Proof of the existence of an intelligent Creator and what His purpose of mankind is

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
Okay, to make it even simpler.

Philosophy begins with questions and tries to work towards answers.

Religion begins with an answer and then tries to make it fit all the questions.


I didn't try to Jam anything.. Philosophy and Religion are the Same Thing in principle.... of course Philosphy doesn't require a God but neither does Religion, It doesn't require having a God or any being, it is simply a cultural or individual way of life....I'm sure this is the only way you interpret religion but religion encompasses much more than Idols, God/gods, & Worship..

I'm simply stating what is and not What I wish to assume as, and I understand Religion to be more than Benny Hinn broadcasting into your T.v set

here let me show you, I'll take something that is known and let me know if it still remains true


Religion takes what is known, and then attempts to interpolate between that which is known, and the unknown. It requires no deities, idols, or worship of any kind. It is simply the evaluation of potentials.

but this is not correct because all religions require a deity, idol, Worship and isn't based on the conceived potential.. Correct.. is that what you are saying...?

if So, Ok, you Win.. I submit to your All knowingness too,
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
Ok, I can no longer further this discussion because you are correct.. Man said I have the answer to all things (that was the Religion), then man said Why did I come to that Answer (that was the Philosophy), and then man said..HOw is this answer possible...(that led to the Science)

Yep, I stand corrected, you had the answer all Along..

Thanks for clearing that Up :-P

:peace: & Good Night




Okay, to make it even simpler.

Philosophy begins with questions and tries to work towards answers.

Religion begins with an answer and then tries to make it fit all the questions.
Just for Comical humor

Religion begins with questions and tries to work towards answers.

Philosophy begins with an answer and then tries to make it fit all the questions

examples could entail, but this was just comical in point, you are Correct..,

:peace:
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
You forgot the last item.

Science looked at religion and said "What a load of horse shit. Now let's ditch this fairy tale bullshit and find out how things really work."

If you are really that thick that you don't understand how religion starts with "God/Aliens/MushroomPeople did it" and then tries to slap that on everything with not a single shred of evidence, well, I'm just glad I'll never run into you in real life.

Oh, have fun just substituting a word into this post, just so you can get your post count up. Someone in a hurry to give neg rep?

Ok, I can no longer further this discussion because you are correct.. Man said I have the answer to all things (that was the Religion), then man said Why did I come to that Answer (that was the Philosophy), and then man said..HOw is this answer possible...(that led to the Science)

Yep, I stand corrected, you had the answer all Along..

Thanks for clearing that Up :-P

:peace: & Good Night
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
You forgot the last item.

Science looked at religion and said "What a load of horse shit. Now let's ditch this fairy tale bullshit and find out how things really work."
Yeah, Right, Fairy Tale Bullshit and this is how things Really Work..

:peace:
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
religion is a pre scientific explanation of mans surroundings.....

Now we know better.... at least some of us do.
Aye yi yi yi YI..........ok CJ, prove it then. SCIENCE, as "you" know it, sure as hell has yet to do so. "At least some of us do"...you know what CJ? Mankind knows essentially NOTHING. OUCH.
Mankind prides themselves on knowing MUCH.
"You" CJ, pride yourself so much with your one and two-liner answers that you feel are so intelligent and close the case, when you don't even know what the case to be. WHY? Because it's all about YOU.
I notice that you always type G*D....which tells me right away you are Jewish. I've never seen it from any other non-believer. That is just a silly... prideful, superstitious act on your part. Prove me otherwise wrong and type the word. Otherwise spare the world with your two liner thesis here and there of religions superstitions.
Your words here.
The theory of the big bang is just that... our best theory. Also the big bang is a descriptive term of the event, not the cause of the event.

Big difference.... we are still peeling the onion.

Keep flailing tho.... it's entertaining (grabs popcorn)

Learn from your own words. Bingo!!! That's ALL "it" is......mankind's "best" theory. Mankind IS failing and I do believe you find it entertaining.
While you are peeling the onion, others are able to eat their popcorn and just live ascertaining the answer you will NEVER get...solely because you are closing your mind to the endless possibilities.
You again have it completely backwards. :lol:

Atheism isn't easy..... it's a very hard way to live. There is little comfort in NOT having an afterlife. It takes a true mental discipline to stay in a logical and objective mode.

Religion is the EASY way out.

__________________
Again CJ, PROVE IT. You can't even possibly step into the mind of another and make that assessment. Science, as man knows it, will never be able to completely know another man's mind. There is a discipline to eating popcorn while you are merely peeling that onion.

While you are content with what man is/has proven or will prove, other men are more in tune with "the answer." You can't handle what the answer is.....scientific as you think yourself/others to be.
I recall a post of yours saying, "I stand by my posts..always have." That is pure foolishness when your biggest claim to fame is that science will answer everything. You, nor any man, can ANSWER "It." You can only be impressed with what you know to be. You are impressed with your "discoveries."...so much so to the point that you get lost in yourselves as being omnipotent.....or at least, at some stage, becoming so.
It does not matter how long mankind continues to exist, they will NEVER EVER have all the answers.....but they will continue to be impressed with what they have found.
I was pressed over and over to state what I believe according to the Bible....simply so it could be misconstrued, rearranged and put forth as inconceivable......SIMPLY "because" it cannot be proven. What you and all the most intelligent scientists will never comprehend is that even with all of your knowledge, current and possible, you ONLY impress yourselves....BAAA, BAAA.
Sorry, I'm only human. You over and over mock what you know little about. You are that lost sheep. We all are, just in varying degrees.
So long as mankind exists, we will progress, no question.......which only leads me to as stated before--ask an infinity of questions. And they will be different from yours and numerous others. NONE of those questions are wrong or right.......they are just questions, with DIFFERENT answers according to the person asking.
The way in which God appears to me is not the way He appears to the next. The way He answers my questions, different from the way he appeals to the next with the answer.
We all need more than what we will ever possibly get believing in science as man knows it or will EVER know it to be. We all need each other for balance.
Technology is not so impressive to me. I see it more as an evil so often that is used to cause the downfall of man, while you see it as a "solution."
With every "cure" ......what have they really cured? They haven't even developed a cure for the common cold. Smart as they are, answering with the big bang theory (impressive:rolleyes:), scientists can formulate what is, on the surface, impressive, CAN'T even create a damn pill someone can pop and just miraculously quit smoking. That's pretty shitty....they can make bombs that will completely destroy nations, but not bring upon simple solutions. You know why?
Because mankind (as a whole) is EVIL. We want all the knowledge, all the power AND all the glory. We'll never have it CJ......we'll just keep impressing ourselves with what we do have.......and strive for more, MORE, MORE. We'll kill ourselves trying to do it our way. Isn't that evident?
No religion is perfect, or even remotely close. What has been exposed to my inner intellect (which I'm sure you will mock) is that God has ALLOWED circumstances......to show the individual REASON.
As we don't all have the sameness in any single thing to an exact imprint, we all have stances misunderstood...even to us.
That will NEVER EVER change....until we meet the creator. Mankind isn't ready for that.
Only then will everything miraculously have an answer.
Until then, we will day by day, "gradually" impress ourselves and one another until we destroy every single thing that surrounds us--as we know it.
And all the worlds love will grow cold.....the more and more we THINK we know, the more we destroy ourselves.
There is MUCH to be said about humbling oneself. KNOWING you don't have all the answers keeps you enlightened to hear/see/seek truth....to cross a boundary mere man is incapable of crossing with his "intellectual" mind.

Jesus replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.

CJ, it doesn't matter that you don't believe that....it just doesn't matter.

NO man has that faith.......not EVEN THAT SMALL.
No man, according to science even uses more than what? 8% of that capacity (as scientist know it:rolleyes:) These people are our society genius. I'm still not impressed. And if I live to be the age where I see man use 100% of it (as science of man defines it)-----I STILL WON'T BE IMPRESSED.
You on the other hand, along with most, will be MESMERIZED. LOL, then science will have to figure out how to un foil the troubles with turning society away from being robots.....or will they? Will that be what was the goal for them? Egads, I COULD get crazy with that one alone.
It doesn't matter HOW much you "prove" to a believer.
They have seen more than you or any scientist, or all scientists combined throughout history, can POSSIBLY fathom........all from just having faith not even as small as a mustard seed.
Prove me wrong CJ.....you can't.


 

CrackerJax

New Member
Babs, you aren't capable of logical thinking , so nothing CAN be explained to you. I have posted the very SIMPLE and immutable FLAWS in religious thinking MANY TIMES, and yet, it's still a complete surprise to you. :roll:

You have more than the problem of accepting myths as reality. It runs a bit deeper.
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
He's never said science will explain everything. Look at my signature for a humorous, but accurate viewpoint of science. Science will just keep on going because there will always be new things for it to understand.

Religion has a history of holding back change, although the same can be said of most political structures as well.

There have been bright spots, though, as despite the shameful treatment of Galileo, it was with the blessings of the Church that Mendel was able to do the research that opened the door to the field of genetics.

And strangely enough Islam contributed heavily to the study of mathematics in Mohammed's time.

I don't think Evangelicals have done anything much except babble and throw their money at con men though :P
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
Babs, you aren't capable of logical thinking , so nothing CAN be explained to you. I have posted the very SIMPLE and immutable FLAWS in religious thinking MANY TIMES, and yet, it's still a complete surprise to you. :roll:

You have more than the problem of accepting myths as reality. It runs a bit deeper.
LOL CJ....and that's because YOU said so....and YOU are logical, LMAO. You couldn't even LOGICALLY understand my stance on not accepting "that way of life" in my neighborhood......you don't get to talk about logic....you just keep throwing out the word.
Notice you don't even take the time to absorb(because you are self-absorbed)...where's the logic there?
I said over and over.....religion is more than just flawed........but that seems to come as a complete surprise......"to you."
See how hard it was for you just now with your response to be a proud "logical" atheist vs. a "ridiculously out there" believer, you skipped a note......that note could have been the link.
.......later.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
It does not matter how long mankind continues to exist, they will NEVER EVER have all the answers.....but they will continue to be impressed with what they have found.
What you and all the most intelligent scientists will never comprehend is that even with all of your knowledge, current and possible, you ONLY impress yourselves....BAAA, BAAA.
...That is the point of science. It's impossible to know all there is to know about everything. Your blind acceptance of ignorance of science is astounding. I'm not joking!

How can you sit there and bash science, you're using a fucking computer on the fucking internet, you tool! You remind me of this guy, go check him out on youtube, I might have actually just made you a best friend;

www.youtube.com/venomfangx

So long as mankind exists, we will progress, no question.......
Well that's a huge assumption right there now isn't it?

NONE of those questions are wrong or right.......they are just questions, with DIFFERENT answers according to the person asking.The way in which God appears to me is not the way He appears to the next. The way He answers my questions, different from the way he appeals to the next with the answer.
You still don't get it do you? Science does not work that way! I really do not know how much more clearly I can say it... Science is science because the results are the same for everyone. If you can interpret something one way, then someone else interprets the same thing a completely different way, that is not science. That's why creationism isn't science, and that's why intelligent design isn't science. Why is that really so hard to understand? Interpretations of facts are not science!

We all need more than what we will ever possibly get believing in science as man knows it or will EVER know it to be.
No we don't. What is this thing we seem to need? Why can't we get it through science? Prove it.

Technology is not so impressive to me.
...yeah, you don't use a car (mechanics, engineering), live in a house (architecture, design, mathematics), take a shower daily (sanitation), use the telephone (electricity, satellites), use the internet (electricity, satellites), utilize almost any food product you can think of via your local grocery store (thank Pasteur for that), wear clothes (design), speak (lenguistics), read/write (education)... your ignorance, blatant disregard for the men and women who dedicated their entire lives to be able to give you the things you enjoy on a daily basis, and your uncanny ability to take it all for granted is astounding! Is it lonely up there on that pedestal?

With every "cure" ......what have they really cured? They haven't even developed a cure for the common cold. Smart as they are, answering with the big bang theory (impressive) scientists can formulate what is, on the surface, impressive, CAN'T even create a damn pill someone can pop and just miraculously quit smoking. That's pretty shitty....they can make bombs that will completely destroy nations, but not bring upon simple solutions. You know why?
Because mankind (as a whole) is EVIL.
It's not because mankind is evil, it's because of conflicts of interest. People make more money waging war, people derive more power when they win battles in wars, and guess what the single most common cause of war throughout human history was... go ahead Babs, guess...

the more and more we THINK we know, the more we destroy ourselves.
Keep telling yourself that. Knowledge is the key to human expansion and ultimately human survival. Go ahead and sit there in the dark with your fingers in your ears (believe), watch how far it gets you.

KNOWING you don't have all the answers keeps you enlightened to hear/see/seek truth....
Babs, this is the third time you've accused our side of this bullshit. You are the only one claiming to know all the answers. You even admitted as much in this exact same post I'm responding to... "they will NEVER EVER have all the answers". Science is progression. Sure we might get things wrong, but guess what, that tells us what the answer is NOT because it's been TESTED. We can then move on and find a more accurate answer that does work. Religion fills in the answer, then hundreds of years later when it's discovered that that answer is total bullshit, you idiots STILL cling to it because "it's the word of God!". There is nothing that retarded in science that binds any one particular theory or even a law to an individuals personal belief system. The big bang gets scrapped for a new, better, more accurate theory? FUCKIN' GREAT! You know why? Becuase that means we're that much closer to finding out the answer! Can you say the same for your belief in God? Of course not, even if God HIMSELF as you perceive him to be came down from heaven, TOLD YOU PERSONALLY he is NOT God and the universe does NOT work the way you've been led to believe it does your entire life, I'd bet you STILL wouldn't believe it... You wouldn't believe it if you heard it from the diety himself... You'd probably "rationalize" it by saying it was some kind of a demon or something in the image of God sent by Satan to trick you into not believing or some other retarded shit... Take a good look, be honest. Is there anything at all, even GOD HIMSELF, that would show you that religion is bullshit? Or are you already that far gone?
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
Why wait for answers when they've all been answered by primitive desert ppl high on vitamin deficiencies????
CJ..this about he ump something time I've heard you state this, do we have some historical data to prove this..idk, because our present diet account for the lack of proper nutrients and vitamin intake..supplemental vitamins are just that supplemental, meaning our body does and never did or will produce those vitamins, they are useful but not needed for the proper functioning of our system.. However, these vitamins are found in nature, mostly in fruits/vegetables as well as meats... So what you are saying that historical mans diet didn't consist primarily of fruits, vegetables, bread & supplemented with meat.. But consisted of ding dongs, cupcakes, & potato chips, therefore they were high on sugar..


Or Maybe that's the reason we lack the ability to think properly because we lack the proper nutrition..

I've heard of pre historic man dying from an infected tooth, but never no indications of a lack of supplemental vitamins as the cause of any ailments...may that's what all the other historical figures lacked that gave us our Art, Poetry, Philosophy, Paintings, Sculptures and so On.. I'm not saying you .might not be right, I've just never heard of this reasoning for why historical man thought the way they did..Maybe malnutrition, but not the lack of supplemental vitamins..idk
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
CJ..this about he ump something time I've heard you state this, do we have some historical data to prove this..idk, because our present diet account for the lack of proper nutrients and vitamin intake..supplemental vitamins are just that supplemental, meaning our body does and never did or will produce those vitamins, they are useful but not needed for the proper functioning of our system.. However, these vitamins are found in nature, mostly in fruits/vegetables as well as meats... So what you are saying that historical mans diet didn't consist primarily of fruits, vegetables, bread & supplemented with meat.. But consisted of ding dongs, cupcakes, & potato chips, therefore they were high on sugar..


Or Maybe that's the reason we lack the ability to think properly because we lack the proper nutrition..

I've heard of pre historic man dying from an infected tooth, but never no indications of a lack of supplemental vitamins as the cause of any ailments...may that's what all the other historical figures lacked that gave us our Art, Poetry, Philosophy, Paintings, Sculptures and so On.. I'm not saying you .might not be right, I've just never heard of this reasoning for why historical man thought the way they did..Maybe malnutrition, but not the lack of supplemental vitamins..idk
I think Cracker was just trying to outline how stupid it is for Babs to say the stuff she's been saying...

She relies heavily on data that was derived from the very beginning of mankinds thinking mind, when we were at our most basic stage of thinking, instead of trust the actual accurate, testable, provable methods we have today.

I don't understand why someone would choose to believe ancient ANYTHING when modern science and modern technology has PROVEN it to be false... I simply don't get it..., it's gotta be the fear right?
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Yes.... all of these beliefs are from a ppl trying to explain their environment....as all religions seek to do.

So unless you are Jewish.... why cop that religion?

Know why? because that religion, more than ther rest which were skipped over, got to a place of real power.

If the Nordic G*DS were chosen by Constantine, you would be sitting here today telling me Odin and Thor are REAL.
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
but never no indications of a lack of supplemental vitamins as the cause of any ailments
I believe this is where you would say "FAIL"?

Not every environment man lived in would provide the necessary vitamins. That's why trade became very important to civilization.

Instead, here's a list of common diseases caused by vitamin deficiencies.

Rickets.
Scurvy.
Beriberi.
Goiter.
Pellagra.
Anemia.

Oddly enough, when searching for vitamin deficiencies in prehistoric man, one of the top hits was some creationist propaganda saying that evolution isn't possible because these vitamin deficiencies just make human skeletons look strange, and all the transitional fossils are just sick people.

Wow.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
That particular area has been studied thoroughly and the type of foods that the primitives ate back then were deficient in Vitamin B. One of the side effects of Vitamin B def, is hallucinations, both visual, and auditory.

There's ur Bible miracles..... malnutrition. It was quite common.
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
Fasting, sleep deprivation, and litany are three of the top tools of brainwashing.
Where did the CIA turn when doing research into it? Religion.
 
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