Questions on Plant Counts

Other than getting good information out, prob not. In case you didn't notice, the page I referenced was full of links to the law, what the qualifying conditions were, and a number of articles on the nuts and bolts of the MMMA. Was useful information and exactly the type of stuff the poster was looking for. Sorry about the mess with Bloody, but there are just some folks that would rather cause drama than help patients with information. I don't think that will happen again anytime in the near future, in the meantime I'll continue to provide information to those that ask.

Dr. Bob

Some reasonably believe the 2.5 oz & 12 plant limits referenced in section 4 "Protections for the Medical Use of Marihuana." refer to transport or "legal" public possession limits. Furthermore, the language of this entire section of MMMA is clearly aimed at law enforcement ("shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner"), not the patient/caregiver as they'd like you to believe (clear conflict of interest). Finally, as a farmer and educated individual I know it would be impossible for any horticulturist to provide uninterrupted access to 2.5oz of meds per 10 days (permissible by law) to their patients bound by such an absolute view of the law. Hell a three month cure of dried flowers alone would put a patient/caregiver literally 10 times over their limit.

Overages simply do not "legally" exist given this LEO view of the law, yet the provisioning centers being sold legislatively right now will literally rely on such from patients/caregivers bound by the exact same MMMA/law for their mere existence ...

@Dr. Bob As you harbor such an absolute or lawyered view of our law, what guidance do you give to your patients growing their own medicine so they do not somehow inadvertently become felons in their own home in your view?

Good questions...

My recommendations to patients are not to plant the maximum they are allowed, but to try and rotate the harvest to give 1-1.5 x the amount of the anticipated need. In other words plan the harvest as best as possible. Under the law, there is no way to have a three months supply (as with an outdoor grow) fall under Section 4. It may be possible to justify it under section 8, but that requires a charge and a court case to prove the 3 prongs of section 8.

One issue that is a common thread in these discussions is 'I want to grow outdoors so therefore I will have more than 2.5 ounces'. The problem with this is that an outdoor grow is an option, not a requirement and there are other ways to do it that would get you closer to the legal limits outlined in section 4. Not to say you can't do it, or section 8 could not be viewed as allowing it, but you have to make your case and there will be hard questions from the prosecution to overcome as to why you made the choices you made.

To address your issue of it would be 'impossible' to stay in the limits, there are many that do. If you exceed them, there are a couple of problems. How much do you actually need? You don't get the 2.5 ounces presumed medical use with section 8, you have to justify every gram. Second what is your supporting evidence to use 'juicing' vs another method if you are trying to justify extra meds because you 'juice'.

Finally, I think one of the reasons they are getting a dispensary bill together, which hopefully will be law this session, is that they acknowledge overages go hand in hand with having 'enough' to meet medical needs. The extra income would be cool too for the caregivers with overages. The current law we have complicates overages and income, so correcting that by giving a legal outlet is a move in the right direction, it just isn't law YET.

This is why the act has a provision to be modified, one example is the widespread support in the legislature to modify the act to allow medibles. This is to prevent overreaching courts from reading things into the law, hence the current status of edibles.

Dr. Bob

Just to make sure it is very clear, 2.5 ounces is not a legal limit to end the discussion. It is the 'legal limit' to use section 4. More could and commonly is justified under section 8 but requires legal work to do so, expert witnesses, etc. But it is an extremely bad idea to ignore section 4 and base all your grows and such under a presumption you can make it fly under section 8.

No amount of legalese, precedent or courtroom procedure as it relates to this game as it is currently being played theoretically with the "letter of the law" justifies literally violating or being disrespectful of the "spirit of the law". The spirit of MMMA is beyond a doubt the immunity of Michigan patients and caregivers from the criminal prohibition of MJ currently considered a schedule I controlled substance. The means simply do not justify the ends under the general rule of law. Furthermore your appreciation and understanding of what is required to produce quality and effective medication for your patients is woefully lacking and possibly even injurious.

Do you recommend the use of CBD oils to your patients and why?

TheMan13 said:

No amount of legalese, precedent or courtroom procedure as it relates to this game as it is currently being played theoretically with the "letter of the law" justifies literally violating or being disrespectful of the "spirit of the law". The spirit of MMMA is beyond a doubt the immunity of Michigan patients and caregivers from the criminal prohibition of MJ currently considered a schedule I controlled substance. The means simply do not justify the ends under the general rule of law. Furthermore your appreciation and understand of what is required to produce quality and effective medication for your patients is woefully lacking and possibly even injurious.

Do you recommend the use of CBD oils to your patients and why?

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Well I answered your question accurately, then you went in another direction about 'spirit of the law' and 'schedule 1', neither of which have anything to do with the question you asked or I responded to. I guess you'll have to continue to answer your own questions. Beyond that, yes, I do recommend cbd's. I don't recommend oils.

Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob said:

Well I answered your question accurately, then you went in another direction about 'spirit of the law' and 'schedule 1', neither of which have anything to do with the question you asked or I responded to. I guess you'll have to continue to answer your own questions. Beyond that, yes, I do recommend cod's.

Dr. Bob

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How do you recommend they produce/procure CBD oils?

Dr. Bob said:

Finally, I think one of the reasons they are getting a dispensary bill together, which hopefully will be law this session, is that they acknowledge overages go hand in hand with having 'enough' to meet medical needs. The extra income would be cool too for the caregivers with overages.

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That would be cool alright, but the reality of the situation is that these dispensaries will be growing their own meds

buckaroo bonzai said:

this is what going on at riu they are locking threads and deleting them fast purDr. Bob



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LocationMt. Pleasant, MI <<<<<dr bobs place


Sent Today, 10:39 AM


BTW, it appears as though your entire existence over at RIU has vanished.... man all those useful posts gone.

And seriously, how are those federal charges going for you over in Musk? Roll on your buddies yet?


^^^^^^^^^^wtf???
This was sent to a member by the REAL dr bob....today

Not his polite homogenized interweb personality he uses here to gather info on people......

BE FUCKING WARE of this guy.....you'all have been warned


This is just one of MANY i have read-

Threats.....and such

You gonna threaten me bob?

Do you know how many of these i have read from you.....

Are you still using your hacker team to gather folks IP addresses.....?


POS!

Any time i see you post to a newbie im gonna thro this up-

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Eh? Was this sent to you? Who is this in reference to?

Can you spell this out for me buck?

TheMan13 said:

How do you recommend they produce/procure CBD oils?

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I don't recommend oils for most. I don't discourage their use for cancer patients as long as they are not looking to them to 'cure' their cancers. I do support them as a quality of life improvement.

st0wandgrow said:

That would be cool alright, but the reality of the situation is that these dispensaries will be growing their own meds

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Don't know, I've not seen the final version of the bill. They are still working on it. I hope they do continue with the current provision to allow overage sales. Still a long ways between here and a signature though.

Dr. Bob said:

I don't recommend oils for most. I don't discourage their use for cancer patients as long as they are not looking to them to 'cure' their cancers. I do support them as a quality of life improvement.

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Do you know how much dried flower is required for each daily dose of cannabis oil and what would be necessary to provide an uninterrupted supply? Isn't the production and possession of oils currently considered "illegal" from the get?

Yes, I do know. Go back to my previous discussion about "choices" and "requirements". Are you suggesting patients are 'required' to use oils or make a 'choice' to use oils? Are you prepared to do a section 8 on you 'choice' to use oils?

Dr. Bob

Oh Bob.....

Dr. Bob said:

Yes, I do know. Go back to my previous discussion about "choices" and "requirements". Are you suggesting patients are 'required' to use oils or make a 'choice' to use oils? Are you prepared to do a section 8 on you 'choice' to use oils?

Dr. Bob

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I'd prefer to stay out of that game see, because like most of us, my family and I cannot afford it. I've used RSO caps at a gram per day to stop using Narcos in the past. Actually I cannot count the amount of times that you and your buddies would consider me a pretty serious criminal along the way, but in reality I'm just a patient responsibly looking for relief and trying to help others do the same. The legal threat and jeopardy I've had to witness dozens of law abiding citizens acting as caregivers endure to help others is indefensible, as their actions become as honorable as those I fought alongside of in the military. Trust me, we're not the criminals profiteering here ...

Well that is great, and thank you for your service to your country. If a patient is using their meds for themselves and has a good reason to do what they are doing, they have a shot at a section 8 if they are questioned. I've supported many in that situation and will continue to do so. Glad to hear of your success getting off norcos, that is a primary reason I got involved in MMJ anyhow.

But if you do want to 'stay out of the game' as you say, section 4 is the way to go.

Dr. Bob

Cory and trevor said:

Oh Bob.....

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Oh whatever. Just out of curiosity, is there anything I can say you won't glaze over or put up a negative comment about? Might be nice for you to contribute something positive once in awhile.

Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob said:

Oh whatever. Just out of curiosity, is there anything I can say you won't glaze over or put up a negative comment about? Might be nice for you to contribute something positive once in awhile.

Dr. Bob

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Ok. Quit defending a broken poorly written law,ie section 4.
Quit defending law enforcement. They are thieves with badges.

You make your living off of us... Symbiotic or parasitic?
Your choice

NurseNancy420 said:

Ok. Quit defending a broken poorly written law,ie section 4.
Quit defending law enforcement. They are thieves with badges.

You make your living off of us... Symbiotic or parasitic?
Your choice

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I defend nothing, simply deal with reality as it is enforced on my patients. And I most certainly don't live off you or anyone else, I live off the fact I worked my ass off to become a doctor and I provide a service you and others need. Don't like it? You work as I did and do it your way. Until then, I'm here helping folks that come to me for a variety of medical services. I don't apologize for doing the job I was trained to do.

Funny you get all huffy if anyone suggests you provide meds for cost, because you work so hard to grow them, yet you call others that work hard 'parasites' because they make their living off their labor and education. Can't have it both ways.

Dr. Bob

You sign a piece of worthless paper.
Get over yourself.