about keeping quiet.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Well, that's incorrect. Look online at the data from the NRC in Canada. Biggest acoustic lab in north america. Then stop by forums where professional acoustic designers hang out. Gearslutz, JohnLSayers, AVSForum. You will see there are entire threads on insulation.
You are comparing surface response data (NR coefficient) ON a wall, but it's a different environment IN a wall. The data is out there, and it says use standard fiberglass insulation and quit wasting your cash on exotic insulation.
EDIT: Just read your previous post and yes, you are way off what hard lab data clearly describes.
You are comparing surface response data (NR coefficient) ON a wall, but it's a different environment IN a wall. The data is out there, and it says use standard fiberglass insulation and quit wasting your cash on exotic insulation.
EDIT: Just read your previous post and yes, you are way off what hard lab data clearly describes.
Devil Lettuce
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm, then what about my whole upstairs/downstairs comparison then? The proof is in the pudding so they say. Like I said, the difference is DRASTIC....same thickness of insulation, same thickness of drywall. Downstairs (with Roxul) you have to yell between rooms to have a conversation....upstairs, with the pink stuff, you can whisper.
This isn't my mind playing tricks on me, so I'm calling BS on what you are saying. My uncle is also a contractor who swears by Roxul when doing renos for clients who want quiet, so that should also say something. Anyhow, saying pink crap = specialty acoustic insulation with no data or proof to back it up is just silly......you said so yourself, you are just going on what someone else has said. I have used the stuff extensively and know very well the difference that it makes and what it can do. have you tried firsthand? or are you just regurgitating things your read without trying it yourself?
This isn't my mind playing tricks on me, so I'm calling BS on what you are saying. My uncle is also a contractor who swears by Roxul when doing renos for clients who want quiet, so that should also say something. Anyhow, saying pink crap = specialty acoustic insulation with no data or proof to back it up is just silly......you said so yourself, you are just going on what someone else has said. I have used the stuff extensively and know very well the difference that it makes and what it can do. have you tried firsthand? or are you just regurgitating things your read without trying it yourself?
Rrog
Well-Known Member
The proof is in the lab data which is specific, reproducible and detailed.
Individual jobs that you or your uncle did are fine, but lab data is true data. There are hundreds of variable on the jobsite. Was one wall sealed better? Were there other framing connections creating flanking pathways into adjacent surfaces? Wood floor vs. slab? Many variables.
So we go to a lab where these variables can be either removed, or known and measured. Then we get a clean picture of what is going on.
There are other things that affect isolation a lot more than insulation. The mass of the wall (double drywall vs. single), if the wall is decoupled, and if the drywall is damped with a damping compound. Any of these items might be expected to add 10 STC points or so to a structure. The insulation would only get 3-5 points.
Individual jobs that you or your uncle did are fine, but lab data is true data. There are hundreds of variable on the jobsite. Was one wall sealed better? Were there other framing connections creating flanking pathways into adjacent surfaces? Wood floor vs. slab? Many variables.
So we go to a lab where these variables can be either removed, or known and measured. Then we get a clean picture of what is going on.
There are other things that affect isolation a lot more than insulation. The mass of the wall (double drywall vs. single), if the wall is decoupled, and if the drywall is damped with a damping compound. Any of these items might be expected to add 10 STC points or so to a structure. The insulation would only get 3-5 points.
Devil Lettuce
Well-Known Member
You've yet to show any data showing that specialized insulation is no better than fluffy pink stuff. The walls were all framed at the same time, exact same drywall, thickness, compound, etc. Walls were built within days of each other to the same standards, just different insulation.
I'm not talking a difference of a couple of decibels, I'm talking a MASSIVE difference. Yelling vs whispering. And I'm sorry, you have no experience with the stuff or have tried it for yourself.....you are just regurgitating what others of said and that acoustic insulation makes no difference. I know first hand, that without doubt, this is not true......the small potential variables that you mentioned are not factors here, and even if they were, they could not explain the huge difference. I run a recording studio in the other half of my basement, I could easily run a test signal through the wall to my SPL meter both upstairs and downstairs and post the results to prove my point.
I'm not talking a difference of a couple of decibels, I'm talking a MASSIVE difference. Yelling vs whispering. And I'm sorry, you have no experience with the stuff or have tried it for yourself.....you are just regurgitating what others of said and that acoustic insulation makes no difference. I know first hand, that without doubt, this is not true......the small potential variables that you mentioned are not factors here, and even if they were, they could not explain the huge difference. I run a recording studio in the other half of my basement, I could easily run a test signal through the wall to my SPL meter both upstairs and downstairs and post the results to prove my point.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Dude. You are talking ghetto data.
Google the NRC of Canada, first of all. They have better equipment than you or your uncle. It's considered by many to be the finest acoustics lab on the planet. Certainly North America. Look for test reports IR 761 and IR 693.
Compare similar walls with the only variable being the insulation type. Look at frequency bands below 125Hz. You will see standard fiberglass has the edge over mineral wool (Roxul). This is why people designing high isolation environments spec standard fiberglass. Superior bass isolation.
As I mentioned before, all of this is largely meaningless. The factors of mass, damping and decoupling are far more impactful than the presence of absorption (the insulation).
Google the NRC of Canada, first of all. They have better equipment than you or your uncle. It's considered by many to be the finest acoustics lab on the planet. Certainly North America. Look for test reports IR 761 and IR 693.
Compare similar walls with the only variable being the insulation type. Look at frequency bands below 125Hz. You will see standard fiberglass has the edge over mineral wool (Roxul). This is why people designing high isolation environments spec standard fiberglass. Superior bass isolation.
As I mentioned before, all of this is largely meaningless. The factors of mass, damping and decoupling are far more impactful than the presence of absorption (the insulation).
Devil Lettuce
Well-Known Member
My point is that WITH EXPERIENCE with the product, it makes a significant difference. They can prove whatever they want in a lab, as with most things, theory doesn't always pan out in real life. I just have a hard time with someone telling me the stuff doesn't make a difference when they have never even seen the stuff in action, while I stand next to a wall filled with it and can hear perfectly well that it works?
Ghetto data? I have $2000 studio monitors and a $300 professional SPL meter. I'm pretty sure that I could get some reasonable real-world results with that.....like I said, I'm not talking about a decibel or two here. The sound transmission through the pink isulated wall is literally double if not more. Saying that any measurements I take are invalid is just being stubborn and silly on your part. Can't argue with a brick wall, so I'm done here. I'll let the readers in here decide if they want to use a product that can help them based on the opinion of those that are familiar with it and employ it, or if they want to trust the armchair opinion of someone who has never seen it used in practice.
I just checked, the stuff costs 10% more than the pink crap where I live. For the fire-retardant properties alone, using this stuff in a grow room makes financial sense. With the drastic reduction is sound transmission, it's a no-brainer. I have a recording studio within 8 feet of my 10x4' grow room with 1200 in lights and 700 CFM in fans along with pumps and other equipment.......there is total silence. Again, hands-on, real-world application results will always tell much more than a simple data sheet will.
Ghetto data? I have $2000 studio monitors and a $300 professional SPL meter. I'm pretty sure that I could get some reasonable real-world results with that.....like I said, I'm not talking about a decibel or two here. The sound transmission through the pink isulated wall is literally double if not more. Saying that any measurements I take are invalid is just being stubborn and silly on your part. Can't argue with a brick wall, so I'm done here. I'll let the readers in here decide if they want to use a product that can help them based on the opinion of those that are familiar with it and employ it, or if they want to trust the armchair opinion of someone who has never seen it used in practice.
I just checked, the stuff costs 10% more than the pink crap where I live. For the fire-retardant properties alone, using this stuff in a grow room makes financial sense. With the drastic reduction is sound transmission, it's a no-brainer. I have a recording studio within 8 feet of my 10x4' grow room with 1200 in lights and 700 CFM in fans along with pumps and other equipment.......there is total silence. Again, hands-on, real-world application results will always tell much more than a simple data sheet will.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
What do you want? You're suspending the laws of physics because you don't agree. The above is so flatly wrong it's not worth replying to. A 20+ million dollar acoustics research facility. Hopefully others reading this will do themselves a favor and:
Use the cheapest insulation available
Understand that insulation doesn't do much compared to more drywall, decoupling that drywall or damping that drywall.
Devil Lettuce
Well-Known Member
Shouldn't you be somewhere else online submitting reviews for other products that you have never tried or have experience with?
Devil Lettuce
Well-Known Member
Real life experience and results > unexperienced armchair expert's opinion. And you still haven't shown this data you speak of proving that there is no difference between pink insulation and acoustic insulation, so it's really just words and nonsense on your part.
My EXPERIENCE: used pink insulation in grow room walls first, could not record in the next room due to very loud hum from fans and lights. Swapped out for Roxul high density Safe N Sound, and now it's dead silent, that was the only change made. I don't need a data sheet to tell me that that stuff works, and extremely well.
My EXPERIENCE: used pink insulation in grow room walls first, could not record in the next room due to very loud hum from fans and lights. Swapped out for Roxul high density Safe N Sound, and now it's dead silent, that was the only change made. I don't need a data sheet to tell me that that stuff works, and extremely well.